Be Excellent To Each Other

I think his son was sending out a secret code to unleash Jedwood on the protestors.

Libyan fighter jets land in Malta illegally (without clearance) and the pilots are immediatly detained. The pilots then reveal themselves to include senior colonels of the Libyan military, ordered to 'bombard' protestors. They then took the decision to ignore this order and fly off course, defecting and landing in Malta.

This is the only way the Army is there for the people. We need them to step up and take the side of the people

This is now confirmed on BBC.

Jesus christ, Mubarak was an amateur.

When your own UN Ambassador is appealing to them, your shit is fucked.

Libyan regime is hiring mercenaries from all over the place to attack their own people. Reports of artillery and air strikes on protestors - crowds of unarmed civilians. Bodies piling up in the streets of Tripoli. Reporters having little luck getting in. I've heard a report of 11 soldiers being shot by their superiors for refusing to fire on protestors, however I can't find anyone confirming this. Same for reports that the Egyptian army has announced that the border is open for all Libyans wishing to cross. Tunisians are also offering medical aid to anyone who can make it across the border, according to one Al Jazeera guest (I didn't catch his name).

Libyan ambassadors around the world are quitting and speaking to the media. Even their own deputy ambassador to the UN has very firmly condemned the attacks live on Al Jazeera, saying that he works for the people, not the regime, and has asked that Gaddafi be brought to the Hague for crimes against humanity, that the UN make Libya a no-fly zone, and that medical supplies to Benghazi, where the protests first started, be delivered and protected.

At least 250 killed today alone. Most European nations have condemned these atrocities, including the UK. The US has been quiet, however in this instance it's a lot harder to criticise them here as their relations with Libya have been very strained for decades. Italy is the notable exception, as they have not condemned the attacks, and have made some vague hints about fears of islamic extremism (if I interpret correctly - I may be mistaken though) instead. Italy buys about 20-30% of its oil from Libya, however, which seems to the obvious explanation for their reticence.

Now is surely the time for us to be stopping arms shipments to all these countries, not just the ones who've already started butchering innocent civilians. We couldn't stop the winds of change last time, and there's no reason to think we can now, even if it were the right thing to do.

I find it shocking and sad that a country's own army will attack it's own people. I'll go to sleep tonight praying that army leaders see sense and no more blood be lost

Been watching the Al Jazeera feed again. Grim stuff. This is the same government that massacred 1,700 prisoners after a riot in 1996. Astonished to find Western governments like ours thinking its okay to sell arms to such regimes because they haven't committed recent atrocities, yet surely they must realise the probability of such weaponry being used to suppress major internal dissent. So much for the gentle beckoning of them into the civilisation.

WHAT THE FUCK.

Jazeera have just shown a breaking news LIVE clip of Gaddafi on State TV. What is he doing? Is he making an angry speech? Is he reviewing troops? Is he signing papers? Is he saluting the flag?

No, he's playing with a white umbrella in a confused manner in what appears to be a camper van, in a manner that would make Father Dougal look as focused as Gary Kasparov.

Qatar has called on the UN Security Council to actually do something instead of just condemning. This could actually be significant as Qatar hosts Al Jazeera and is apparently more influential than you'd expect. Plus the fact that someone's stood up and said it might mean others follow suit.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the UN step in, to be honest, if not now then within the week.

He is gearing up for a rendition of singing in the rain

Well he does have a policeman on every corner so the stage is set.

UN won't do shit all talk no action. Condemn this & that pointless talking. Only the Libyan Army can now turn this around and smack Gaddafi in the face

It's an enormous step though. The minute the UN steps in to protect citizens from their government in one of these countries, the steady progression of disenchantment and protest will become a landslide.

We'll see what the morning brings us regarding reports of his fighters shooting at marchers. If that's true, then the UN may impose a no-fly zone - but that would be the absolute limit and even then they'd argue over it until it was moot. Everyone seems utterly paralysed at the moment, unable to decide what to do. To be fair, there's no easy solutions in their (and our) world of realpolitik.

If the Libyan army has been getting well paid by all that oil money then the turn-around smack-down might not come as quick as Egypts. This could be civil war. Also, the UN is there first and foremost to prevent countries invading each other. (Good job they didn't bomb us, eh? Phew.) Secondly they are there to protect populations during recognised civil war - and they're usually tardy and ineffectual at that. The UN has never been meant to step in to stop violent internal repression, that only happens when the country doing the repressing is seen as a direct and immediate threat to the stability or security of other countries.

True, true. This is why they didn't say much about Egypt; it's an enormous precedent to set, and as I understand it, the UN's policy has always been to leave internal conflicts alone as far as possible. And I suppose even if action were proposed, it would only take one country to veto it (hello China!). Perhaps I'm being overly dramatic. It does seem like some external action is going to come, though, this is much more extreme thant he Egypt thing, and there seems to be a lot more strong commentary from abroad than before.

I just caught a bit of Gaddafi's broadcast a minute ago. Bizarre. He seems like a kind of evil counterpart to Michael Jackson.



Yeah, you're right, on reflection, it's more likely that individual countries will quietly ship arms to militant groups and the like, and probably throw a few troublemakers over there to fight with whichever side they prefer. Of course, that's bound to wrap things up quickly and neatly.

The oil thing is perhaps key - speaking in heartless utilitarian terms, Egypt's importance in the political sense was more of a diplomatic/strategic issue, whereas Libya's is of resources. Allies can be found anywhere if you bargain enough, but resources exist where they exist. This is only going to get uglier.

Funny how you never saw them at the same parties...

They need to start playing Muse Uprising on the Libyan airwaves that will make the people rise. There seems to be a lot of top diplomats, chief minister & some army chiefs now condemning the killing of libya citizens. It can go two ways now & I hope it's not the civil war route

Speaking of which, I can't help but wonder how serious a concern this may become over the next few decades. The precursor to the UN, the League of Nations, failed miserably precisely because all it could do was tut disapprovingly (I remember writing an essay about it once actually, where I dismissed the act of condemnation as "frankly pathetic" in the face of aggression from a rogue state like Mussolini's Italy. Not bad for a 15 year old, and yes I am somewhat drunk, thank you) and impose economic sanctions which could quite easily be ignored.

Okay, the LoN was beset by other problems and vastly less powerful and respected than the UN (and it didn't have the same calibre of sister organisations like the WHO), but if conflicts within states continue to be more of an international concern than conflicts between states (which is hard to dismiss as we're clearly on the dawn of a vastly different age of communication, with even the most powerful nation on the planet being humiliated by an average soldier with some 50p DVD-Rs), the UN might need to meet to discuss whether the UN is actually enough.

SRSLY!

Man achieves victory using 'desert power', people held in grip of tyrant for a very long time, eventual departure of tyrant ensures values of freedom held so dear to the people that their future continues along a 'golden path'?

Gaddafi's been reading Dune!

The problem, of course, is that it then raises questions of who should decide what issues require intervention. I don't think China or the US would like us poking in their affairs, and even our successes (Kosovo, Sierra Leone) seem very selective. We've done fuckall during years of genocide in Sudan, for example. We deposed Saddam Hussain, but Mugabe's still going nutso in Zimbabwe.
But, internal disruption is very destabilising to the international system, so it's the kind of thing the UN ought to be looking at.

I'm afraid International Relations isn't my strong point (other than, of course World Government, with me as Lord Protector) so am reading your posts with interest. Keep them coming.

Still, lucky the UK don't look like complete hypocrites. It'd be awful if, say, the British PM was currently in Egypt, preparing the spend the next three days touring undemocratic Gulf states with eight of Britain's leading defence manufacturers.

unfuckingbelievable.

Col. Gadaffi (sp?) started speaking around 5 minutes ago. I can't have sound on at work (and headphones are too obvious..) so am relying on the BBC and other text sources.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

He's just promised to die on Libyan soil. I think Mubarak said something similar.

The BBC stream is brilliant:


EDIT: As brilliant as the words of someone responsible for using air strikes and artillery etc against his own people could be.

He is actually a bona fide lunatic, isn't he?

From who? The Libyans?

Graunaid stream even more bizaare:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/20 ... ve-updates

EDIT oh,and 'The number of committees will be increased from 23 to 30, he says, talking presumably about reforms to increase the power of local government.'

He's now promising a new administration and some role for his son, who will meet ambassadors and the media tomorrow.

Unfuckingbelievable is right. At first I thought it was a brave and bold move by Cameron, until I heard about the defence contractors. That's sort of like going to sell 'Never-Scale' fencing at Hillsborough stadium. The day after. Saying, "Heard you used a lot of this up lately in a messy pitch invasion so figure you might like some discount fence bargains."

Gaddafi is a lunatic. Shame the people who will be running the brutal suppression aren't. Hope were not looking at civil war here. I can't see him winning this one - is he crazy enough to re-enact Downfall?

That this point is important is on the verge of worrying me. While we may agree with the protestors, could it conceivably be orchestrated through media to someone else's ends? There is a common theme in each protest

My concern would be the same if Fox News or any other media organisation could be subbed in there. Someone mentioned the worst James Bond film in history earlier (Tomorrow Never Dies) as a (initially) jokey suggestion, but we did stop and think.

If the tale a few years back about him having untreated syphilis are true then there's a good chance he is mad.

I agree, it is something that should be kept in mind. AJE's coverage has been superb (less so in Libya as they had fewer people on the ground), but nobody's perfect or without bias. However, throughout the whole of the Egypt thing, AJE's coverage echoed what I was being linked to directly from Tahrir Square (and Alexandria to a lesser extent) by protestors themselves. Now, obviously they will have a massive bias too, but the support for the protestors outweighed the criticism so massively.

Hell, Fox news and Al Jazeera were agreeing on things. That alone makes me far less suspicious.

I don't think it would be possible to orchestrate movements on this kind of scale - you might manipulate things to begin with, but it's clearly grown out of control of any news agency, and if it's being orchestrated, then whoever's doing it has the backing of AJE, Google, Fox news, the BBC and tens of millions of people. Even if you could somehow set that off, it'd soon take on a life of its own - you couldn't possibly suppress that many people uploading videos and reports directly to the internet from the protest.

I have to say that Al jazeera continue to present great coverage. The amount of times they have introduced someone for an interview only to lose the line, or when broadcasting the events in Egyps to lose contact with reporters and camera crews, only for them to continue with coverage and bridge over interruptions pretty smoothly. Plus they have those excellent short films they sometimes show through the day.

Problem with the manipulation theory is the absolute confusion within the military and that happened from day 1. From border guards all going "fuck it, we hate him come on in" to high ranking officers choosing to take the planes and run for it rather than order or take part in a massacre (there have been chilling reports of groups of soldiers being executed for refusing to fire on civilians) and diplomats quitting left right and centre.

The man is clearly fucking nuts but there is a worrying parallel to be drawn between his military and the Japanese one during WW2 - a bunch of psycho thugs in charge of ordinary people using there own culture to manipulate them and a "we will die fighting and everyone else will burn along with us" mind set.

The UN Security Council has condemned the attacks on protestors and demanded that it stop.

Pro-Gaddafi supporters in Tripoli have come out after one of his speeches ("I will die here, I will fight on, I will eat your face and etc.") to demonstrate. Curiously, the shots I saw (state tv, natch) are of people waving flags and going out of their way to look directly at the camera. Doesn't look very demonstrate-y to me, but then I've only seen a few short clips, so. I find it hard to believe there are many people in Tripoli who would protest in favour of a regime that's bombing other Libyans, even if they were previously in favour of Gaddafi.

Death toll put at 300 by state tv; other estimates top about 1,000. Probably safe to assume it's at least 500.

Two battleships have appeared in Malta, having refused orders to shell Benghazi.

Communications down - internet access etc. gone. Unclear what workarounds are in place - I'm probably not looking hard enough, but I think Libya also has a lower proportion of English speakers than Egypt, and I am too ignorant to know Arabic, although I now know several ways to ask a dictator to leave, which could be quite useful at work in the coming weeks.

50 people reportedly arrested in Zimbabwe for watching coverage of Libyan protests

A Libyan student in Washington speaking out on AJE just now, saying that she doesn't care if they cancel her scholarship and refuse to let her back in; she will speak out and go back and die with her people if she has to, and wants to say to them that she's sorry she's come so late.

Finding it hard to comment here. The Libyan embassy are the second biggest pain in the arse of all the sponsors of our students, so I've got to know a couple of our Libyan students relatively well. I know there's an extra check I'll be making for any student records I work on next week....

Chile has reportedly cut off diplomatic ties with Libya. I can't find confirmation of this, but go Chile if it's accurate.

Google are helping out again with their "speak to tweet" service.

This paints an interesting picture of Libya's influence on neighbouring African states.

John Railton's telephone call service, launched last month for Egyptians to call and leave messages for all to hear, is now reaching out to Libyans.

CNN reports that Eastern Libya "appears to be under opposition control", with armed men in civilian clothing guarding the streets claiming to have killed or captured hundreds of Gaddafi's Central African mercenaries.

At this rate Malta's going to become an island super-power!

Saudi King figures it's probably a good idea to play it safe



I can't imagine anything happening on a large scale in SA, and I wouldn't be surprised if we're already helping them suppress any chance of it happening anyway. But this is pretty interesting. Even the regimes that aren't under a great threat might start seeing sense in lightening up a little just in case.

Libya, meanwhile, appears to be falling under the control of the revolutionaries, as government ministers and some army officers join the people. Malta turned back a plane that was believed to be carrying Gaddafi's daughter.

Foreign journalists are starting to find ways into the country. Democracy Now journo Anjali Kamat twatters:



UN Human Rights Commissioner says that if aerial attacks on protestors are confirmed, a no-fly zone may be needed. Cameron calls for a UN Security Council resolution (although only for a crowd, so not formally at the UN itself yet. Neat trick, Dave. Make sure you get us a good price for those arms deals, eh? Cunt). Even Iran's Ahmedinejad makes a pretty decent speech condemning the violence and saying that leaders who don't respect the will of their people... "their fate is written". Yowser.

Well this might change a few things in terms of who's willing to get involved:



http://hosted2.ap.org/APDefault/*/Artic ... 1baeae6cc4

Jesus wept!

Except himself, obv. In my years of refugee support, I've never had a Libyan or a Saudi fleeing persecution for expressing a political viewpoint contrary to their despot's. Tens of Iranians though, and one Egyptian.

Ahmedinejad is far too efficient in the way he organises his populace suppression to look like a Gaddafi. I'm willing to bet he's a much, much bigger cunt though.

Hmm - there appear to be several hundred who have been rather terminally persecuted for expressing a political viewpoint contrary to Gadaffi, and that's only in the last 48 hours or so.

Yes but he's undermining himself by it being common knowledge.

Proper tyrants have a death building in every village and dispose of the opposition one by one having framed them for whatever comes to mind. Something haraahm usually helps. Bombing a square full of grumbling citizens with your shitty old Migs is a schoolboy error in the oppressive regime game.

I've heard the Syphillis thing about Mugabe as well. Aren't those two friends?

Oh, I've no doubt that Ahmedinejad is as big a cunt as Saddam Hussein - perhaps even more, and the speech was typical doublespeak even more so than Cameron or Obama's. But it's significant that he was willing to make such an unambiguous statement at this time. I'm not aware of the particulars of Libyan-Iranian relations though, so I could be getting the wrong idea.

Mm, it does seem that Gaddafi's crossed the threshold from 'mad but cunning and very capable dictator' to 'crazy as batshit pie', hence that veneer of respect other powers can have for his power, if not his methods, is surely gone. Precisely when this happened could probably be debated all night, though.



True, but this is a massive crisis moment. Not justifying what he's doing, of course, but even the most cool and sophisticated dictator might resort to this as a desperate measure, especially when it becomes clear that their days are numbered. It doesn't look like Mubarak straight up executed that many people last month, but he sure as shit imprisoned and tortured thousands of protestors.

Gadaffi is speaking again. Apparently Libyan youth have been given hallucinogenic pills by Bin Laden.

Meanwhile, shooting, violence, and killings continue.

EDIT: He's giving this in audio only.

We're all going to look pretty silly if it turns out he's right.

I'd be enjoying all this mentalness a lot more if I didn't think it could al go horribly wrong (for Europe and the rest of the world) at any moment.

He looks completely out of his tree, doesn't he? I love his sparkly headband thing.

Mumm-ra Gaddaffi...or Jackie Stallone...?

I was wondering if China might be prone to the same thing.

Or are they all happily occupied there, with the crazed free market in place.