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 Post subject: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 13:41 
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EvilTrousers

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 3073
I joined Titanbet to take up the offer them refunding your first bet if you lose. I ended up in profit only now they want the following to let me get the cash back out (bear in mind none was needed to deposit money)

Quote:
Your withdrawal request for the total amount of £47.75 is currently being reviewed. As part of our security process, we require:

1. Valid photo identification (e.g. passport or driving license).

The ID must display the following:

• Photo
• First and last name
• Billing address as registered in the account
• Birth date
• Expiration date (if one is not present on the document please specify)
• Signature

In the event that the address present on your identification document differs from the address registered in your account, you will need to provide us with a utility bill or a bank statement displaying the registered address.

The document must display the following:

• full name and the address as registered in your account
• Company logo (displayed clearly)
• Date (within a three(3) month period)


2. Front and back copies of the credit cards used to deposit in your account.

The credit card copies must display the following:

• Name (as registered in the account)
• Expiration date
• First 6 and last 4 digits on front of the credit card
• Last 4 digits at the back of the credit card
• signature

Note: As it is necessary for us to see only the first 6 and last 4 digits on the credit card, we suggest that you hide the middle digits and the 3 digit Card Security Code (CVV/CVV2) as a security precaution.

If you no longer have any one of the credit cards registered, a bank statement for the card in question will suffice.

The document must display the following:

• first and last name as registered in your account
• credit card number
• Bank Name and/or Bank Logo (displayed clearly)
• Transactions made within the last six (6) months

Additionally, the documents sent must be:

• clear and legible
• a full document (displaying the edges of the card/document)
• in either jpeg, adobe, tiff file formats
• less than 1MB (if sent as an e-mail attachment).


We suggest that the documents are sent as e-mail attachments to [email protected] by scanning them or photographing them with a digital camera.
If you are unable to do so, you may try faxing them to: Canada: 1-800-884-5374 UK: 44-800-4715-207 or International: 44-800-4715-207.


Needless to say I told them to fuck off but they say the following in their terms and conditions means they don't have to send me my cash until I do the above

Quote:
Please be informed that this is regular security procedure to require identification documents on your first withdrawal and also for your own security. Note that you can hide the digits in the middle of your debit/credit card and also the security code on the back of the card as a security precaution. We need only the first 6 and last 4 digits of the card number.

Please read point 6. DEPOSITS AND WITHDRAWALS from the terms and conditions of Titanbet.

"6.3 As well as any other verification processes we may undertake, any account holders depositing from debit and credit cards may be required to provide additional proof of identity to assist with age verification before making their first withdrawal. We refer you to section 4 of these General Terms and Conditions which explains more about age verification. Whilst these additional checks are not generally required for credit card users, we reserve the right to request such documentation prior to processing a withdrawal, should circumstances dictate. Therefore, we reserve the right to request specific proof of identity in the form of, including but not limited to: passport number, photocopy of a valid identity document, utility bill or header of a recent card statement."


So basically can I continue to tell them to fuck off as I really don't want to send anyone those details over email (or via any medium to be fair) thank you very much? Also if they refuse to send me my money what can I do?

If I need to burn the offices down then that's also ok.

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 13:44 
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Commander-in-Cheese

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Posts: 49244
Surely if they don't require any of that ID to take money off you, they shouldn't require it to give it back?

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 13:45 
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"Praisebot"

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You would have thought that they'd be able to do the refund the same way that you deposited the money?

Like in shops... they can only refund the card you paid with.


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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 13:45 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48892
Location: Cheshire
Anti money laundering rules?

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 13:46 
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baron of techno

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 24136
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• Name (as registered in the account)
• Expiration date
• First 6 and last 4 digits on front of the credit card
• Last 4 digits at the back of the credit card
• signature

WTF???


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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 13:47 
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EvilTrousers

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 3073
MaliA wrote:
Anti money laundering rules?


I thought about that but surely £48 falls well below any criteria that might trigger that?

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 13:48 
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kalmar wrote:
• Name (as registered in the account)
• Expiration date
• First 6 and last 4 digits on front of the credit card
• Last 4 digits at the back of the credit card
• signature

WTF???


Why would they need proof of this? Surely if you provide incorrect card details then it's your problem and not there's?


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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 13:49 
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Anti-Money Laundering legislation only kicks in if behaviour is being exhibited that would make a reasonable person suspect that something underhanded is occurring, or if the transaction involves parties or nations known to be 'dubious'.

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 13:54 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

Joined: 17th Dec, 2008
Posts: 8293
MaliA wrote:
Anti money laundering rules?

Yep. I had the same issue on Red32 or whatever it was called. However, all they needed was the number from my Driving license, not a copy. Unfortunately, I hadn't bet through my minimum for the free bets, and when I achieved that, I lost my winnings.
Trousers wrote:

I thought about that but surely £48 falls well below any criteria that might trigger that?

A lot of places take the view of no deminimis. They will argue this is for safety purposes, as a launderer could test with a small transaction first, but is probably related to them not being fucked having any variations from policy. Bearing in mind too, if you're not going to take the risk of providing your ID for a small amount and so never claim it, or re-bet it until you get some 'proper winnings' worth taking the risk for, then this is potentially free money to the company.
Craster wrote:
Anti-Money Laundering legislation only kicks in if behaviour is being exhibited that would make a reasonable person suspect that something underhanded is occurring, or if the transaction involves parties or nations known to be 'dubious'.

See above. How many times do you see companies blame 'Rules' where they are actually trying to solve their own Admin. If it is in the T&Cs, then they can do pretty much what they like.


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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 14:00 
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EvilTrousers

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 3073
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Craster wrote:
Anti-Money Laundering legislation only kicks in if behaviour is being exhibited that would make a reasonable person suspect that something underhanded is occurring, or if the transaction involves parties or nations known to be 'dubious'.

See above. How many times do you see companies blame 'Rules' where they are actually trying to solve their own Admin. If it is in the T&Cs, then they can do pretty much what they like.


Yeah I'm thinking that. They've contradicted themselves a number times already (it's for my security you see, also this is a regular thing - no wait it just happens occasionally) so I reckon they just hope I'll let it lie.

Well I won't. Ha.

Also I thought if the T&C's are unduly onerous then they aren't enforceable? - i.e. it can't say "If you win more than £30 we are entitled to not less than 3 organs of your first born offspring"

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 14:00 
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baron of techno

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 24136
Location: fife
That's a complete identity-thefting kit right there. Clearly designed to put anyone off claiming their money.

And who knows what they could do with that information, or what their employees could do. brrr.


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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 14:02 
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Esoteric

Joined: 12th Dec, 2008
Posts: 11773
Location: On Mars as an anthropologist...
kalmar wrote:
That's a complete identity-thefting kit right there. Clearly designed to put anyone off claiming their money.

:this:

And I bet in the T&C you only have a certain ammount of time to claim the money before it becomes null and void.

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 14:16 
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Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 1236
It's pretty much common practice. I seem to recall :attitude: mentioning the same thing happening to him - I think he stuck to his guns and the bookies in question payed up. But if they don't want to and you don't provide the evidence they ask for then how do you get the money? Taking legal action may be tricky if, like most book makers, they are based and regulated in the back of beyond.

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 14:27 
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Comfortably Dumb

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 12034
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Craig wrote:
It's pretty much common practice.


Yup. Quite a few of the online casinos I've been a member of have tried the same stuff. Sometimes it's been after I've succesfully withdrawn money, so I've just been able to ignore it. It's one of the many hoops that they put in place to make withdrawing money as troublesome as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 14:57 
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EvilTrousers

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 3073
At ease - just got this;

Quote:
We would like to inform you that after reviewing your case, our security department waived the documents for your current withdrawal.

However, please note, that no future withdrawals will be processed without the receipt and approval of all the requested documents.


I bet there's a fair few folks that back down though. Scary thought.

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 15:26 
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Sitting balls-back folder

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 10164
Quote:
In which case, please note that you can close my account and get directly to fucking fuck.

If they want you to give up trying to get your money, that's an intent to permanently deprive, isn't it? Or "actual, by the legal definition and everything, not like piracy, honest to goodness theft". And no-one in their right mind would provide their entire identity for the taking via insecure means, so it's an unfair contract to boot. Racketeering for the 21st Century in action.


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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 15:30 
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"Praisebot"

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17087
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BikNorton wrote:
Quote:
In which case, please note that you can close my account and get directly to fucking fuck.


:this: but wait till the money actually hits your account.


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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 15:33 
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"Praisebot"

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17087
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Trousers wrote:
I bet there's a fair few folks that back down though. Scary thought.


I've used a couple of gambling sites in my time (Mainly for the free bets) and you can see how people get so easily hooked. It's just so easy to spend large amounts of money with the "next time I'll win" feeling.

Imagine if you couldn't withdraw your money easily, you'd probably end up wasting it on more bets so I can see how people get themselves in all kinds of trouble to fund gambling addictions.


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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 16:53 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48892
Location: Cheshire
This could have been avoided, though as:


Quote:
6.3 As well as any other verification processes we may undertake, any account holders depositing from debit and credit cards may be required to provide additional proof of identity to assist with age verification before making their first withdrawal. We refer you to section 4 of these General Terms and Conditions which explains more about age verification. Whilst these additional checks are not generally required for credit card users, we reserve the right to request such documentation prior to processing a withdrawal, should circumstances dictate. Therefore, we reserve the right to request specific proof of identity in the form of, including but not limited to: passport number, photocopy of a valid identity document, utility bill or header of a recent card statement.
6.4 Any documents requested from you must be mailed, scanned, e-mailed or faxed to us at the address and numbers provided on the 24/7 support page. In the event that a sum is mistakenly credited to your account we shall be entitled to make the appropriate adjustment to it.


Which is in the T&C's.

And
Quote:
4.2 We will not open an account unless we believe, acting reasonably, that you are 18 years or over. We are entitled to verify any information you give us when you open an account to ensure you are over the age of 18 and we may ask you to provide us with proof you are over 18. You will not be able to withdraw any winnings until our verification process has been satisfactorily completed. In any event, if you have failed to satisfactorily complete our age verification checks, we are entitled to freeze your account, prevent you from gambling any further until you have satisfactorily completed these checks and, if upon completion of age verification you are ultimately shown to be underage, we will return all stakes to you but are under no obligation to pay any winnings.

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 16:59 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48892
Location: Cheshire
Heh, 6.3 was what Trousers read.

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 19:36 
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Hello Hello Hello

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 13386
Titanbet are a Playtech casino - i.e. shady fuckers.

Well done on getting your cash out of them but they will always try to fuck you around when you want to withdraw, especially if you're trying to make money out of the free bets.

They will usually back down if you ask to have your case referred to the relevant gaming commission, but you get to the point where you wonder if it's worth it in your own time alone.

Microgaming casinos will generally treat you a lot better, but the bonus offers are generally a lot tighter as they're only really interested in 'proper' customers and not free-bet junkies.

I've never been asked for any further ID from any Microgaming casino when making a withdrawal, including the one where I deposited £100 in real cash for a 100% sign-up match bonus, and ended up withdrawing over £2000 once I'd satisfied the wagering requirements.

They just bunged it straight back onto my credit card, no questions asked.


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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 19:50 
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Atrocity Exhibition wrote:
and ended up withdrawing over £2000 once I'd satisfied the wagering requirements.



Hero :hat:


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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 20:15 
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Hello Hello Hello

Joined: 11th May, 2008
Posts: 13386
TheVision wrote:
Atrocity Exhibition wrote:
and ended up withdrawing over £2000 once I'd satisfied the wagering requirements.



Hero :hat:


Yes, it almost made up for my estimated lifetime losses of around £50000.


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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 20:18 
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Esoteric

Joined: 12th Dec, 2008
Posts: 11773
Location: On Mars as an anthropologist...
:DD

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:12 
Excellent Member

Joined: 2nd Jul, 2010
Posts: 1
Folks, I have also had problems with these feckers at titanbet and would appreciate some advice.
1. I signed up with titanbet and deposited £10 to get a free £25 bet.
2. I placed the £25 free bet and lost and tried to withdraw the £10 which was declined because they said I had to gamble the £10 which was fair enough.
3. I then deposited a further £20 which I was going to gamble with but a few days later I decided I wanted the £20 back.
4. This withdrawal was declined on numerous occassions with me complaining back and forward.
5. Today I checked my titan account and they have taken £25 from the £30 in my account leaving me only £5 in the account and I got the email below from them

"Please be informed that as per the terms of the TB 10 Bonus [25 GBP in your
case], it cannot be withdrawn and is removed when a withdrawal request is
made. Be advised that the TB 10 Bonus [25 GBP in your case] has been cut from
your withdrawal(s) and the rest - [5 GBP] was too small to be processed.

"4. This is a play bonus only and can not be withdrawn. In order to withdraw
any profit, a player must first wager their bonus at least once. For the
purpose of calculating this wagering, the first credits wagered will be
deducted from your deposit(s) rather than from the play bonus. Such
withdrawals will only be processed once open bets have been settled."

"5. If a player withdraws any winnings, the value of the bonus will be
deducted from the withdrawal."

As far as I am concerned the £20 was mine and had nothing to do with the bonus bet and if this is not the case then the money is mine to gamble with which I cannot even do now as they have taken it out of my account completely. I now want to kill the feckin cu*ts


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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:14 
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Commander-in-Cheese

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Posts: 49244
Have you got any email record of the £25 bet you made? It does look like they screwed up and thought it was still in your account, rather than deliberately screwing you.

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:17 
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INFINITE POWAH

Joined: 1st Apr, 2008
Posts: 30498
Hmm... Who'd have thought that an online betting company might in any way be a bit unscrupulous or, even, a smidge shady.

Still, at least it wasn't bingo.

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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:18 
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baron of techno

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 24136
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And you'll have a record of the £20 you paid in.

Just need to present the facts calmly and clearly and learn the lesson of not gambling on the internet :)


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 Post subject: Re: BEEX Legal Attack Dogs
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 16:51 
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EvilTrousers

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 3073
Oh those fuckers.

Just got the following email;

Quote:
In order to complete processing a player's withdrawal request, we sometimes request copies of the player's credit cards, identification and confirmation documents, this is a one-time security procedure.

If after 10 days, as in your case, we have not received legible copies of your documentation, we return the amount of your withdrawal request back to your balance. We may also choose to refund your deposit method at this point; however this is done at our sole discretion and may not be done at all.

You may play the funds in your account or make another withdrawal request. However, please be advised that we will once again require these documents to complete processing the withdrawal request. All other requirements have been met and once your documents are received, your payment will be sent out.


The money's back in the betting account. So they basically just bullshitted me saying they would waive the security procedures.

Looks like I am going to need my box of matches after all.

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