Be Excellent To Each Other

This thread is aimed at folks who have already completed the entire game, or folks who don't mind having the whole thing spoiled, or who will never play it so don't give a shit.

The other GTAIV thread got a bit daft 'cause about 50% of it was spoiler-tagged out and you never knew if the spoilers related to something you'd actually done or not, I clicked on more than one spoiler only to realise, 'Shit, they're further in the game than me.'

As such, let's have a nice 'all out in the open' thread for those folks who have finished the game and wish to discuss it without having to worry about spoiling stuff for others (or themselves!), and I'd guess that most people who bought the game have finished the mission mode now anyway?

But just to make it absolutely clear:

HERE THERE BE LOTS OF GTAIV SPOILERS - DO NOT READ THIS THREAD IF YOU DON'T WANT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING REVEALING TO YOU!

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SPOIL OFF!

So then, what was awesome about it in story terms?

Michelle turning out to be a sinister government agent I wasn't expecting, and was a nice little twist, although she did turn a blind eye to rather a lot of carnage.

Most of the 'moral choices' didn't really deliver on their promise, and all of them (except the very final one) presented either a very minor variation on the overall story, or absolutely none whatsoever. I don't see this as having been a problem as such, and it does mean that there aren't whole story branches you might miss out on, but it also largely kills off the need to replay the game doing everything differently.

Proper, decent characters, even the ones that start off annoying (Roman and Brucie in particular) you just can't help but to end up liking, especially the total nutcase Brucie.

Dating actually works well, despite my original cynicism about the whole concept, and does deliver tangible rewards, being able to get Kiki to wipe out a two star wanted came in handy on more than one occasion. It's also nice that all the girls are somewhat flawed and have their annoying traits, it fits in with the game perfectly. (Kiki in particular is a terrible drunk, the first time I went out to a bar with her she staggered out across the pavement, fell flat on her face over a dustbin, and proceeded to give me a right hard time about fucking other whores and not keeping my dick in my pants.)

Some of the choices are quite hard to make, I had no problem killing Playboy X instead of Dwayne, but when it came to killing Derrick or Francis, I really wanted to kill Francis, but killed Derrick just because I didn't want to piss off Francis, and I wanted his clear a three star wanted special ability. (Turns out it actually makes no difference to the story though.)

The way that Darko Brevic is built up to be this ultimate evil character who's responsible for Niko's current brutalised mental state is excellent, so when you finally meet him, the expectation is of a massive gunfight with an army of Eastern European badasses - and yet, he turns out to be just a desperate junkie who sold you and your friends down the river for $1000 to feed his habit - it's a far more poignant meeting than I was expecting, especially when you gun him down and before he dies he simply says, 'Thank you.' (And then Niko shoots him another five or six times, during that whole sequence I actually forgot I was playing a game, it feels genuinely cinematic.)

The overall sense of low lives and slime that pervades the entire game, and Niko's obvious disgust with those around him and what he's doing. If there's one thing this game doesn't glamorise, it's crime and killing and all the rest of it - despite being massively, hugely enjoyable as a game - I always felt that the driving motivating factor for Niko was to just get the fuck out and into something better. After all, what other shooter has ever contained the main character saying quite simply when commanded to kill someone:

'But I don't want to.'

Some of it's a bit ham-fisted and the dialogue doesn't always run true, and Niko's motivations don't always add up, but I've watched proper Hollywood movies that have made a million times less sense than GTAIV does.

The final 'choice' - revenge or deal (save before you choose if you want to see both endings). Revenge means Kate gets killed, deal means Roman gets killed (which is bitterly ironic 'cause that was what Roman was urging you to choose). The death of Roman is far more effective in my opinion, but choosing revenge makes far more sense for Niko's character. I just didn't buy into Kate enough to really feel it would matter so much to Niko, despite them sharing some quite tender dialogue towards the end of the game.

Also, by choosing revenge you get to properly kill the fuck out of Dimitri and Pegorino, whereas with deal, Dimitri kills Pegorino and you just get Dimitri. I suggest you play both endings and make your own mind up.

The ending itself, very understated and certainly not a happy ending, excellent shot of the statue of happiness, and the end credits are worth watching for some cool music and fantastic fly-bys of all over the city - how amazingly wicked is the graphics engine Rockstar have come up with for this game?......

Other stuff?

Random characters are a genius little addition and the way they do react to your choices is cool, as is the way they flesh out the city with more 'real' people. Psycho serial killer Eddie Low is genuinely a bit disturbing to listen to, so I was glad to kill him after our second meeting.

Side missions are worthwhile and truly diverting, assassinations and most wanteds in particular are very entertaining, but even the more mundane car robberies have a real appeal.

I've still got a way to go for 100% completion, (haven't done any of the pigeons or unique jumps yet, have quite a few most wanteds, vigilantes and car thefts to do, as well as a few races), but even though I've finished all the missions, the game does keep drawing me back in and I reckon I will see it through to 100% completion, which is very unusual for me. They've done an excellent job on making the game 'feel' as if it's still going on, you still get calls off your friends, can still go on dates, get new girlfriends, can go and do activities, all that kind of thing, so whilst there are no new 'main story' missions, there's still lots to do and it doesn't have that 'empty' feeling that GTA3 and Vice City had when the main missions were finished.

It's not a perfect game, but when it's at its best (the insane HEAT-esque bank job mission, or the boat chases, or the final mission which whilst infuriating felt sooooo satisfying when I finally nailed it), it's as good as gaming has ever got IMO.

I'm 44 hours in now, and I reckon there's another 20+ hours in it yet - and then of course, there's the DLC to look forward to. (Which I hope is more than a few crappy new cars or something.)

Haven't bothered at all with the multiplayer but I believe it's good, might have a dabble at some point.

Overall, I'm calling this as 'best game ever' without a doubt.

Oh yes, and is it possible to take Kate to bed and love her up good style?

I know you're not supposed to be touching her and that early on, on pain of death from Packie, but even after we'd been going out for ages, every time I tried my luck with her she blew me out.

Dunno if it was a glitch in my game or if that's just the way it is.

I think it's supposed to be that way.

A 125 hours of playing GTA:IV and i'm still enjoying myself immensely.The random character encounters, the car/bike handling, Nico, the wonderfully hard to find pigeons and the in game internet are all big plus points for me.

I love it when you're halfway through a mission, escaping from somewhere, and you suddenly hear a muted 'coo'. Suddenly it becomes desperately damned important to find and slaughter that bloody pidgeon!

See now I've found a lot of pigeons during the course of the game but I've held off killing even a single one (and indeed, my stats page reports zero pigeons killed).

Reason being that I'm intending to use a map to find all the pigeons, and I figure it'll be a much easier task being able to go from start to finish through the whole 200, rather than having to wonder, 'Did I kill the pigeon in this area already, or can I just not find it?'

Same for the stunt jumps, although I did do one of those by accident during a mission (and I must say it looked fucking cool in slow motion), but I can remember which one that was so will recognise it when I come across it again.

I'm pretty certain Kiki can do more than two stars.

I thought Kiki was two (and only once at that, until you take her out on another nice date), and Francis was a 'one hit only' kind of deal for three stars.

Carmen pissed me off so much I just dated her until she let me shag her, and then I dumped her.

A nice twist would have been the lass from the internet cafe becoming available for a little fling, as she seems very keen on Niko right from the off.

Kiki can definitely do a three-star wanted level, as I needed to call her to get that level removed during the final mission on Happiness Island.

Incidentally, I was quite concerned about the final mission as lots of people had said they had lots of trouble with it, but I managed to complete it first time. Although, had I not dated Kiki, I'd have been gunned down by the police on the island.

I originally did the Deal ending, but decided to check out Revenge just to see what was different. The dialogue between Kate and Niko on the way to Roman's wedding was quite touching, and although I'd not really put much stock into the relationship between the two (she never puts out, by the way) that bit of dialogue made it clear that a relationship was going to form. Then she gets moidad.

Yeah that was the only indication that they were really becoming an item, it'd be good if it'd been established a bit before, maybe with a call from Packie that you were allowed to get your knob out without him sending a remote controlled car bomb under your bed if you dared to do so.

The death of Roman definitely plays a lot heavier than the death of Kate, to the extent that I reckon it would have been 'better' if Roman got killed either way.

Still the best game ever of course, put another couple of hours in this evening chipping through the Most Wanteds and stealing cars, and my date with Alex is coming up as well, then I'll have to get back in touch with Carmen - to have all three on the go at once.

At some point I may actually have sex with my real wife as well, but only if she gasps - 'You can prosecute me any time!'

The pigeons are a pig to do with just a map. In the end I used Games Radar's guide as it's got lovely screenshots too. My favourite pigeons were the ones on the statue of happiness that you have to blast with a sniper rifle. There's no way you could hear the cooing for those. 1 on the forehead, one on her chest, one right hand, one left hand and one on the rim of the coffee cup she's holding.

All I have left to do (I think) are steives cars, stunt ramps and pigeons, and one or two of the random people.

I'm not looking forward to the pigeons. (It took me until meeting Derrick in the park for me to spot my first pigeon. Since then I've only seen another 4. I don't think I'm doing that one without help.

I have to say, I'm really enjoying the cars handling. Chasing down criminals in the cop car was a great deal of fun.

Ooohhhh nice call - that should make the job quite a bit easier

Will get a few hours in today 'cause dearest wife and childe will be off to the in-laws for the rest of the day soon, and that of course means breaking out some beers and firing the 360 up

I'll try and finish off all the Most Wanteds (they're pretty bloody easy with an 'end-game' arsenal at your disposal) if I can, and dib into Stevie's car thefts as when the opportunity presents itself.

Haven't done any of the vigilantes yet, however.

I've been trying to get all the pigeons and jumps without using a map.Managed all the jumps and 106 of the pigeons unaided so far.

I fear i may end up with another Crackdown situation though and come to grinding halt with only a couple left.

Which is why I'm doing it by not shooting the pigeons and constructing my own map. (And noting places where I've founf jumps)Those last two agility orbs hiding on the agency island... Grr.

I really should get around to adding you to my friends list.

Worst thing about GTA IV: I've twice had to catch myself before shouting "Cheesy Vaginas" when shocked. One day I'm going to sip and say it in from of the wrong people.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one.

There's a Garage icon on Bohan. Take them there.

You take all of Stevie's cars to the garage in South East Bohan (the little island at the top of the map).

It does actually mark it on the in-game map, but it's easy to miss.

Blimey, according to my stat screen i've spent over six hours browsing the in game internet.That's more than many a full price game has managed to occupy me for.

Admittedly a chunk of that was me doing some detective work on tracking down Eddie Low the middle park serial killer (i was playing spoiler free so was unaware of his name and the fact that he'd later appear as a random character), but even so that's an impressive amount of time.

Eddie Low's insane rants border on the genuinely disturbing sometimes, I'm surprised Niko doesn't kill him at their first encounter, but I'm very glad you get the chance to at the second encounter, the fucker is pretty handy with a knife as well.

I pumped ten shotgun rounds into the bastard, and then repeatedly ran over the corpse for good measure.

I recall him babbling about preferring the screams of little boys to the screams of little girls, but how both had their good points - and other such psycho talk.