Be Excellent To Each Other

WTF is a "muzzo"? is that northern for something else?

Slang for Muslim. See also: mussies.

A person of the Muslim faith.

As opposed to Muggos which is Australian slang for non wizarding folk.

Oh, I see.

Muslim vaginas.

This is fine

https://twitter.com/simon_nixon/status/ ... 9431773185

UK government shelves plan to publicise no deal preparations in case it turns public against Brexit (via ⁦@ShippersUnbound⁩) pic.twitter.com/xrQiB43jfW

— Simon Nixon (@Simon_Nixon) July 29, 2018

Good.
Grief.


I’d like to say I’m surprised but....

Still, how’s the FTSE250 doing?

Attacking, childish name-calling and ridiculing for being thick, narrow sighted or whatever, so-called Brexitteers is itself momentually ignorant and unlikely to change minds.

Yeah I can't see folks being won over by that sort of approach, TBH.

I'll tell my mother-in-law she's stupid and has never organised anything in her life. (Despite the fact she ran a successful business for over two decades and earned a very comfortable lifestyle and retirement off the back of it.)

I'm sure that'll work.

Nothing will change minds and I'm tired of trying.

Let me guess -- we're supposed to understand them? Open dialogs? Be conciliatory? Are they trying to understand Remain voters at all, or is this a one-way street?

You’ve posted some interested articles and I’m fully onboard, however I think the Remain side needs to start a hearts and minds campaign. You’ll probably never change a racist’s mind about being a racist but calling all Leave voters idiots won’t help support your cause from those who voted for other reasons. I’m sure 2% didn’t vote Leave “just” to kick out the Muslims. The most helpful news of late has been about the food shortages and preparations for a hard Brexit. To my mind, the best way to change a voter’s mind is to hit them in the pocket. Christ, if news comes out that Brexit will cause fuel shortages that’ll be the end of Brexit. Maybe.

Remain voters have been conducting a deluge of information about how badly everyone will be hit in the pocket for two years straight. It's been ignored or dismissed as project fear. Facts don't help. That's mostly the fault of the media rather than the populous, of course.

My experiences seem to be mainly that they brush off all the claims of shortages as “project fear” and “the Government will never let that happen” or “May is incompetent, we need to replace her with someone that will make Brexit a success!”

Then you get the hardcore Brexiters who are happy to watch the country burn itself to the ground as long as we Leave. Now.

It’s reached the point where I seriously find myself wondering if this whole Brexit thing had been orchestrated by the League Of Shadows, but we don’t have a Batman who can stop it

Agreed, and there's a small chance it could go even more horrendously wrong for them.
If they choose to sell up in the UK and move out there before the actual Brexit date they could find themselves kicked out with nowhere to return to.

Today I:

- drove the south coast of France without an international driving permit
- listening to the Grand Prix on radio 5
- using my Vodafone data allowance to stream both that and Spotify before and after
- paid the tolls using a card enabled solely by the existence of open banking

All of which are possible because of individual EU directives, and I can’t do in theory next year (banking aside as that’s leveraged off MasterCard now). And they’re all really minor shit in the grand scheme of things.

The problem the tories have: all possible outcomes are politcal suicide.

It's a shame that the only leading Leavers still in the Cabinet are Michael Gove and the Disgraced Liam Fox. If it was going to be so good, why did Boris Johnson and David Davis flee to the backbenches?

Oh, yeah.
Giphy "cowardice":
https://media1.giphy.com/media/fEx2ebJBvypHO/giphy-loop.mp4

We can't do anything about the (waves finger in the air) 20% of hard core leavers. We can't do anything about the 10% who don't care. What we can do is keep working on the softest 20% .

One of the things that we always forget is that sadly many people in the country don't really care about politics: they just want to get on with their lives. It's how you reach them that's the tricky part.

Exactly. The generic name-calling needs to stop as it most definitely isn't helping. I've read a number of messages on other forums where Leavers have decided that they made a mistake and would now vote Remain, but others have said that their positions have been hardened (so they intend to stay as Leavers) because of all the name-calling.

Remainers really do need to win the hearts and minds of the 'soft' Leavers and throwing around insults just won't cut it.

It's the weekly 'leaflets' on possible No Deal preprations that have been shelved (government are afraid of losing voters and turning people against Brexit ........ ) but, instead, they are supposedly to be released all at once at the end of August ....... the leaflets were due to start last week.

Plans agreed at the Chequers cabinet summit to publish reports every week through the summer detailing what a “no-deal Brexit” would mean for Britain have been scrapped — after warnings that the public would panic and never vote Conservative again.

Downing Street sources confirmed last night that a series of papers advising businesses, homeowners, farmers, hauliers and holidaymakers how to prepare are now likely to be published on the same day in late August, rather than dripped out over a period of six weeks.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0368 ... 2d14bef8b7

This government is a very bad joke. All they care about is themselves. I would even go so far as to label them traitors, particularly Rees-Mogg and his money-grubbing mates. May on the other hand doesn't have the courage or the power to go against them without splitting the party (which is going to happen anyway).

and there is a new Time item on this -

Downing Street has dropped plans to “drip feed” details of the government’s no-deal contingency preparations next month in the face of Brexiteer anger that it was part of an “establishment” plan to scare voters.

Senior Conservative MPs are understood to have demanded that Dominic Raab, the new Brexit secretary, drop the plan, claiming that it was a deliberate attempt to frighten voters into accepting any deal.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-1 ... -z90rlrp8c

so the tories are sending the message that they don't give a shit about making the public aware of matters which could save lives.

The right wing media have been the ones driving this for many years now. You need only look to their owners to see why (hint: money).

That's correct. But if I was May I'd rather go down as the leader who took the brave approach and called off Brexit as opposed to the leader who watched the country crash and burn. Either way the tory party is in ruins, but at least the UK is still functioning as normal.

The fact we're even talking and joking about the government's policy resulting in essential services failing is worrying enough.

She would get the legacy thing Tony Blair craved, and David Cameron once joked about trying to avoid. I just can't picture her going over the top.

I don't believe this to be true.



Despite all the wrangling and the evidence and the pleas of 3 million EU citizens living in the UK and the lack of a plan from the government and Tory civil war and capitulation to the EU on all matters of substance the affect on UK public opinion has been: a swing of a few percent. The definition of insanity is repeating the same actions and expecting different outcomes. I cannot imagine now, two years after this clusterfuck kicked off, there is some supernatural clincher of an argument still to be made that we simply haven't discovered yet. I cannot imagine what could happen to convince people who are not already convinced.

(Source: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/06/23/eu ... two-years/)

It's like global warming, they'll be convinced of their total fuckwittery only when it's already too late.

But perhaps I am wrong to give up hope: https://news.sky.com/story/public-opini ... s-11453220

I hope so. But I'm not optimistic.

Edit-- and even there: 35% think Brexit will be good for the economy, 40% think it'll be good for the country. Still really big numbers.

Markg's climate change example is a good one. It's when something moves from the abstract to the reality people will start noticing and begin to turn. And they'll claim to have always been against leaving too.

I despise Cummings so much I don't even want to give him the civility of the honorific (although Mr Trump gets it only because that makes him sound like a crap Roger Hargreaves book and he wants to be respected as 'President'), but connecting the NHS to the EU was a piece of cynical genius. Do you want to give money to some anonymous blob you've not really thought about or do you want to give it the NHS?

I have, however, talked to friends who whilst they are utterly against leaving think a further referendum would be 'undemocratic'. That's going to be quite hard, but then if we couldn't change our mind after one vote we wouldn't need periodic elections.

If things had gone "to plan" as far as exiting goes, and we were going to get £350m a week extra for the NHS etc. etc. then I would agree that holding a second referendum would be undemocratic.

Since pretty much everything they said has been proven to be false, and on top of that the revelations of it basically being a sham campaign run on law-breaking lies and rhetoric, probably using Russian money likely funded by Putin's cronies themselves, it would be undemocratic *not* to have a second referendum, in my view.

Problem is the hardcore Brexiteers (many of whom are likely bots, as I simply refuse to believe they're that dense) don't care about the lies or the Russia connection, they just want out of the EU. And you can't have a reasonable discussion with them, because they just throw non sequiturs and unsourced (or dubiously sourced) articles at you that "prove" you wrong.

It's either a complete lack of critical thinking, or there are a *huge* number of tinfoil-hat wearers in this country that no-one previously knew existed. Or both.

I get depressed by the knowledge that whilst we've made great strides we haven't fully eradicated xenophobia and all this is allowing it to rear its ugly head again.

Objection. If you have the critical thinking skills of a Post-It Note that's no one else's fault but yours.

In part, but it's harder to objectively evaluate something when everything (including the BBC these days, because they're so scared of a motion to revoke the charter) is shouting at you that it's not true and everything will actually be great.

The only option the Conservative party have to survive is to 100% commit to brexit and it be a success, any other result or option taken, means the end of them in power for a long time.
The fact that option is virtually impossible is moot. The 0.0001% chance of them pulling it off is better than the other options on the table, for them. The state of the country is a secondary consideration...

Although a second referendum seems like the best chance of aborting Brexit and would at least give the Conservatives a bit of a get-out (following 'the will of the people' and all that), it still feels like a question we shouldn't be asked. Even a couple of years down the line, there are new issues being raised, like the potential lack of insulin as we don't manufacture it in the UK. However, a lot of people either pay no attention to this stuff or just dismiss it if it doesn't affect them - like with Airbus potentially leaving the UK, I saw a lot of 'let them go!' type of comments. Some just can't/won't see the bigger picture at all.

There's a lot of people who think that anything that goes wrong is just going to be short term and that'll we'll be better off after a few years. You can't argue against it to their satisfaction and if there were a second referendum that reversed the result we would never, ever hear the end of it.

However a second referendum will lose them their "UKIP" favouring base, and lose them the next election.

I want a second referendum, I want May to put country before party, I just can't see it happening.

This even after you show them that recent interview of Jacob Rees-Mogg stating that we'd start to see benefits after 50 years.

If they scrapped Brexit entirely and held a snap election, or called one on scrapping Brexit, I think the result would be a hung parliament in both instances.

A lot of the country hates Jeremy Corbyn and would vote Tory to keep him out, and a lot of centrist remainders would vote Tory if Corbyn was still backing Brexit.

Or it could be a landslide either way. Just don’t think it would cut the Tories out of power for any great length of time.

The hits, they keep on comin'.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/13-mile- ... ssion=true



Those are Conservative held councils, too, so no bipartisanship at work here.

Remember that far right POS Steve Bannon? Well there's now a petition to stop the c*nt from entering the UK -

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/225025

I'm all for it.

Depressing that all the key Brexiteers (Johnson, Gove, Reed-Mogg) love him, and have been AFAIK meeting with him with to try to get the far right onside for them.

I'd prefer he didn't come here but I think actually banning him would add more fuel to the fire than letting him in.

I posted about this before but it seems everything was a little raw, and I don't usually do politics because it just ends in arguments. Just remember, I am only the messenger boy. However, I will cover my own thoughts on it first.

OK, so I was going to go and vote Brexit but did not. The local council messed it up and it would have involved a 6 mile round trip. It didn't bother me that much... My reasons for Brexit? angry backlash at the Tories after they have brought my local mental health centre to its knees. It still sucks, and it's still on its knees and I guess it will be all of the time the Tories are involved. I don't know sod all about Brexit, what it means and what doing it will reveal but at the time I couldn't have given a shit. I am still very angry about it (like how I have had two suicide attempts because of how rotten the level of care is) but I don't think I would bother. I think every one who ever votes for anything does it solely for their reasons and how it affects them. I was just mad at Davey the Dickhead and I wanted to give him a slap. Obs not a real one, but seeing him with egg on his face would have done me.

OK, so down here we are in the "leave" category. It's quite overwhelming too, tbh. However, you need to realise that down here most every one is white. The only black guy I know is a taxi driver who ferries me to and 'fro mater's house and that is it (well, apart from my cousins who all moved down in the summer and all but one of the 4 girls has a black hubby). So people down here are quite backward, and we don't really have any "Muzzos" was it? because most of the towns down here until very recently were Parish towns. Meaning you had to pay about £4k in insurance on your house or risk losing it in the event of the Christian churches being damaged. I would assume that would also include not building any mosques? either way yeah, not many non white people down here.

So all of a sudden you have these people (now in their twilight years) being bombarded with Eastern Europeans. Not just a couple, or a few, but hundreds. So the way they look at it is "Oh look, the govt has completely lied about immigration and not done what they said they would !". I asked around at the time of Brexit, and I have remained discussing it with the people I meet and chat with (note, mostly very old). And that is how they look at it. And like has been pointed out, I really don't think you are going to change their minds. Oh and the other younger people? are just racist. Bognor seems pretty rife with that, especially in guys my age who grew up down here.

Now consider, most of these people, financially, have "made it". IE - either they sold their big expensive house in London and bailed down here (ending up with a large wodge of cash in their sky rocket) or they are on a pension. Meaning, it is quite doubtful they have much to lose voting Brexit, they just want to reduce the amount of immigrants down here. It also doesn't help that local papers always report all of the crimes carried out by Eastern Europeans, creating a dark image of them.

Me? I got along with the Polish people round my shop fine. I even bought their lunch meat and bread etc. However, that shop has now ceased to exist. I also had the Polish family below me (not nice, he used to beat his wife) move out.

Mind you, I would imagine that has been because of the dip in the economy...

Ooh, I’ve got a polish story!

I was at the petrol station yesterday and there was a polish woman at the till in front of me. She was so fiiiit. I was wearing shades so I had a good look without making her (or anyone) else feel uncomfortable. I’m all about being discreet.

True story that.

This is amazing, the government tried to deny that Operation Brock had anything to do with Brexit but the Kent council docs say it stands for Brexit Operations Across Kent, this is a Thick Of It style self-own.


https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 6974123008

Documents we obtained from Kent County Council show that “Brock” is in fact an acronym for “Brexit Operations Across Kent” /2 pic.twitter.com/rMcKbkARbh

— Faisal Islam (@faisalislam) July 31, 2018

Thanks for your post JC.

Fully understand how the desire to give the government a kick in the balls was a motivating factor for you. I don't think you're the only voter to acted (or in your case - wanted to have acted) in that way. We've been conditioned by FPTP to see a protest vote as a warning rather than something that might change anything, and that was exacerbated by the deliberate decision of the Leave people to be everything to everyone.

Still, it did get rid of him and trashed his reputation, so that aim at least was achieved. What happened to your vote? Did they muck up the postal arrangement?

@JC
We did the whole “why that would have been a self defeating piece of idiocy” to death about 50 pages back. I mean Jesus, you still have even the tiniest feeling that it would have been the right choice? A frankly pathetic “fuck you” that was never going to affect the people you were angry at? I’d have far more respect if you had actual reasons why you thought the EU was not a good thing to be part of, wrong as you might be.

There is a church about oo, 300ft from my place. So I walk down there with my card and they inform me that I actually have to vote at a school 3 miles away. It was a big thing me just walking down the street, so I just fucked off home.

Chris - as Kern has spotted it did affect those I was angry at. And will continue to do so, if it affects cheap labour and rich people getting richer. I used to vote every single year, and not once has it ever worked out better.

I'm hardly racist, given I grew up in SW London/Streatham/Brixton. If I were? I would be dead. So I really couldn't give a toss who comes over here. Fuck it, at least I will be dead one day. At which point none of it will affect me any way.

What we need is a change of this shit show running our country. It's not just us either, I mean, Trump. Nuff said there..... But yes, it clearly isn't working. At all. Even some one who pays no attention to politics knows that.