Taking the Brexit

miki · **Joined:** 30th Apr, 2011 **Posts:** 1458 **Location:** NL

I haven't checked if these are all true, but this looks interesting
it's still unlikely they will redo the referendum, as the rules were not in place beforehand, but 3,7 million on the petition now

zaphod79 · **Joined:** 16th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14508

miki wrote:

I haven't checked if these are all true, but this looks interesting
it's still unlikely they will redo the referendum, as the rules were not in place beforehand, but 3,7 million on the petition now

I remember the Irish one and the issues around having to re-do it because they 'voted' wrong :-)

I think the Irish question is one of the biggest things that could cause problems with the vote if it does go through and i've not seen anyone address it yet (although given Gove and Boris avoided the commons today they could be off and working on it for reals)

viewtopic.php?p=911626#p911626 (last post of that page so may have been missed with how quickly this thread moves)

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38584

The Irish Border issue was mentioned at PMQs today, so it's not being ignored at least

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

DavPaz wrote:

The Irish Border issue was mentioned at PMQs today, so it's not being ignored at least

That's not how I read it.

It was mentioned at PMQs, then totally ignored. There was no indication that any thought had been put into what to do.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Quote:

I do not believe millions who voted to leave will accept [the EU insisting on free migration] uncomplainingly. Johnson, Gove, Duncan Smith, Hannan, and Grayling – our generation’s guilty men – assured them that they could slash immigration from the EU at the same time as protecting their jobs, and spending tens of billions on taxes and services. They behaved as if the English could have it all: free access to the European single markets and immigration controls. They never said that a waiter would cough loudly and deliver a bill.

Now they are wriggling like lawyers trying to dodge the judge. We did not quite promise that, they maintain. You should have looked at the small print. ‘It is said that those who voted Leave were mainly driven by anxieties about immigration,’ intoned Johnson this morning as he prepared to U-turn and accept the conditions full access to EU markets entail. ‘I do not believe that is so.’

This is just incredible. No dictionary on earth has enough insults to describe the frivolity and cynicism of the Tory right. For the left-behind leave voters of working-class England, immigration was why they wanted out.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/br ... t-britain/

Dr Zoidberg · **Joined:** 15th Oct, 2010 **Posts:** 5322

A friend just posted this on Facebook - "Just heard from a Birmingham barrister friend of mine, who was told "we've voted for you to go home" whilst shopping in Waitrose. She is white British, but apparently looked slightly European."

Apparently the culprit was a typical middle aged woman you might expect to find in Waitrose.

asfish · **Joined:** 5th Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 3353

Well my family are going a bit nuts now..

Over the weekend a cousin shared a link to the petition for a 2nd referendum on Facebook with a load of her friends including me and our Uncle.

For some reason one of my old friends who I've known since 6 and now lives in Australia was including in the share group.

My friend and my Uncle (he has farmed in France for 25 years so was a remain supporter) are slugging it out on Facebook.

On top of this the same Uncle had a real go at my mum on the phone (she voted leave) so my brother has called the uncle and told him to watch himself.

My Dad will be getting involved next no doubt

Agent Starling · **Joined:** 8th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 1701

Cavey wrote:

Mimi wrote:

I am finding the whole Brexit result all very difficult. More so than I should, really.

I'm the same Mimi, I feel as though my political heart has been ripped from my chest. I never thought I could be laid so low.

Basically

.

I've never felt like this before (re politics stuff I mean) - just :spew:

.

In the past, if my 'side' loses a General Election, I'm down for a couple of days but then get over it, because it is what it is and we get another chance in 4-5 years etc etc. Plus the country doesn't generally tend to lose all its cash overnight.

But this... This is different, and horrible.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

I've felt awful after elections, but the difference between this one is that even if all players involved in running the country did exactly what I want them to do now, there will still be irreparable damage done.

Elections are for 4/5 years. This is forever.

Even if we end up remaining in the EU, the UK will never be the same again.

ApplePieOfDestiny · **Joined:** 17th Dec, 2008 **Posts:** 8293

asfish wrote:

Well my family are going a bit nuts now..

Over the weekend a cousin shared a link to the petition for a 2nd referendum on Facebook with a load of her friends including me and our Uncle.

For some reason one of my old friends who I've known since 6 and now lives in Australia was including in the share group.

My friend and my Uncle (he has farmed in France for 25 years so was a remain supporter) are slugging it out on Facebook.

On top of this the same Uncle had a real go at my mum on the phone (she voted leave) so my brother has called the uncle and told him to watch himself.

My Dad will be getting involved next no doubt

I have groups (all except...) on Facebook with exclusions for this type of thing.

(yes I know I don't have many people on Facebook, but the ones I do have are, Erm, diverse in their views).

Jem · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 21:41

Anyone want to add their tuppence worth to this?
https://www.facebook.com/jemjabella/pos ... 2543342663

It's way outside of my comfort/knowledge zone now

Agent Starling · **Joined:** 8th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 1701

It won't bring the money back, but at least England have just lost in the Euros.

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 21:57

Jem wrote:

Anyone want to add their tuppence worth to this?
https://www.facebook.com/jemjabella/pos ... 2543342663

It's way outside of my comfort/knowledge zone now

Page is either private or deleted.

Jem · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 22:22

Mr Dave wrote:

Jem wrote:

Anyone want to add their tuppence worth to this?
https://www.facebook.com/jemjabella/pos ... 2543342663

It's way outside of my comfort/knowledge zone now

Page is either private or deleted.

That means you've not added me on facebook yet Dave. I'll try not to take it personally :'(

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Jun 27, 2016 22:36

LewieP wrote:

I've felt awful after elections, but the difference between this one is that even if all players involved in running the country did exactly what I want them to do now, there will still be irreparable damage done.

Elections are for 4/5 years. This is forever.

Even if we end up remaining in the EU, the UK will never be the same again.

Did you get to vote, Lewie?

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38584

Jem wrote:

Mr Dave wrote:

Jem wrote:

Anyone want to add their tuppence worth to this?
https://www.facebook.com/jemjabella/pos ... 2543342663

It's way outside of my comfort/knowledge zone now

Page is either private or deleted.

That means you've not added me on facebook yet Dave. I'll try not to take it personally :'(

Me neither, but in my defence, I've never met you person, sadly.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

Grim... wrote:

LewieP wrote:

I've felt awful after elections, but the difference between this one is that even if all players involved in running the country did exactly what I want them to do now, there will still be irreparable damage done.

Elections are for 4/5 years. This is forever.

Even if we end up remaining in the EU, the UK will never be the same again.

Did you get to vote, Lewie?

Yep. Postal by proxy.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25844

I'll tell you what has REALLY wound me up, post Brexit, the number of 'stop whinging' posts from people I know on FB. Someone up thread said it well yesterday, after a result I do not favour in a GE I can pick myself up, realise that we have to shoulder and bake the best and that there is future room to reset the balance with future governments.

Thus just feels like it has changed the world.

So, stop whinging that this monumental change has come about on the back of a campaign of lies and promises that nobody intended to keep because nobody intended to win.

Stop whinging that people you called colleagues are now happy to display their prefjuduce without embarrassment, because they feel justified in their views because 'their side' won and you've just found out who people really are.

devilman · **Posted:** Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:39

I've barely made any comment on Facebook for that reason. The Leave voters amongst my friends were very vocal after the result (although less so now

) and were very quick to declare others as doom mongers for saying anything different. So much so, that I don't feel comfortable bringing posting anything on there about it now, which is partly why I started posting on here again, as I needed somewhere to vent. It certainly made me see new sides of people though.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25844

I've unfriended all the ones I know, including a close family member. One chap gave a quite thorough account of why he backed leave for economic terms as a business owner, which though I disagree with I think he's voted for the 'right' wrong reasons, if that makes sense, so I haven't unfriended him, but all the other small town xenophobes I've had to wave goodbye.

I'm pretty sure that the GF of one of my friends is racist, but smart and so has never posted anything even vaguely dodgy, but if she does I'll do the same there, even though we are quite close.

devilman · **Posted:** Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:57

I've just been using the 'unfollow' option for now, but I pop on to their page every now and again to see if they're spouting the same stuff. If they do, I'll unfriend them. One of the other reasons I've not mentioned it much on there is because my parents voted leave too and my Mum is on Facebook now so I need to watch my words a little.

Not actually sure why they voted leave other than perhaps The Sun told them to.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25844

My pride in my fellow human beings has also taken a dent. I used to live in JBR of the most pro-remain areas of the country, and now I live in one of the most pro-leave.

I can't help but feel a distaste for the population here. I actually think Walsall North and Walsall South have quite starkly different voting profiles, and a lot of the other constituencies that make up the Walsall area are very strong leave supporters.

It's also perhaps interesting to note that the area of Walsall I live in is quite middle class and mostly white British and Sikh families. Interesting to see those voter profile graphics that are around that gives Sikhs as being one of the largest pro-leave groups. I know when growing up that there was a lot of Muslim-Sikh tensions in the mixed communities where I lived. I wonder if the anti-Muslim hints to some of the leave campaigns (like Farage's poster and the suggestion of Turkey being in the EU have) have caused that to some degree?

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25844

devilman wrote:

I've just been using the 'unfollow' option for now, but I pop on to their page every now and again to see if they're spouting the same stuff. If they do, I'll unfriend them. One of the other reasons I've not mentioned it much on there is because my parents voted leave too and my Mum is on Facebook now so I need to watch my words a little.

Not actually sure why they voted leave other than perhaps The Sun told them to.

It's horrid just how much sway the media have over people's beliefs when the media is so corrupt. It's not like it isn't widely known that the Murdoch press is a filfthy lie-generating machine of xenophobia and hate... I just don't understand why people continue to buy it? I assume it's just habit... I just don't get it.

Well, at least you have here to pour your views out. I have posted on FB because I don't care if people unfriended me for being pro-remain and wanting to be part of a diverse and beautiful society of opportunity. I don't want to be 'friends' with people who are bigots snd racists.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25844

I'm not suggesting anyone else should be like that, it's just that my life up to this point has made it very easy to say goodbye to bad people with no regrets, and k don't give special excuse to family. I'm happy I don't speak to half my family, because I don't think they are good people.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

Farage interview

https://youtu.be/WrAHJ9fDHUU

If we do back out of Brexit, it's going to galvanize support for the far right.

He says that the "real prejudice" is prejudice against UKIP voters!

Utterly disgraceful for C4 to frame the interview this way. He's got no military background!

asfish · **Joined:** 5th Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 3353

The talk I heard in a local pub in Cornwall on Friday was all around "send them back" and no more fatcats etc

Also Leave posters in every other garden as you drove around the area

Then the Cornish County Council wrote to the government and asked them if they can guarantee to pay the 60 million a year they get from the EU :facepalm:

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16602

To be honest I feared the worst when I went to the pub on Friday night, it was about 2:1 for Leave round here. Whether people are just more shy about it when they encounter someone face to face who will actually discuss it with them but everyone I spoke to seemed to say that immigration had nothing to do with it. Although there is a long standing grudge in this town against the EU as there's a widespread perception that it was the reason that the fishing industry here was destroyed. I don't know enough about that to say how legitimate the grievance is but it was definitely something that came up in a couple of conversations. I don't do Facebook thankfully.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25844

I've only seen one single campaign placard here, and that was for remain, on a little stake in someone's front lawn. I saw the chap as he took it down the next day, as I walked to the library. I gave him a wan smile. I wanted to tell him that I was on his side, that I agreed, that I felt torn up, but I spent the day close to tears, so thought best as I was close to the edge of coping.

markg: I haven't Ben into 'town' yet, but have to go through the slightly rough area today to run some errands, and I'm genuinely nervous. Well, I'm always nervous, but more so than usual.

asfish · **Joined:** 5th Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 3353

I'm not sure with fishing, but didn't we have to let the EU fish the North Sea heavily as well? Also they all have to fish with quotas and do stupid things like throw perfectly good dead fish back into the sea because they would take them over quotas.

Certainly the price of fish these days is mental.

asfish · **Joined:** 5th Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 3353

LewieP wrote:

Farage interview

https://youtu.be/WrAHJ9fDHUU

If we do back out of Brexit, it's going to galvanize support for the far right.

He says that the "real prejudice" is prejudice against UKIP voters!

Utterly disgraceful for C4 to frame the interview this way. He's got no military background!

That is really bad framing, putting the whole thing around a huge war we fought with EU countries.

asfish · **Joined:** 5th Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 3353

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmlcJR-Rd4k

Interview with people from Hartlepool, 7\10 voted leave, all the people blame immigrants and are expecting a block or even people to be sent home.

What's true is that they is very high unemployment so you can sort of see how people wrongly arrive at the conclusions

Tragedy is the area was due 700 million in EU money

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25844

asfish wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmlcJR-Rd4k

Interview with people from Hartlepool, 7\10 voted leave, all the people blame immigrants and are expecting a block or even people to be sent home.

What's true is that they is very high unemployment so you can sort of see how people wrongly arrive at the conclusions

Tragedy is the area was due 700 million in EU money

High unemployment but relatively low levels of immigration.

There seems to be a bit of a trend, from some of the stories of individual towns emerging, that places with low levels of immigration seem to rally against immigration more.

I hate the 'send 'em all back' line. It makes my blood prickle in my veins.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:41

Mimi wrote:

My pride in my fellow human beings has also taken a dent. I used to live in JBR

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25844

'One' that should say

MaliA · **Posted:** Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:47

Osborne has muttered something about tax rises and public spending cuts

zaphod79 · **Joined:** 16th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14508

From the FT (behind the paywall here : https://t.co/Qsqth9fHI7)

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38584

The fishing industry was wrecked after the Cod War with... you guessed it: Iceland

JBR · **Joined:** 2nd Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 3280

Mimi wrote:

'One' that should say

I'm glad someone else pointed it out. Felt like I'd been called to the thread. And then when I got here...

myp · **Posted:** Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:06

Juncker throwing Farage some serious shade in the European Parliament.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:44

How we all feel:

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16602

I made the mistake of going on Facebook before, there's a cunt from work talking about how Farage should be knighted and calling him "Nige" so I took him off my friends list.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:11

Jesus... how can anyone think that what he's done is good in any way whatsoever?

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

Because they live in areas that suffered the brunt of Thatcherism and they read The Sun and The Daily Mail.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38584

LewieP wrote:

Because they live in areas that suffered the brunt of Thatcherism and they read The Sun and The Daily Mail.

And they're conditioned to obey

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16602

Thing is I wouldn't have really said any of this that about this guy. I mean we're not the wealthiest area but I don't feel that we've ever really seen anything like how some places got fucked. I also wouldn't have had him down as being someone so easily lead. But I suppose you get clever racists too, or else they wouldn't even be an issue.

ApplePieOfDestiny · **Joined:** 17th Dec, 2008 **Posts:** 8293

Acdording to Julia Hartley Brewer on Twitter, the leave campaign never said that they were racists, only remain did, so they obviously aren't racists. Glad she's resolved that one.

myp · **Posted:** Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:29

ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:

Acdording to Julia Hartley Brewer on Twitter, the leave campaign never said that they were racists, only remain did, so they obviously aren't racists. Glad she's resolved that one.

So it seems racism only exists when the perpetrators admit they are racist. Interesting.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:38

LewieP wrote:

Because they live in areas that suffered the brunt of Thatcherism and they read The Sun and The Daily Mail.

I can understand why they wanted to vote leave, but surely everyone can see the huge mistake it's been now. I mean who the frig thinks 'Nige' is a hero now?

Cavey · **Posted:** Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:11

LewieP wrote:

Because they live in areas that suffered the brunt of Thatcherism and they read The Sun and The Daily Mail.

Yeah, cause Thatcher took us out of Europe. Oh no.
Really not in a good mood for this puerile shite.

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:15

Cavey wrote:

LewieP wrote:

Because they live in areas that suffered the brunt of Thatcherism and they read The Sun and The Daily Mail.

Yeah, cause Thatcher took us out of Europe. Oh no.
Really not in a good mood for this puerile shite.

David Cameron did that. He gave a method of punishing him to people that he is fucking. You can't be angry at people for that.

I've never seen people so bitter in defeat in my entire life. Amazing really.

Be Excellent To Each Other

Taking the Brexit

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