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 Post subject: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:39 
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http://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/m ... bin-review

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As in his previous book, Does Spelling Matter? (the answer was yes, but not all the time), he is at his best when illustrating how modern usages that horrify linguistic purists in fact have deep historical roots. “OMG” was used by a septuagenarian naval hero, admiral of the fleet Lord Fisher, in 1917: so get over it. Long before Facebook, Thomas More, Shakespeare and Alexander Pope all wrote of people who’d been “un-friended”. Though Tesco was shamed by grammatical purists into altering the wording of its checkout signs from “10 items or less” to “Up to 10 items”, there’s no sound historical or logical basis for such pedantry. (As Horobin points out, the fact that the tills of its upmarket rival, Waitrose, read “10 items or fewer” cleverly confirms its customers in their false “sense of social and intellectual smugness and superiority”).


Which led me to http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/ ... fewer.html

Quote:
At any rate, people happily used “less” to mean “fewer” for some 900 years before anybody minded. In 1770, the grammarian Robert Baker suggested that “fewer” would be “not only more elegant … but more strictly proper” than “less” in a phrase like “no less than a hundred.” And that, according to Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary of English Usage, is how the “rule” for using these words was born.


I didn't realise the distinction was (relatively) so recent, or that Myp was such a friend to the Waitrose class.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:42 
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You didn't realise that Myp was such a friend to the Waitrose class?

“sense of social and intellectual smugness and superiority” is virtually a synonym for "myp"!

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:45 
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Shops round here use "basket only"

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:51 
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Excluding motorway service stations, the only time I bought something from Waitrose I didn't know what to do with the little green disc they gave me.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:52 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I didn't realise the distinction was (relatively) so recent


It's older than America.

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:54 
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I don't like "before anyone minded". I know it's the best kind of correct (like hanged instead of hung), but I don't like it.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:56 
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Cras wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I didn't realise the distinction was (relatively) so recent


It's older than America.

Like I said. Relatively recent.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:57 
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I get annoyed by the overuse of the word 'impact'. It's probably because nobody can be bothered to learn the difference between 'affect' and 'effect'. 'Impactful' is even worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:58 
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The effect of caffeine affects us all.

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:58 
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'Impactful' makes my fucking skin crawl. Just like 'addicting'.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:00 
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MaliA wrote:
The effect of caffeine affects us all.


Or as I learnt it:

'Alcohol affects me badly but ecstasy has bad effects'


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:00 
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People who type "could of" instead of "could have". People who type "are" instead of "our". "The Asda".

All of these should be a paddling.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:01 
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Kern wrote:
I get annoyed by the overuse of the word 'impact'. It's probably because nobody can be bothered to learn the difference between 'affect' and 'effect'. 'Impactful' is even worse.

These are some good learnings. Can I circle back with you if I have any more asks?


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:03 
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DavPaz wrote:
"The Asda".


Right? It's clearly "The A.S.D.As"

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:04 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
These are some good learnings. Can I circle back with you if I have any more asks?

A few weeks ago I was sent a slide deck I was going to present with a colleague. One of the slide titles was "Our Key Asks." You'd better believe I changed that.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:06 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
These are some good learnings. Can I circle back with you if I have any more asks?

A few weeks ago I was sent a slide deck I was going to present with a colleague. One of the slide titles was "Our Key Asks." You'd better believe I changed that.

"Our Key Ax's"


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:09 
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DavPaz wrote:
People who type "could of" instead of "could have". People who type "are" instead of "our". "The Asda".

All of these should be a paddling.

I think most of this annoyance comes down to the fact that until the Internet you would very rarely see what most people wrote. And you couldn't really tell if someone was saying "could have" or "could of", "are" or "our" etc.

People who only discovered less/fewer fairly recently are probably the worst nit pickers too, they're like ex-smokers or born again Christians.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:10 
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Or car evangelists.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:12 
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Cras wrote:
DavPaz wrote:
"The Asda".


Right? It's clearly "The A.S.D.As"


Associated Dairies

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:45 
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Bamba wrote:
'Impactful' makes my fucking skin crawl. Just like 'addicting'.

And 'gifted'/'gifting' in the context 'we're gifting them a toaster for their wedding'.

Oh, and 'actioned'.

'Have you actioned that work request?'

'Can you action that email?'

Gnghhh...

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:52 
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"Ping", as in "Ping me an email" fucking annoys me.

Also "sunset" as a verb.

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:52 
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Quote:
And 'gifted'/'gifting' in the context 'we're gifting them a toaster for their wedding'.


Regifting is acceptable, however.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:54 
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Grim... wrote:
Also "sunset" as a verb.

I don't think I've ever heard that. What does it even mean to sunset something?


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:56 
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markg wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Also "sunset" as a verb.

I don't think I've ever heard that. What does it even mean to sunset something?

To "sunset" a project is to get it ready to end and then end it, to my understanding.

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:56 
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I'm reformed these days. Say what you like.

But there is a special place in hell reserved for those who put a pluralised possessive apostrophe at the end of an initialism that ends in S.

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:56 
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Lonewolves wrote:
I'm reformed these days. Say what you like.

But there is a special place in hell reserved for those who put a pluralised possessive apostrophe at the end of an initialism that ends in S.

FFS's.

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:57 
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To close it down I think, I saw it used in a press release about Sony (or someone like that) shutting down a game development studio the other week - can't remember which one though, was it Lionhead?


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:58 
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Ugh, I second 'actioned'. But I'm also guilty of using it all the time :p This is the worst part - I usually adopt slang and bad grammar because I find it ironic, then start using it in my regular vocabulary. I'm a literary sadomasochist.

My peeve: people who shorten the word "though" as "thou". It's not that shortening language is offensive, but FFS just use "tho". "Thou" has a distinct pronunciation that breaks the entire flow of a sentence and makes you sound like a window-licking Shakespearian bellend.

Also, this topic reminds me of this: https://xkcd.com/1576/

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:59 
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Grim... wrote:
Lonewolves wrote:
I'm reformed these days. Say what you like.

But there is a special place in hell reserved for those who put a pluralised possessive apostrophe at the end of an initialism that ends in S.

FFS'.

Fixed.

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:03 
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Grim... wrote:
markg wrote:
Grim... wrote:
Also "sunset" as a verb.

I don't think I've ever heard that. What does it even mean to sunset something?

To "sunset" a project is to get it ready to end and then end it, to my understanding.

Hmm, yeah that doesn't really add anything to just saying "get it finished" does it?

I don't really mind new words and such if their meaning is obvious and they are some sort of alternative to a longer-winded way of saying it. So even though I agree with Mimi that "actioned" sounds awful saying "have you actioned x's email" is also a bit quicker than saying "have you done what x asked you to do in their email?".


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:17 
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Sunset typically means "we've not turned this off, but we're not going to do any work on it because it'll be going away soon" - and I'm okay with that, because it kind of makes sense. It's not EOL, but it's almost there.

Ping I quite concur with. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. No part of what ping does bears any reference to what an email does.

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:22 
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Cras wrote:
Sunset typically means "we've not turned this off, but we're not going to do any work on it because it'll be going away soon" - and I'm okay with that, because it kind of makes sense. It's not EOL, but it's almost there.

Ping I quite concur with. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. No part of what ping does bears any reference to what an email does.

PING! You have Mail!


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:28 
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ping -t craster

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:30 
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Ping request could not find host craster. Please check the name and try again.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:31 
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Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi
Hi

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:31 
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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:32 
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TTL = ten years if I start eating less pork

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:47 
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Here's a hardy perennial that I don't like because I don't understand it (see also: oh so many things, ha). Favourite shortened to "fav". Eh? Can Dave be written as Dav? Or do people who do that pronounce it as "their fav thing"? Weird.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:49 
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JBR wrote:
Here's a hardy perennial that I don't like because I don't understand it (see also: oh so many things, ha). Favourite shortened to "fav". Eh? Can Dave be written as Dav? Or do people who do that pronounce it as "their fav thing"? Weird.

Cleary "Dav" would be short for Davourite.

I believe this might be a Twitter thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:49 
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Oh yes, Davourite. Reminds me, must go see him about a dog. Or a do, I forget.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:56 
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Cras wrote:
TTL = ten years if I start eating less pork

Fewer porks

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 13:01 
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Lonewolves wrote:
Cras wrote:
TTL = ten years if I start eating less pork

Fewer porks


Title

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 14:36 
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JBR wrote:
Here's a hardy perennial that I don't like because I don't understand it (see also: oh so many things, ha). Favourite shortened to "fav". Eh? Can Dave be written as Dav? Or do people who do that pronounce it as "their fav thing"? Weird.


I know ho we should ask... Davpaz.

So, Davpaz, can Dave be written as Dav?

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 14:39 
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No.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 14:40 
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Mr Dave wrote:
No.

Wasn't asking you.

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 14:54 
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No


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 14:55 
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Expanding on my answer.... my username is pronounced "dav paz" not "dave paz"

Some crazy guy I know from Osset calls me Dav, but he's a bass player.


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 14:57 
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You don't get to decide how it's pronounced. Just like the guy who came up with gif doesn't.

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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 15:01 
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Cras wrote:
You don't get to decide how it's pronounced. Just like the guy who came up with gif doesn't.

Or Dr Lave


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 Post subject: Re: Less vs fewer
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 15:15 
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or Craister and Grime... and Zeeoh

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