Political Banter and Debate Thread

Cavey · **Posted:** Wed Nov 25, 2015 23:40

Feck me just seen the Chairman Mao despatch box special on the news.... If I was a Labourite I'd be crying into my beer. Face palm hardly covers it what a total bellend

Anonymous X · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2046

Ideally social housing would be the regular rental housing in this country, as it is essentially in many European countries. That coupled with rental controls, of course. (Think of the advantages - lower housing benefits bill for the Exchequer, more people able to save up deposit for a mortgage, no more parasitic buy-to-let landlords endlessly pushing up house prices...)

The housing market here is as fucked and inequitable as healthcare provision is in the States, and it's being deliberately kept in this situation needlessly for similar reasons.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

It's not really deliberate or needless - as Doc linked to on the previous page, rent controls wouldn't really fix things, and what other solutions are there?

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 0:05

As long as all these social housing things aren't near a school where Cap'n Shitpants is going to go, I am fine with that. We'll move in a couple of years into the catchment area of one of the good secondary schools.

Incidentally, £33k per annum is needed to get an 80% mortgage for a place in Bradford. £12k over average wage.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Anonymous X wrote:

no more parasitic buy-to-let landlords endlessly pushing up house prices...

I don't see how buy-to-let landlords can inflate housing bubbles, because as a straightforward business proposition they are as tied to the intrinsic value of property (ie. what they can afford to charge as rent) as anyone buying a house to live in.

Where it gets complicated is where a BTL landlord is also an investor; the rent maybe covers the mortgage, but delivers no return. The return that justifies the hassle is assumed to come from rises in house prices. But they are just as vulnerable to the bubble popping as any other investor, because most of them are mortgaged to the hilt. If rents fall even a little, so they no longer cover mortgage and other outgoings, and prices fall to put them in negative equity, then I think we could see a real bloodletting in London.

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:17

Looks like Osborne is considering selling off some or all of the Ordnance Survey. I'm not against private investment per se, but I'd oppose anything that risks the ending of their paper map range. From a business mindset those would be the first to go as they aren't where the profits.

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:42

If it weren't for buy-to-let folks, lots of people that couldn't afford to buy a place would be homeless.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38642

Grim... wrote:

If it weren't for buy-to-let folks, lots of people that couldn't afford to buy a place would be homeless.

Not to mention those pesky migrants that can earn good wages, but struggle to get any kind of mortgage.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16625

Weird, most people I know involved in it seem to regard it as a fairly piss easy way to make even more money if you have some spare cash knocking about but over the last day I keep hearing that buy to let landlords are somehow selflessly serving the community.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:56

markg wrote:

Weird, most people I know involved in it seem to regard it as a fairly piss easy way to make even more money if you have some spare cash knocking about but over the last day I keep hearing that buy to let landlords are somehow selflessly serving the community.

I considered buying a place and renting it out. However, my back of fag packet calculations suggested it'd end up being a lot of effort for the monthly return, so I coyldn't be bothered. I was probably wrong.

Dr Zoidberg · **Joined:** 15th Oct, 2010 **Posts:** 5386

I let out my old house for a couple of years, and it was not a hugely profitable exercise except for the estate agents.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:13

Dr Zoidberg wrote:

I let out my old house for a couple of years, and it was not a hugely profitable exercise except for the estate agents.

Yeah, I think that was my reasoning. The rent available would cover the mortgage and management fees. I would need a slush pool of cash for repairs and for the ash left at the end of each month, I figured it was better off going on existing mortgage. That, and I am bone idle.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:19

Buy-to-let is a longer term proposition for the most part.

Chap who owns my house probably paid about 200k for it ten years ago. As rents have risen along with property prices, my rent will cover more than the mortgage payments. In the meantime, he's clocked up over 200k in the rise of the property value.

He's also a fucking terrible landlord. But he's raking it in for no effort. Just got on the ladder at the right time.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:20

Grim... wrote:

If it weren't for buy-to-let folks, lots of people that couldn't afford to buy a place would be homeless.

Hard to tell, to be honest. There would still be large investment portfolios of properties for institutions that want a solid but unspectacular return, and councils and trusts would have a lot more property for those in genuine need. And prices would, of course, be far, far lower.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22387

Kern wrote:

Looks like Osborne is considering selling off some or all of the Ordnance Survey. I'm not against private investment per se, but I'd oppose anything that risks the ending of their paper map range. From a business mindset those would be the first to go as they aren't where the profits.

Having dealt with them quite a bit on a previous project, they have no idea how to run a business in the new world of digital mapping, which is a shame. Too archaic and stuck in old business models to survive unless serious changes are made.

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:23

Curiosity wrote:

Hard to tell, to be honest.

Yeah, I guess you're ri...

Curiosity wrote:

There would still be large investment portfolios of properties for institutions that want a solid but unspectacular return, and councils and trusts would have a lot more property for those in genuine need. And prices would, of course, be far, far lower.

Oh. Not that hard to tell if you're a psychic, I guess?

myp · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:25

Rents have dropped in my area. I rented a similar-sized flat in my area ten years ago and it was £575 pcm. Apparently I can rent mine out now for £500ish, and the mortgage is £450. So not really worth it.

A couple of years ago my flat would have rented for about £700.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:32

Curiosity wrote:

Buy-to-let is a longer term proposition for the most part.

Chap who owns my house probably paid about 200k for it ten years ago. As rents have risen along with property prices, my rent will cover more than the mortgage payments. In the meantime, he's clocked up over 200k in the rise of the property value.

He's also a fucking terrible landlord. But he's raking it in for no effort. Just got on the ladder at the right time.

Yes, I think the barrier to entry is fairly high now.

A 2 bed terrace in Bingley runs in at about£110k. You can rent one for £550pcm. So the returns would be more linked to the long term.

Dr Zoidberg · **Joined:** 15th Oct, 2010 **Posts:** 5386

MaliA wrote:

Dr Zoidberg wrote:

I let out my old house for a couple of years, and it was not a hugely profitable exercise except for the estate agents.

Yeah, I think that was my reasoning. The rent available would cover the mortgage and management fees. I would need a slush pool of cash for repairs and for the ash left at the end of each month, I figured it was better off going on existing mortgage. That, and I am bone idle.

I got consent to lease from my existing mortgage company, so of the £600 rent, £72 went to the estate agents and about £300 went on an interest only mortgage.

£230 a month "profit" on the £20k equity seems reasonable at first glance, but I lost 40% in tax, so about £135 a month to me.

Paying that £20k off on my new house would have saved me probably £80 so I was actually £50 a month better off renting out my old house in the short term and that really isn't worth the stress.

At the end of two years I would have needed to move onto a proper buy to let mortgage which was much more costly. I could have binned the estate agents and saved some money there but I knew there would be work needed on the house soon so I bailed and sold it to one of the tenants.

It is still possible to make a profit, but you need to be there for a longer period and ideally treat the tenants badly which I wasn't prepared to do.

I'm convinced there's a far better return to be made buying properties to renovate and resell.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16625

Future Warrior wrote:

Rents have dropped in my area.

Do you find that happens a lot?

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:46

I think so, but the drawback is you'd need a pool of cash to bankroll it each time, and capital gains may bite. I think not being able to put hands on £25k+ at shortish notice could be tricky for many. I would be tempted with the back to back terraces around here as there are fewer rooms, but SPQR could kick in.

Dr Zoidberg · **Joined:** 15th Oct, 2010 **Posts:** 5386

Senatus populusque romanus?

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:55

markg wrote:

Future Warrior wrote:

Rents have dropped in my area.

Do you find that happens a lot?

L-lol

Kern · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:56

Dr Zoidberg wrote:

Senatus populusque romanus?

I was quite pleased that in St George's Hall in Liverpool some of the decor contains 'SPQL' motifs. Less pleased that I had to explain this to the friends I was with.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 13:28

Dr Zoidberg wrote:

Senatus populusque romanus?

Small profit quick returns.

Dr Zoidberg · **Joined:** 15th Oct, 2010 **Posts:** 5386

Thanks. Hadn't heard that acronym before.

DBSnappa · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 13:41

Dr Zoidberg wrote:

Thanks. Hadn't heard that acronym before.

Technically speaking it's an abbreviation. An acronym has to form a word and SPQR isn't a word.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16625

Yes it is, it's pronounced spkwer.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 13:59

DBSnappa wrote:

Dr Zoidberg wrote:

Thanks. Hadn't heard that acronym before.

Technically speaking it's an abbreviation. An acronym has to form a word and SPQR isn't a word.

Actually it's an initialism. An abbrev. is a shortening of an existing word.

Malc · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 14:06

you can abbreviate more than one word though. So I think DBSnappa was still correct, just not as precise as your refinement.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 14:08

Malc wrote:

you can abbreviate more than one word though. So I think DBSnappa was still correct, just not as precise as your refinement.

Abbreviating words down to single characters is either an acronym or an initialism, depending on whether you can pronounce it as a word or not.

Malc · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 14:08

Wikipedia seems to contradict itself several times:

Quote:

An abbreviation (from Latin brevis, meaning short) is a shortened form of a word or phrase. It consists of a group of letters taken from the word or phrase. For example, the word abbreviation can itself be represented by the abbreviation abbr., abbrv. or abbrev.

In strict analysis, abbreviations should not be confused with contractions, acronyms, or initialisms, with which they share some semantic and phonetic functions, though all four are connoted by the term "abbreviation" in loose parlance.[1]:p167An abbreviation is a shortening by any method; a contraction is a reduction of size by the drawing together of the parts. A contraction of a word is made by omitting certain letters or syllables and bringing together the first and last letters or elements; an abbreviation may be made by omitting certain portions from the interior or by cutting off a part. A contraction is an abbreviation, but an abbreviation is not necessarily a contraction. Acronyms and initialisms are regarded as subsets of abbreviations (e.g. by the Council of Science Editors). They are abbreviations that consist of the initial letters or parts of words.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 14:10

Seems pretty clear to me. We are both right, although I am more right.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

Future Warrior wrote:

DBSnappa wrote:

Dr Zoidberg wrote:

Thanks. Hadn't heard that acronym before.

Technically speaking it's an abbreviation. An acronym has to form a word and SPQR isn't a word.

Actually it's an initialism. An abbrev. is a shortening of an existing word.

You're an initialism, you foetid, unspeakable, turgid, unbearably rank ejaculate with a rancid, rotten, inferior oratorial ranking

(Struggled a bit at the end there)

myp · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 14:14

Cras wrote:

Future Warrior wrote:

DBSnappa wrote:

Dr Zoidberg wrote:

Thanks. Hadn't heard that acronym before.

Technically speaking it's an abbreviation. An acronym has to form a word and SPQR isn't a word.

Actually it's an initialism. An abbrev. is a shortening of an existing word.

You're an initialism, you foetid, unspeakable, turgid, unbearably rank ejaculate with a rancid, rotten, inferior oratorial ranking

(Struggled a bit at the end there)

GazChap · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 14:21

Malc wrote:

Wikipedia seems to contradict itself several times

Film at 11!

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu Nov 26, 2015 23:32

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/chairman-lmao-051

Cavey · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:03

I'm in the audience at R4's Any Questions? tonight (if they let me in lulz)

Question to BeexHiveMind: Any ideas of a really good question to ask the panel?

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:08

Who's on?

Cavey · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:12

Grim... wrote:

Who's on?

From BBC website:

Quote:

Jonathan Dimbleby presents political debate and discussion from the Brooks Building at Manchester Metropolitan University with Financial Secretary to the Treasury David Gauke MP, the Editor of Prospect magazine Bronwen Maddox, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer John McDonnell MP, and Simon Stevens the Chief Executive of NHS England.

So, John McDonnell eh? Oh goody. :metul:

Kern · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:44

Cavey wrote:

I'm in the audience at R4's Any Questions? tonight (if they let me in lulz)

Question to BeexHiveMind: Any ideas of a really good question to ask the panel?

'Is it too early to plant my bulbs for spring flowering?'

Cavey · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:45

Hmph. (

)

Well, in the absence of any more specific suggestions, I'm going to take the intellectual high ground with "hey Jonathan, what's going on with Labour right now LOLZ?"

I'm sure that'll make the cut.

Edit @ Kern - meh, thanks mate but that's a daft suggestion, those Spring bulbs should've been planted last month!

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:45

"What lessons in leadership has labour learned, of late"

Curiosity · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:46

"Do you think the mainstream media collectively decides the results of general elections more than any other single influencing factor?"

Cavey · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:47

MaliA wrote:

"What lessons in leadership has labour learned, of late"

Heh. They've only got a 40 minute slot, man.

Kern · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:48

Whose civil war is more newsworthy - Syria's or Labour's?

Should politicians quote more political theory in the Commons?

Does anyone care about the Commonwealth?

I think you should aim for the obligatory unfunny 'funny' question they have at the end but whenever I think about Corbyn's leadership potential I feel sad.

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:48

"To prevent terror attacks on Britain, especially in times of austerity, why ate we talking about bombing a country half a world away when the closer, more ommediate threat comes from Belgium?"

"Why are we still talking to the Saudis?"

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:49

"Is george galloway still a thing?"

Kern · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:50

'Is Osborne a skillful politician, or an oppurtunistic one?'

Cavey · **Posted:** Fri Nov 27, 2015 15:52

To be serious for one minute

my question suggestion is "Why aren't the Middle Eastern States, with their huge resources (military and financial), not to mention moral duty and imperative, doing any of the heavy lifting with Isis, as this is their backyard, not ours. We didn't expect Saudi Arabia to sort out Northern Ireland?"

Be Excellent To Each Other

Political Banter and Debate Thread
Countdown to a flight-free UK

Who is online

Be Excellent To Each Other

Political Banter and Debate Thread Countdown to a flight-free UK

Who is online

Political Banter and Debate Thread
Countdown to a flight-free UK