Be Excellent To Each Other

Yeah, there are a lot of jokes we could do like isn't every day international men's day, etc, but real men's issues are actually very important (not to be confused with Men's Rights Activists who are a hive of scum and villainy, and only exist to shout at women).

Suicide is the biggest killer of men between the ages of 20-49*, and much of this is to do with the pressure we face in society. It is not seen as manly to cry, be sensitive or talk about our feelings. So for today I am shedding my Personal Brand^TM of sarcastic idiocy and saying to anyone on here if they are struggling with mental health issues, disability or anything else that they feel they cannot talk about to their close friends and family, feel free to drop me a PM and I will be more than happy to listen and offer advice if asked.

* http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... ressed-men
http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/24/suicide-b ... r-3556960/
https://www.thecalmzone.net/2014/02/onssuicidereport/

Hello, I'm Matt, and I'm a man.

Many of you know that I had depression in the early part of this millennium, caused by a combination of women and employment. I was pretty lucky in that it only lasted for a few months, and it went away without needing any medication after a few chats with a doctor.

I don't think any of you know that I also had postnatal depression when the Grimlet was born, which is rare in fathers and powerful shitty for everyone, because as if Mrs Grim... didn't have enough to deal with. I didn't talk to anyone about that because I'm a fucking idiot, and while the feeling of "frantic numbness" (for want of a better way to describe it) went away, I don't think it ever left me completely - when I say "don't have kids" I really mean it.

While I don't want to impune upon Myp's offer to listen, you really should go and see a doctor if you think you might be suffering from any sort of mental illness, even if it's a mental illness that's normally caused / exacerbated by the massive hormone change in a woman's body when she gives birth

Don't be a dick just because you've got a dick!

/sits down

I'm sorry you went through this, it must have been a very tough time for you. Well done for having the bravery to post this.

I absolutely agree anyone who is experiencing mental health issues should see their doctor, it's one of the first things I suggest when anyone tells me they're struggling. However sometimes you need someone else to bounce ideas off first, and like I said I'm happy to listen.

I am also Matt and also a man. I've struggled with depression for most of my life, even as a child. I also had behavioural and temper issues which were retrospectively diagnosed as Asperger's Syndrome (now part of Autistic Spectrum Disorder). This made it difficult for me to form relationships and make friends as a youngster, and I was bullied at school as a result. I've worked very hard to learn a lot of social cues, body language etc, which isn't innate to me like most people, and by and large I function reasonably well these days.

My divorce hit me pretty hard last year and it was a pretty terrible time for me. After that I met the most wonderful woman I'd ever met, but as she is 16 years older than me she was unable to give me the children we both definitely wanted, I took the most difficult decision to break up with the love of my life. However, I have just recently met someone new and feel optimistic that it could turn into something serious.

I owe my friends (including some of you) and family immense gratitude for keeping me going through it all. I am very lucky to have such a wonderful support network.

I still suffer from depression and since 2008 have had an anxiety disorder too. I take 40mg of Citalopram to combat this, which is the highest safe dosage. However I have been feeling a lot better recently, so if this upward trend continues I will look at reducing this next year.

Without a doubt I have some sort of Bi Polar, tick a number of the boxes.

I drink too much, don't drink in the week, but I can stuff a bottle of wine away without a second thought as well as 300ml (not with the wine!) of vodka (over a number of drinks with mixers)

Also finding myself having to collect or buy things, something like emulation sets usually, and I can be very self-destructive with gambling so much so that I no longer take my wallet to work to avoid the trap of debit card lunchtime gambling

Ironically my wife has some post-natal issues and anxiety as well as a bit of OCD (which I think most of us have) and is taking Prozac for it. She is now telling me what a nightmare I can be so in an odd way its helping me change. I can be a cunt to live with and it’s caused some issues with my marriage.

Think the turning point for me was when my wife said she wanted to hold off on another kid as we were fighting all the time, and also didn’t want to extend the house as she couldn’t face me getting pissed off an angry all the time over the inevitable builder’s delays and problems we will face.

The fighting and my wife almost having a breakdown over obsessions with my son (not helped by me I’m sure) has led to nobody wanting to come and stay with us at Christmas. Everyone’s polite but they don’t like the fighting.

Don't really fancy taking Lithium but am aiming to get on the Prozac myself I think, just making internal excuses re not calling the Dr at the moment.

Need to sort myself out though.

I'm sorry you're struggling with these issues at the moment. I am here for you if you ever need anyone to listen. Thanks for speaking up - you are not alone.

Thanks its not something that stops me working\living but I need to change or I will end up divorced

Well said, Matts.

Although I haven't been personally affected my depression, my Mum and Sister both suffer horribly with it.

As for what Grim... said about not having kids, remember, Your Milage May Vary. Speaking for myself, having kids was an amazingly transformative and positive experience, which made me realise how selfish and limited a human mind can be. Since becoming a Dad to a wonderful, energetic and very bright daughter, I realised that being a MAN isn't just about being MANLY. I still catch myself, especially when playing with my fireball of a son, trotting out the old sayings like "Stop being a girl" or "man up!" or "you throw like a girl".

I've said it before, nothing will make you a feminist quicker than having a daughter!

Happy Man's Day, dudes.

I'm sorry to hear this, but I'm glad they've got you in the family to support them. You are a strong reliable person and I'm sure they really appreciate it.


I'm really glad that having children has been a wonderful experience for you, and how much you've grown as a person during that time. Not everyone does, so it's something to be proud of.

Yes indeed.

My $0.02 in case it's of any use to anyone. Warning: ended up being much longer and self-indulgent than I'd planned!

I'd never had any mental health issues at all and was pretty happy and stable in my moods and emotions. Last year though that changed and things went downhill, resulting in a Christmas period that was a really shitty time to be in my head. A low dose of sertraline was an utter fucking nightmare to adjust to over the course of the first week (as if I had a load of stale, greasy serotonin just sloshing around in my head) and I strongly considered giving up on it. Thankfully I persevered and as soon the first week passed all the shitty physical feelings dropped away leaving me feeling mentally better than I had done in quite a while. Better living through chemistry!

Thankfully that's continued since then and now I wouldn't describe myself as being at all depressed. Indeed I'm continually surprised and grateful at how good my mood generally is given the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome I'm still struggling with; which I always feel should be affecting me more negatively than it actually is. Being the slimmest and fittest I've literally ever been is no doubt playing a part there but I do sometimes get concerned with how much I'm being propped up by the pills and what would happen if I stopped taking them. Not just in terms of what impact it would have on my general mental health but also what kind of withdrawal I'd face from having taken them long term. I try not to worry about that though because as long as I feel good that's all that matters I think. Thankfully I also experience only a single and very mild side-effect from the pills, which is pretty TMI so I won't bore anyone with it.

The actual reasons for this bout of depression aren't easy to pin down. A lot of stuff changed for me over the course of that year but none of it feels like a trigger point when I turn it over in my mind. Maybe I'm fooling myself there. Maybe it was a combination of stuff. Maybe it was completely random and there was no real precipitating factor. Stuff that's on the possibilities list though:

• My last job. I'd always liked working where I did but was put onto a project that was awful and stressful and really, really badly managed in general. Not helped by the fact that my direct boss for that period turned out to be a cunt and basically betrayed me quite badly. This whole thing haunts me to an extent to this day and undermined my self confidence massively for a while.
• My new job. Obviously I was glad to get out of the previous company but I'm always quite miserable when acclimatising to a new job so this was a temporarily negative factor. I hate being the new guy who doesn't know shit and it makes things quite boring because it's harder to engage.
• The breakup of a long term relationship. We should have split up long before we did and actually doing it was quite a positive experience that brought a lot of relief on both sides, but obviously these things still aren't without their upheaval and my living situation was a fucking total sketch for about four months of the year. Weirdly that ended up being a very positive change though and I'm thoroughly enjoying for the moment being on my own and being able to do whatever I want whenever I want. Amusingly this does make me worry I'm some kind of fucking sociopath and I'll never actually be properly happy in a relationship, but that's a whole other thing.
• Random seeming health problems that only eventually got me a diagnosis of CFH. Knowing there's no understanding of or cure for this and it could randomly get better/worse isn't obviously a brilliant thing to be facing down.
• Being rejected romantically by an old flame. There was a lot of unfinished business here--to an extent there still is--and I put a lot of store into what happened between us so this hit me really hard and, it felt at the time, came out of the blue when things had been going very well. This whole thing is still a mental bruise but it's so much better than it was six months ago.

Anyway, things are pretty good now and I would genuinely describe myself as 'happy' at the moment. The very fact that I'm doing things like going on holiday on my own and arranging to spend an evening at a pub quiz with lots of random internet weirdos seem like positive signs for my motivation, confidence and general joie de vivre. Obviously life isn't perfect and there is stuff I would like to and should be changing but I'm facing it all cheerfully which is fine for now. Just like last year I'll probably end up taking a few weeks off over Christmas and I'm already looking forward to that being a proper, fun break rather than the fucking misery it ended up being last year.

Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry you went through such a tough time, but I'm really glad you're in a much happier place now. I'm always around to listen if you need to talk about stuff.

Thanks man, and that goes both ways of course.

Echoing myp's post, if anyone feels like they need someone to talk to then feel free to shoot me a PM. I'm terrible at giving advice, but I like to think I'm a stonkingly good listener and am happy for people to bounce things off me if they need it.

As for me, I went through a brief period of depression when I was a teenager which was never medically diagnosed or anything, but it was fairly clear that's what was happening and one of my school teachers noticed it and took me to one side one day and, through regular "checkups" with her she supported me through it and I came out the other end unscathed. Changed my opinion of her completely too, she was our Head of Year and a maths teacher, and had a reputation as being a "dragon" who would shout at the slightest provocation and was very strict. I feel privileged that I got to see a different side to her.

Other than that, I still struggle a bit with social anxiety in situations where I'm around lots of people I've never met before but am expected to interact with - and sometimes even people I know well. I like to think I muddle my way through and seem to be OK at "faking" confidence in some situations, but who knows really.

Just the same for me, I tell my son I love him every day and how much I think about him and miss him when I'm at work. So far he appears to be frighten of nothing other that the garage door so I don't have to consider how he feels about many things

He plays with kitchens and has a huge collection of soft toys, he is 2 though so that's not something you can say in unmanly really!

Just remember, if he grows up and still wants to play with soft toys and kitchens that is ok too. Just as it's ok for girls to like dinosaurs and cars.

I can't say I've ever been depressed because the symptoms of depression are far more serious than anything I have encountered. I am idiotically optimistic and have a genuine inability to remember much of what has happened in the past or fully plan out my future properly. That's why I have never been single for more than about 6 months since I was 20 because I need the steadying, less idiotic, influence of a woman in my life to control the immature twat that is sat behind the steering wheel in my brain.

I have had bad times (fruit machine addiction, divorce, unemployment, debt, loss of family members) but nothing that really took me to the depths of despair.

However - before I went through my divorce I went through counselling to try and fix what was broken and that (despite me still getting divorced) was one of the most useful experiences I have ever had. It made me understand my behaviour more and these days I rarely get angry about stupid stuff like I used to and I realise when I am leaping to the worst possible conclusion ("OH Mike didn't say good morning to me - that must mean he HATES ME AND EVERYTHING ABOUT ME" when in fact Mike's more than likely wrapped up in his own problems that have nothing to do with me) and filling in blanks with shit about me. Basic CBT yes but it really made a difference to my outlook on life.

So I suppose what I am saying is that I agree with most of the above - talking to someone - be it a professional or a trusted confidant (I've since talked to the current girlfriend about all this and more and she's been a great sounding board and continues to help me grow) is the best way to make you realise that you are in no way the only one experiencing those problems and that nothing is permanent - we've all been through stuff and we're all still here and probably stronger than we were before.

Well it sounds like you've had periods of it, you are doing yourself a disservice by saying "others have it worse". Your problems are real and they are important.

Thank you for sharing.

Yes, MRAs do tend to do that a lot, don't they?

Anyway. Depression and illnesses related to it are intensely unpleasant and certainly there needs to be more encouragement of discussion, particularly for men - I know I'd be in a drastically different place right now if I didn't have a couple of people I can trust with my miserable, introverted angst.

Thank you to those of you sharing sensitive and personal information. EBG, your posts are massively unhelpful and derailing. Please don't.

That's a shame. I can't see his posts as they're often far too inflammatory, rude and personally insulting for me to read and still find this an enjoyable place to be, but it's very disappointing. I sincerely hope he comes to terms with whatever causes him to be so angry and confrontational all the time, and learns to love himself and others a bit more.

This is not a good time to make an exception. He's talking about red pills.

So he's gone full MRA. That is really sad. I can see why it's seductive to men who feel the world is against them and everyone else is to blame for their misfortune, but it's really damaging and toxic to men.

Thank you.

Get your head out of your fucking arsehole Gaywood and actually investigate the topic at hand. The fact the documentary is called The Red Pill has absolutely no connection to the subreddit of the same name.

Actually it's a reference to The Matrix and going down the rabbit hole into a different world. But no, make your ridiculous assumptions based on the title and then cue Myp making yet more assumptions about the content of my posts based off that. It's absolutely, utterly, astounding fucking ludicrous.

myp: 'tell me about your problems' unless I've blocked you, because I'm so up for listening to your Men's issues, unless I don't like you.

Beex: where we're all very high minded about well-judged about things, unless it's something we superficially and ignorantly disagree with at which point we'll unironically criticise and generalise those people who we think make criticisms and generalisations about others, but we're better people somehow!

Hello all, I don't post very often but felt that perhaps today I should.

I was enjoying this particular thread over lunch, I genuinely felt privileged that some people were prepared to openly discuss some very personal issues. Myp, I think that you did a decent thing and those that have posted good on you.

However, EBG I am genuinely struggling to understand why you've chosen to dive into this particular thread and make an issue and attempt to create drama. You seem to do this often - do you take some sick pleasure out of goading arguments out of people? Would you really behave like this with others that you've know for so long?

Actually, don't answer I don't care.

I think that you might be a enjoying being a bit of a cantankerous cunt? Couldn't you just fuck off to some other part of the internet and share your petty spite with people who revel in the same monotonous bullshit? I'm sure there are some other communities that thrive on petty, in fighting - do you think that now might be your time to go and join them?

tl;dr EBG, stop being a prick or fuck off. You're annoying the shit out of me.

Sorry that I took exception to the SJW that made this thread talking about men's issues whilst slandering those that stand up for men's issues and men's rights every day. So cantankerous.

Not really helping your case are you?

Suffice to say that I don't care what you think about my posts or the reason for them. It's more that everyone else is working very hard at trying to preserve the kind of echo-chamber they want in a discussion.

I feel an increasingly isolated. This doesn't please me.

Oh, and I'm currently on tje way to hospital having aquired some fairly horrific pain last night GP had no idea. I am worried.

Happy Mans Day.

Good vibes to that man.

EBG, get over yerself, man.

I'm sorry about this. You are a good friend of mine and I feel bad we don't see or talk to each other as often as we might. Just know I am always here if need to talk about anything or even if you're just feeling lonely.


Fingers crossed it's nothing serious. Please keep us updated.

I don't know this Elephant person, but I like this post and I like everyone except that cunt.

I'm not here often but I'm always available to talk or answer questions about medications. Just tell Doc G.

Cwtches to everyone,
Danielle

Anyway...

I'm not a man but I have two sons and a boyfriend, and he also has two sons. I have a house full of men and men-in-training so it's important to me that men feel they can share their thoughts and problems with someone. My kids talk to me about things, the eldest also talks to his girlfriend about things he doesn't want to talk to me about! I know though as they get older, they will naturally talk to me less, there will be things they feel they can't speak to their girlfriends about too. I'd be so glad to know they had people like this to talk to and get advice from without being judged for not being 'a man'.

Yo Doc - Danielle's always available to talk or answer questions about medications.

You and Rich were amazing when I split up with Ange. I will never forget it.

This is great. You are a wonderful mother and person.

Just to be clear, please don't ask me about medications. I am a doctor - but not one that helps people.

Seriously though I think this thread is wonderful. If IMD can give men an avenue to discuss mental and emotional issues, as has happened in this thread, than I think that's fantastic.

I know I post very little now (against my wishes - work Internet!), but I still care about you all, and my thoughts are with all who are struggling.

Edit -- o/

Not linked on the first post - but related and I've seen this tweeted out a few times today

http://www.biggerissues.co.uk/

\o

We miss you a lot. You are a brilliant person and hopefully one day you can return in an increased capacity.

But don't go getting fired to achieve this.

Hello, I'm Nick, and I'm vaguely man-shaped.

I don't tend to do much in the way of talking about stuff, but I entirely approve of the motivation behind this thread, and I can make someone out there go 'it's not just me' or similar, I'd like that.

I imagine most folks know that I officially separated from my wife three years ago (and four days, counting chums!). I don't tend to talk about it, partly because I'm not much of a sharer, and mainly because I don't think it's particularly fair to talk about someone who a number of you knew and counted as a friend without giving her the opportunity to provide input. So I'll keep this fairly abstract. We were together for fifteen years, which was basically the entirety of my adult life. We split up, mostly at my urging, because over that time we'd grown into very different people than we were, with different wants and needs. Which is pretty understandable, we were kids when we met. I strongly believe I made the right decision, still - but I do know that I was really not expecting how difficult it would be for me to transition out of the life of a long time married, very settled man with a nice house, garden, and pets.
Mainly, I walked out of there woefully underequipped to deal with loneliness. I think I always underestimated the importance of having someone there each and every day reminding you that you're their choice for a life partner. I never spent any time on my own as an adult, and I really think there was a whole load of emotional development that I missed out on in my early twenties that is so much harder to do now. It's tough to reinvent yourself completely in your mid-thirties, and to actually work out what it is you want out of life. It feels a bit like having spent 15 years in a cryo tube or something, and I do spend an amount of time going 'now what'.
It's been a difficult process for me, and I'm a long way short of having got through it. I've made some poor choices, and I've been a bad friend to people on a number of occasions, but I'm incredibly grateful to those who've been there as a friend for me, it's made an absolute world of difference. I found out last week that my ex is 9 months into a new relationship. I'm really very pleased about that, it certainly helps with chipping away at the guilt I carry around over how everything ended up - but at the same time it makes me hold up a mirror to some extent and realise that actually, she as a person was way better equipped to deal than I was, even though it was me that walked out.

I don't have depression. Just baggage, and a few issues trailing here and there. But that's nothing that isn't fixed with time, and the help of good friends.


Basically what I'm saying here is that everyone should go out and get drunk and ride a mechanical bull.

Thanks for this topic Myp, and thanks to everyone for sharing personal stuff. Here's mine.


Some of my postings over the past couple of years have referred to a problem with a relationship that I was struggling with and was causing me a lot of stress, grief, and possibly some form of depression. It was very hard for me to approach the couselling service at work that first time, and whilst I found the sessions helpful, after I had used up my allocation and declined private sessions I spent much of 2014 in an even worse state than before. At its most serious I had several panic attacks, but I would often come home in tears, or not sleep, and on one occassion even collapsed in tears in the office. Most of my time when I wasn't otherwise distracted involved obsessing over the situation. All of this climaxed in an extremely scary emotional breakdown on a moor causing me to abandon a solo hiking holiday, head home, and have an emergency telephone counselling session followed by another series of face-to-face ones. They ended in late December, and whilst the early months of this year were still quite shaky with a massive dip in May, they helped me get over the worst and since the summer I've been on the up and haven't had any relapses. I actually think I'm the happiest I've been for a long time.

During that second round of sessions, we finally worked through the underlying anxieties and issues surrounding the situation, especially my long-term denial and repression of my sexuality. I hadn't discussed that first time round. I'm now a lot more relaxed, happier, and open about being gay. I'm still the same person, but I'm no longer lying to myself or anyone else and feel all the better for it. I've also made major changes in my life, have met a whole new crowd, doing more things, and am also getting a lot more exercise (haven't quite got a sub-20 minute 5k, but getting close!). I've even gone on a few dates!

Looking back, perhaps I should have gone to the doctor or gone for more help during the dark days of 2013/14 but approaching the service at work was hard enough. I'm very grateful for the support I've received from close friends (including you guys) throughout all of this too. Finally, I certainly don't know why I put off accepting with who I am for the whole of my adult life because at times I feel like I've missed on a lot of things but then attitudes have changed a lot in the last decade and those younger than us don't have the same hang-ups.

Thanks Nick, I appreciate this is especially difficult if you're not used to sharing your personal stuff. Good on you, mate.

And no matter what bad decisions you've made or think you've made, you've always been brilliant to me to me especially considering the complete arse I made of myself at Trooper's wedding and I'm proud to know you. I consider you a very good friend.

Thanks for sharing this. I'm so glad you're more accepting of yourself and your sexuality, and that this has led to you being much happier. This is brilliant stuff and I'm so happy to hear it. You are an excellent person and I'm glad to know you.

Likewise, buddy.