ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Cavey wrote:
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Mr Kissyfur wrote:
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Oh, and while I'm posting, for as short a period of time as that may be - I'm personally pro-europe but in response to Mr Chris and why Europe is a good thing, I did like this
Blog postHa!
Actually, I'd recommend that entire blog to Cavey. I find myself in agreement with about 90% of the subject matter, if not to a similar extent with the some of the comment makers 'style'. However, one or two of the regular commentators I have actually thought are him.
No, not me mate. Beex is pretty much the only place I post, apart from geeky car/bike forums (and very rarely over at Stu C's blog).
I'll take a look later.
edit - are you that blog's author?
Blimey,
if so, nicely done.
God no. I only started reading it because of our mutual hatred of Richard Murphy though.
Ah right, sorry (in fact you actually say so in your OP... it's been a long night and I am firing on about 1 cylinder at the moment)
Agree with you. I think this counter-pragmatic meddling on the part of the EU is the type of thing that tends to get people's backs up, and with good reason; I wish they'd stick to their macroeconomic mandate and leave this to sovereign, elected governments.
I'm completely ambivalent towards the EU, neither a -sceptic or a -phile.
On the one hand, it seems obvious to me that the EU is fundamentally required, and UK's membership pretty much a given. We delude ourselves if we think that we don't have to be part of this economic bloc and pay our dues accordingly, both capital and political. But of course, that's not to say that we shouldn't fight vociferously and selfishly - just as per any other Member State (and especially as one of the few net contributors) - to minimise both, and shape what the EU is, and is to become. (Don't want to bring politics into it unduly, but it is empirically clear that Labour cannot be trusted to do this even remotely, and as for the Liberals, slavishly accepting whatever crap Brussels throws at us is their entire, self-stated modus operandi).
On the other hand, the Euro project is a ludicrous folly that even people like me said from the outset would be an entirely predictable, total disaster. Why can't we have freedom of movement/labour, a free market, some common social, environmental and employment laws but NOT the ridiculous Euro?
I used to think that the Euro's reason for existence was to provide a weak currency for German manufacturing exports, and still think that's a big part of it. As I say, long term stability of any currency union has been shown to be impossible by history time and again, without political union.
What we are seeing, though, is de facto political union through the back door, with the imposition of 'technocrat', effectively imposed governments on the increasing numbers of EU Euro States bankrupted by the Euro/inability to control interest rates and/or print money in extremis. In effect, normal democratic process, however inept and ineffective in many cases (e.g. Italy), is being bypassed by virtue of 'bailouts'.
There is a serious democratic deficit and, to people like me at least, all very worrying. I think Gordon Brown was the worst PM we've had for 100 years, but the one thing I'll bless his cotton socks for was his keeping the UK out of the Euro, even as Blair and many, many others in Labour were desperate to get us in there. Things have been bad for sure (but rapidly improving with 3% growth this year and UK economy back to 2008 size); can you imagine what things would've been like...
_________________
Beware of gavia articulata oculos...
Dr Lave wrote:
Of course, he's normally wrong but
interestingly wrong