Wimbledon on YouTube

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fce69AeqH_8

Do you need a TV license?

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

Wimbledon on Youtube you say?

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:54

I thought this was ging to be the film

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Grim... wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fce69AeqH_8

Do you need a TV license?

It doesn't appear to be related to the BBC so presumably not; it's coming from The All England Lawn Tennis Club themselves and presumably doesn't have the BBCs pundits and whatnot commentating. Maybe?

Malc · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 13:02

you need a licence to watch any live broadcast TV in the uk though (ITV, Sky, Dave etc) I imagine you would need one to watch that too.

As it is being "broadcast" on youtube. CCTV is exempt, as would any other "narrowcast".

Malc

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Malc wrote:

you need a licence to watch any live broadcast TV in the uk though (ITV, Sky, Dave etc) I imagine you would need one to watch that too.

As it is being "broadcast" on youtube. CCTV is exempt, as would any other "narrowcast".

Got a source for this?

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 13:58

Bamba wrote:

Malc wrote:

you need a licence to watch any live broadcast TV in the uk though (ITV, Sky, Dave etc) I imagine you would need one to watch that too.

As it is being "broadcast" on youtube. CCTV is exempt, as would any other "narrowcast".

Got a source for this?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/ ... NTCMP=SRCH

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Quote:

Also, just to be clear: "live" TV doesn't refer to a live episode – it refers to any programme that is shown online at the same time that it's broadcast on TV.

If this content is being filmed by the Lawn Tennis Club and shoved directly onto YouTube then it's never been broadcast on TV at all.

Malc · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 14:23

Bamba wrote:

Quote:

Also, just to be clear: "live" TV doesn't refer to a live episode – it refers to any programme that is shown online at the same time that it's broadcast on TV.

If this content is being filmed by the Lawn Tennis Club and shoved directly onto YouTube then it's never been broadcast on TV at all.

Quote:

• You have at least one device (whether it's a television, computer, tablet, set-top box, digital recorder or mobile phone) that you use to watch or record live TV as and when it is broadcast. This includes all the online channels – including 4.live and BBC Live. Not everything is available live on ITV Player, but if you watch something that is, then you'll still have to pay the full £145.50 colour TV licence. Also, just to be clear: "live" TV doesn't refer to a live episode – it refers to any programme that is shown online at the same time that it's broadcast on TV. One TV licence per household will cover you for streaming on your mobile phone, tablet or any other devices.

Malc

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22391

But Bamba is correct here I think, it's an interesting case. The content has never actually been sent out over the airwaves, it's effectively a webcam stream on youtube isn't it?

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 14:29

I read that too, but by that rationale if I live-stream the 3BQ then people would need a TV license to watch it

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 14:30

Grim... wrote:

I read that too, but by that rationale if I live-stream the 3BQ then people would need a TV license to watch it

Press RED for further camera options

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22391

I think the key word here is "broadcast" which in this case specifically means sent out over the TV assigned frequencies.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

If you live stream the 3BQ you're probably violating a number of decency laws.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22391

Grim... wrote:

I read that too, but by that rationale if I live-stream the 3BQ then people would need a TV license to watch it

I was going to suggest you do that, but then thought that everyone would be there anyway so no point.

<waves to Curio>

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Grim... wrote:

I read that too, but by that rationale if I live-stream the 3BQ then people would need a TV license to watch it

This is the sort of thing I was thinking of which led me to assume this can't be the case. Although I suppose it's equally likely that the current law makes that the case by accident because when it was drafted people didn't know to make exemptions for stuff that didn't really exist.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Trooper wrote:

Grim... wrote:

I read that too, but by that rationale if I live-stream the 3BQ then people would need a TV license to watch it

I was going to suggest you do that, but then thought that everyone would be there anyway so no point.

<waves to Curio>

I'd almost certainly tune in, but that's hardly a reason to go to the hassle of doing it.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Trooper wrote:

I think the key word here is "broadcast" which in this case specifically means sent out over the TV assigned frequencies.

Not according to the part malc highlighted which makes specific reference to online only TV channels.

Of course this is all assuming that the Guardian writer responsible for the piece has understood it properly and communicated it correctly...

Malc · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 14:38

Trooper wrote:

I think the key word here is "broadcast" which in this case specifically means sent out over the TV assigned frequencies.

I don't think it is, they refer to 2 online only channels. and specifically include them.

I am reasonably sure that "broadcast" means made available to anyone with the appropriate receiving equipment.

The exception is CCTV (or something with a limited number of viewing slots in an internet analogue)

Malc

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22391

Bamba wrote:

Trooper wrote:

I think the key word here is "broadcast" which in this case specifically means sent out over the TV assigned frequencies.

Not according to the part malc highlighted which makes specific reference to online only TV channels.

But that is referencing content that is on a digital channel, that is also being broadcast on the TV frequencies at the same time. If the content was only ever on the digital channel, you wouldn't need a licence.

Malc · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 15:36

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/resources/ ... ug2011.pdf

Quote:

Note that ‘television receiving equipment’ refers to any apparatus used
for receiving (by any means) any television programme service as defined in
the Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004.

Note also that “received” means receiving a TV programme as it is being broadcast
on TV. It does not include receiving programmes by means of a DVD or the on-demand
elements of services such as i-Player.

You'd beed to look at Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004. to see what that entails...

Malc

Malc · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 15:38

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/692/part/3/made

Quote:

Meaning of “television receiver”9.—(1) In Part 4 of the Act (licensing of TV reception), “television receiver” means any apparatus installed or used for the purpose of receiving (whether by means of wireless telegraphy or otherwise) any television programme service, whether or not it is installed or used for any other purpose.
(2) In this regulation, any reference to receiving a television programme service includes a reference to receiving by any means any programme included in that service, where that programme is received at the same time (or virtually the same time) as it is received by members of the public by virtue of its being broadcast or distributed as part of that service.

Malc

Malc · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 15:47

I would say that includes online TV that hasn't been broadcast through the airwaves.

Malc

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

So, to sum up, we've no idea then?

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22391

I guess it all comes down to the definition "television programme service", which I can't find anywhere. It says the definition is the same as in the Act, but I can't see it in the Act. :shrug:

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

Malc wrote:

I would say that includes online TV that hasn't been broadcast through the airwaves.

Malc

You'd be wrong. Your first quote says 'as it's being broadcast on TV'.

TheVision · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 19:30

Wimbledon will be over by the time this is sorted.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

"Note also that “received” means receiving a TV programme as it is being broadcast
on TV. It does not include receiving programmes by means of a DVD or the on-demand
elements of services such as i-Player."

Yeah, that's pretty clear. Not really sure why people are confused.

If your'e watching something on the internet at the same time as it's being broadcast on TV then you need a licence for it (e.g. "watch live" on iplayer would need a licence)

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22391

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

"Note also that “received” means receiving a TV programme as it is being broadcast
on TV. It does not include receiving programmes by means of a DVD or the on-demand
elements of services such as i-Player."

Yeah, that's pretty clear. Not really sure why people are confused.

If your'e watching something on the internet at the same time as it's being broadcast on TV then you need a licence for it (e.g. "watch live" on iplayer would need a licence)

That isn't the question though, the feed we are talking about isn't being broadcast on tv, it's being shown on YouTube and only youtube. Does that class as being broadcast? I don't think it does.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Trooper wrote:

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

"Note also that “received” means receiving a TV programme as it is being broadcast
on TV. It does not include receiving programmes by means of a DVD or the on-demand
elements of services such as i-Player."

Yeah, that's pretty clear. Not really sure why people are confused.

If your'e watching something on the internet at the same time as it's being broadcast on TV then you need a licence for it (e.g. "watch live" on iplayer would need a licence)

That isn't the question though, the feed we are talking about isn't being broadcast on tv, it's being shown on YouTube and only youtube. Does that class as being broadcast? I don't think it does.

The answer's there in black and white, dude.

Is it being broadcast on TV at the same time as it's broadcast on Youtube?Y/N

N, not an issue
Y, get a TV licence.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22391

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

Trooper wrote:

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

"Note also that “received” means receiving a TV programme as it is being broadcast
on TV. It does not include receiving programmes by means of a DVD or the on-demand
elements of services such as i-Player."

Yeah, that's pretty clear. Not really sure why people are confused.

If your'e watching something on the internet at the same time as it's being broadcast on TV then you need a licence for it (e.g. "watch live" on iplayer would need a licence)

That isn't the question though, the feed we are talking about isn't being broadcast on tv, it's being shown on YouTube and only youtube. Does that class as being broadcast? I don't think it does.

The answer's there in black and white, dude.

Is it being broadcast on TV at the same time as it's broadcast on Youtube?Y/N

N, not an issue
Y, get a TV licence.

That's what I think too, which I've already mentioned

Talk to malc and bamba, who disagree

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

LOOK, I TOLD YOU IT'S FINE.

Oh, you agree. Sorry. Reflex action.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Jun 28, 2013 20:11

Trooper wrote:

That isn't the question though, the feed we are talking about isn't being broadcast on tv, it's being shown on YouTube and only youtube. Does that class as being broadcast? I don't think it does.

Except when it is being broadcast on TV. The BBC uses the Wimbledon feed when it's showing live stuff. It's not like there's a set of BBC cameras next to all the Wimbledon cameras.

itsallwater · **Posted:** Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:30

The guy on bbc news said everything live needs a license. Anything recorded doesn't. If its a national sporting event I'd be doubly sure you'd need a license.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16636

So what if someone films a five a side football match and broadcasts it using the Google live streaming thing?

Anyway, pay your TV license, the BBC is a good thing.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22391

itsallwater wrote:

The guy on bbc news said everything live needs a license. Anything recorded doesn't. If its a national sporting event I'd be doubly sure you'd need a license.

That can't be true, otherwise I need a licence to watch davpaz wanking furiously via my hidden webcam.

MaliA · **Posted:** Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:15

the iPlayer says "Don't forget, to watch TV online as it's being broadcast, you still need to be covered by a TV Licence.

Find out more at the TV Licensing web site"

Grim... · **Posted:** Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:13

markg wrote:

Anyway, pay your TV license, the BBC is a good thing.

I do, obviously, but we don't have one in the office.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38653

Trooper wrote:

itsallwater wrote:

The guy on bbc news said everything live needs a license. Anything recorded doesn't. If its a national sporting event I'd be doubly sure you'd need a license.

That can't be true, otherwise I need a licence to watch davpaz wanking furiously via my hidden webcam.

'hidden? Yeah, right.

throughsilver · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6197

Trooper wrote:

itsallwater wrote:

The guy on bbc news said everything live needs a license. Anything recorded doesn't. If its a national sporting event I'd be doubly sure you'd need a license.

That can't be true, otherwise I need a licence to watch davpaz wanking furiously via my hidden webcam.

Why are you furious when you watch DavPaz wank?

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