Be Excellent To Each Other

And, you know, party on. Dude.

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 14:06 
User avatar
Skillmeister

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27023
Location: Felelagedge Wedgebarge, The River Tib
Rabblerabblerabble t'Innerneh's up in arms about this etc.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill ... he-shamer/

Quote:
Over the weekend, a female “developer evangelist,” Adria Richards, overheard two male developers making what she thought were sexist jokes during a tech conference. Uncomfortable with confronting them in person, she instead tweeted a photo of the two to shame them publicly, writing that “jokes about forking repo’s in a sexual way and big ‘dongles’” are “not cool.” One of the dongle-joking dudes was wearing a visible nametag in the photo. Richards’s tweet was immediately spotted by an organizer for the tech conference who pulled the two men aside to confront them about the comments. According to a post on the conference’s website, the men agreed the comments were in poor taste and apologized.

That could have been the end of the story but instead, like a sexist snowball rolling down a hyper-sensitive mountain, the situation has escalated considerably. Richards wrote a blog post about the encounter, in which it’s not entirely clear that the comments were sexist (in my reading). Meanwhile, one of the male developers revealed that he had been let go from his job as a result of the public shaming, and said while he had been making a joke about the male anatomy by referring to “big dongles” (a piece of tech hardware), “forking” is a term he and his colleague used to denote “the highest form of flattery.”

Arguments about the incident moved to blogs, the message forum Hacker News, Twitter, and Facebook, as well as the social media pages of the male developers’ employer, a gaming company called PlayHaven, and Richards’s employer, an email delivery company called SendGrid. Many people were incensed that Richards would shame the men via social media rather than talking to them in person, and labeled her as oversensitive in reacting to their comments.

Others saw the incident as another example of the hostile environment for women in technology. After news that the PlayHaven employee had lost his job over the “dongle and forking” jokes, social media users lashed out at Richards, harassing her and sending her threats. On Wednesday evening, they also went after her employer, subjecting the SendGrid site and servers to a distributed denial of service attack. The DDoS attack had the company up through the night trying to restore service for its customers. On Thursday morning, it announced it was resolving the issue in another way: it posted to Twitter, Facebook and the company blog that it was terminating Adria Richards.

Over a thousand people had “liked” the firing within hours. Others were aghast that the company would “cave” to pressure from anonymous attackers. Meanwhile, PlayHaven’s CEO also published a post confirming that it had terminated an employee because of the comments made at the conference, but that it wasn’t the employee, Alex Reid, whose name tag was visible in the photo Richards took.

“PlayHaven had an employee who was identified as making inappropriate comments at PyCon, and as a company that is dedicated to gender equality and values honorable behavior, we conducted a thorough investigation,” wrote PlayHaven CEO Andy Yang. “The result of this investigation led to the unfortunate outcome of having to let this employee go.”


One tweet. Thousands of comments. Four days later, two people have been fired. Welcome to the digital age.


Sounds shit from both directions, to be honest. The Beeb have now reported on it, too.

Also, going by the first comment on that article, it seems Ms Richards has priors in behaving this way, not that it absolves any of the dregs of humanity that announced she "deserves to be raped", mind.

_________________
Washing Machine: Fine. Kettle: Needs De-scaling. Shower: Brand new. Boiler: Fine.
Archimedes Hotdog Rhubarb Niner Zero Niner.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 14:32 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14375
Location: Shropshire, UK
Quote:
writing that “jokes about forking repo’s in a sexual way and big ‘dongles’” are “not cool.”

But... but... they are?

Does Adria Richards crusade against almost every adult-oriented comedy show in history? At this point, innuendo is as much a part of our culture as Van Gogh.

//edit: Also, totally thought this thread was going to be about Ariana Richards, of Tremors and Jurassic Park fame.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 14:34 

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 5318
Can't decide whether she's more coward or idiot.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 14:56 
User avatar
Paws for thought

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17161
Location: Just Outside That London, England, Europe
Daft person overreacts to private joke.
World ends.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 15:07 
SupaMod
User avatar
"Praisebot"

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17094
Location: Parts unknown
I can't really comprehend what I've just read. So, someone possibly heard a bit of innuendo and then everyone got fired? Wow... Just, Wow...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 15:48 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14375
Location: Shropshire, UK
Seems relevant (click for bigger)

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 15:54 
User avatar
Ticket to Ride World Champion

Joined: 18th Apr, 2008
Posts: 11898
She also said this:
Image


And I am unsure where i stand on it - other than her being wrong, of course, but there is a point in there somewhere.

_________________
No, it was a giant robot castle!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 15:56 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38664
Why can't black people have power? She should have more ambition.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 16:00 
User avatar
Chinny chin chin

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 15695
GovernmentYard wrote:
Can't decide whether she's more coward or idiot.


I'd say genius. She's a gob on a stick who just got her name a whole lot better known.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 16:17 

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 5318
Bobbyaro wrote:
She also said this:
Image


And I am unsure where i stand on it - other than her being wrong, of course, but there is a point in there somewhere.


To that I say fine, racism might not be the appropriate term but when anyone of a given race get abused by someone of a different race, in the basis if their race, it's still wrong and we need a name for it.

Who better than the enthusiastic students of equality, so active in comment threads, to coin one?

It seems that it's not hard to find people on the internet who are learned in the realm of race and gender politics and who come from an oppressed minority of whatever type, but rather than trying to make the issue more easy to talk about and extending the vocabulary, so that people can communicate and understand better, they use their ability to be technically correct and on-point to increase their own power by correcting people and invoking the hideously patronising likes of "part of male privilege is not being able to see that it exists". All this seems to do is frustrate and annoy people who have entered the discussion with goodwill and made the hideous mistake of not having an appropriate degree, nor a full vocabulary of the correct academic terms (however well everyone might understand the point they ham-fistedly made).

Richards might be able to intellectualise her behaviour but there's no humanity to it. Talk to these guys after the show, with a friend there if necessary, and see how they feel about how you feel. If people really are unwittingly participating in an oppressive hegemony by saying something, patronising them on a forum or smiling a them while you bring their lives down around them isn't going to help.

This might be the biggest nut of them all, but a proportionately larger sledgehammer is still a bad solution.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 16:27 

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 5318
Looking at that tweet again she makes the same mistake she's correcting - namely using the word power to mean only one kind, that of the oppressor. In a prison, for example, the inmates can do quite a lot to affect how the screws' day goes. That's a power. Different sort, weaker in the most literal terms, but to abuse it is still wrong. A manager can be oppressed by staff, a support worker can be oppressed by people living in their project, it's what an individual or group is doing that they ought not do that matters.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 16:36 
User avatar
Level 6 Laser Lotus

Joined: 26th Aug, 2010
Posts: 2069
Bobbyaro wrote:
She also said this:
Image


And I am unsure where i stand on it - other than her being wrong, of course, but there is a point in there somewhere.


Quote:
Definition of racism
noun
[mass noun]
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races:
theories of racism
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior:


So why is it not possible for a Chinese person to be racist against a Black person? or a Black person against a White person? The direction that the antagonism is directed is irrelevant, all that matters is if the antagonism is due to racial superiority, and racial superiority is entirely in the mind of the bigot.

She also posted this to her twitter feed previously -

Quote:
@skwashd you should put something in your pants next time...like a bunch of socks inside one...large...sock. TSA agent faint


Which is probably worse humour that the guys comments in the conference, yes they were 'on the clock' and representing their companies but it was a conversation that she wasn't involved in and overheared, and she seems to have put her own sexual context into at lease some of the comments. The main problem I have is the way she went about dealing with the problem, tweeting it straight to 9000 followers without even giving the guys a chance to stop or explain themselves is massively wrong imo

The post from the guy who made the jokes was very well done imo-

Quote:
Hi, I'm the guy who made a comment about big dongles. First of all I'd like to say I'm sorry. I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position. However, there is another side to this story. While I did make a big dongle joke about a fictional piece hardware that identified as male, no sexual jokes were made about forking. My friends and I had decided forking someone's repo is a new form of flattery (the highest form being implementation) and we were excited about one of the presenters projects; a friend said "I would fork that guys repo" The sexual context was applied by Adria, and not us.
My second comment is this, Adria has an audience and is a successful person of the media. Just check out her web page linked in her twitter account, her hard work and social activism speaks for itself. With that great power and reach comes responsibility. As a result of the picture she took I was let go from my job today. Which sucks because I have 3 kids and I really liked that job.
She gave me no warning, she smiled while she snapped the pic and sealed my fate. Let this serve as a message to everyone, our actions and words, big or small, can have a serious impact.
I will be at pycon 2014, I will joke and socialize with everyone but I will also be mindful of my audience, accidental or otherwise.
Again, I apologize.

_________________
Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 17:03 
User avatar

Joined: 12th Apr, 2008
Posts: 17970
Location: Oxfordshire
Avenue Q wrote:
Everyone's a little bit racist, sometimes.
Doesn't mean we go around committing hate crimes.


Feels apt.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:50 

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 5318
PATRIARCHY APOLOGIST SCUM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 15:10 
Excellent Member

Joined: 23rd Mar, 2013
Posts: 2
This situation has sadden us around here on several levels.

(1) If Richards thought forking a repo has sexual connotations, she did not belong in that conference. This is tech humor. She should have learned this back in school.

(2) Dongle and its maleness is a reference to sex, yes. And so is the male part of the electrical cord that plugs into an outlet. Many languages go as far as assigning gender to inanimate objects.

(3) Such demo of hypersensitivity does everyone a disservice. I worked a number of years in the tech industry before changing career to structural engineering. Both careers are straight male oriented. Quite homophobic actually. What Richards did will make employers think twice before hiring a non-straight male. Why? Because in either career people joke around a lot. And most jokes are sexual in nature. They're funny! In other words, she just made the tech industry this much more sexist and homophobic.

(4) As it unfolded, no one won in this. And it all started with a hypersensitive woman who see herself as joan of arc and a very politically correct system.

I honestly hope she learns from this experience and stop playing with people's lives especially a father of 3.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 15:13 
Awesome
User avatar
Yes

Joined: 6th Apr, 2008
Posts: 12337
Hello goodintentions.

_________________
Always proof read carefully in case you any words out


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 19:29 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27354
Location: Kidbrooke
Hello!

Did you do the paving for the road to my house?

_________________
We are young despite the years
We are concern
We are hope, despite the times


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 23:01 
Awesome
User avatar
Yes

Joined: 6th Apr, 2008
Posts: 12337
Curiosity wrote:
Hello!

Did you do the paving for the road to my house?

Is that the same road Chris Rea lives on?

_________________
Always proof read carefully in case you any words out


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 23:30 
User avatar
Chinny chin chin

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 15695
Image
"Snakes with tits"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:47 

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 5318
Gah!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:48 
Excellent Member

Joined: 23rd Mar, 2013
Posts: 2
Curiosity wrote:
Hello!

Did you do the paving for the road to my house?

You live in hell?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:51 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27354
Location: Kidbrooke
goodintentions wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Hello!

Did you do the paving for the road to my house?

You live in hell?


Fraid so.

:'(

_________________
We are young despite the years
We are concern
We are hope, despite the times


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:55 
Excellent Member

Joined: 5th Dec, 2010
Posts: 3353
It was a joke that was none of her business, it’s a shame that anybody was fired, but maybe the PC brigade have been shown that there can be consequences to them kicking their crap off on the internet.

To fire her over a DOS attack (but dress it up as somthing else) sends a bad message out as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:40 

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 5318
"Why are we getting Ddosed?"

"Our developer evangelist had some people kicked out of a conference because she misunderstood them and then one got sacked so now the Internet hates her"

"Our WHAT?"

"Our developer evangelist"

"Again, what?"

"She sort of builds bridges between departments and facilitates communication best practice to actualise new internal synergies going forward"

"Could we just email what the best practice is to different departments, tell them to use it, sack her and get the Ddos stopped whilst saving money and regaining a little of our dignity?"

"Well, I suppose...."

"Good. Do that. See you after lunch. Bye!"

Developer evangelist my arsehole.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:55 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14375
Location: Shropshire, UK
GovernmentYard wrote:
Developer evangelist my arsehole.

Probably does a better job ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 13:33 
User avatar
INFINITE POWAH

Joined: 1st Apr, 2008
Posts: 30498
A tediously predicatable (if slightly overdue) Guardian article.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ace-sexism

Completely agree with the unacceptability of the vile threats, of course, as would 99.9% of the world, but the "support the woman, right or wrong, all men are making cock jokes around women and raping them" approach is a bit irritating. It's not a case of her getting threats for "[bravely] speaking out", it's her getting threats (still unacceptable, of course), for doing something apparently malicious which cost a guy his job. A guy doing something like this would have had a similar internet response, I suspect. No-one here, except perhaps the dongle jokers, has behaved with any decency. To suggest, as the author does here, that her employer shoudn't have fired her because the internet was horrible to her is ridiculous. That doesn't cancel out her having done something shitty.

Although I'm falling into the author's trap there, because apparently saying all that makes me as bad as a rapist.

_________________
http://www.thehomeofawesome.com/
Eagles soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 15:56 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27354
Location: Kidbrooke
I gave Chinny's comment a recommend.

_________________
We are young despite the years
We are concern
We are hope, despite the times


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 16:11 
User avatar
Chinny chin chin

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 15695
Curiosity wrote:
I gave Chinny's comment a recommend.


Crikey, so did 87 others!

[orders up 1000 "Chinny Reckon" T Shirts to sell]

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 20:10 

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 5318
I wonder if anyone can be bothered to check out whether this lady was making knob jokes a couple of weeks prior on twitter, as someone in the comments suggests.

More importantly fuck you all for causing me to get sucked into reading Guardian comments.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 20:25 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 14375
Location: Shropshire, UK
GovernmentYard wrote:
I wonder if anyone can be bothered to check out whether this lady was making knob jokes a couple of weeks prior on twitter, as someone in the comments suggests.

More importantly fuck you all for causing me to get sucked into reading Guardian comments.

Dunno about knob jokes, but she tweeted this picture of her and a group of people playing Cards Against Humanity.

Which surely is more offensive and sexist than the jokes about dongles and forking repos.

//edit: Or there's this:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 22:30 
User avatar
Paws for thought

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17161
Location: Just Outside That London, England, Europe
GazChap wrote:

Is that Andy Bear with his back to the camera?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 22:40 
User avatar
Bad Girl

Joined: 20th Apr, 2008
Posts: 14417
There's a procedure for airing your dirty laundry and its called the "grievance procedure" not "publicly let your bosses customers know about your petty squabbles on social media procedure."

I hope she got the boot for damaging the companies reputation.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Adria Richards thing
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 23:28 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27354
Location: Kidbrooke
Mr Dave wrote:
GazChap wrote:

Is that Andy Bear with his back to the camera?


Woah!

_________________
We are young despite the years
We are concern
We are hope, despite the times


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kern and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search within this thread:
You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC. RIP, Dimmers.

Powered by a very Grim... version of phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.