Be Excellent To Each Other

I watched the one-off special when it was on, and thought it was ok, but nothing special. I was also a little bit uncomfortable with Gervais' portrayal of what he would call a "mong". It's all well and good him defending it and saying that Derek doesn't have a disability, and that the people who think he is taking the piss are the ones with the problem. I could see his point, if his portrayal was a bit less obviously designed to provoke a reaction, but either he is disingenuous in his ideal behind it, or is not a good enough actor to do the part justice and put over what he is trying to say. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say it is the latter.

I was stuck for something to watch last night, so thought I would give the series a go. Watched all four, one after the other in the end! Sure Gervais is a pretty bad actor, but most others in it are really good ("Hannah" in particular) Karl is hilarious, but then he isn't really acting, he is just himself in a wig. Sure, the moralistic nature is overblown and cynical. Sure, it's pretty one dimensional and obvious. But after all that, it still made me think, entertained me and kept me wanting more.

Two thumbs up. Give it a go, even if you don't like Gervais.

I saw the pilot and thought it was ok but I follow Gervais on Twitter and his constant banging on about it being "emotional" or "special" has done my head in and it's going to take me a while to get over that.

Hypothesis: Nothing with Ricky Gervais in is funny.

Data: This is not funny.

HYPOTHESIS HAS YET TO HAVE BEEN DISPROVED. With enough experimental evidence that fails to disprove I think this will soon become a well accepted Scientific Theory.

My feelings on Gervais.

His XFM show with Merchant was great, really really funny, but that was mainly due to Karl.
The Office was ok, but nothing amazing.
Extras was a bit crap.
Life's Too Short was rubbish.
His stand-up is pretty awful.
Derek, pretty good, certainly the best thing he has done in years.

I like The Office, podcasts (basically XFM) and Idiot Abroad which was an inspired show, particularly early on.

As for Derek, I didn't see any of it until last week where I caught ten minutes, which began with Pilkington getting pelted with seaweed (I laughed like a drain) and then the tipp-exing of swear words onto crabs (laughed like a choir of drains, forever).

I might watch it again.

I really like Derek. I think its heart is in the right place and it's genuinely funny.

If it was 1974 Gervais would be blacking up and making honky jokes to "explore" race relations.

I suspect in 30 years time Derek will indeed look as insulting and horrible as Love Thy Neighbour does now.

Sorry but it's horrid. How long before idiots are dressing up like the character and going to parties as a laugh like happened with David Brent?

What absolute fucking bollocks.

You may disagree but I've spoken to a number of people, especially on Twitter, who hold the same view. My entire experience of watching it made me feel exactly the kind of unclean that I felt when I forced myself to sit through an episode of Love Thy Neighbour on Youtube.

Gervais aside, it might be well acted and well written but I have a major problem with it and what it was born out of. Always thought his comedy was cruel and he's very capable of making me uncomfortable in a bad way, but this time he's gone over the edge.

BTW I only learnt recently that the disabled lady who gets left in a stairwell in The Office was in Eldorado when she was a kid.

Gervais gives the impression that he's pulling a joke on the whole world and no-one else is clever enough to understand.

"Ha ha, losers. Keep laughing. The jokes on you though, I'm so clever!"

To be honest I think you and "a number of people, especially on Twitter" have missed the point by such a massive margin that there's no coming back. But I guess I'm the sort of cunt who probably likes "Love Thy Neighbour" too so I should just shut the fuck up

If you were the sort of person that liked Love Thy Neighbour back when it was on, that's exactly how you would have defended it (well - probably without mentioning Twitter ).

I agree with Chinny and DP on this one - it's a horrible show.

Also, no-one is calling anyone a cunt. Let's be cool, people.

Oh fuck off.

Love Thy Neighbours biggest crime is that it actually isn't funny. You expect the racism (which is horrid and flies both ways), but it is totally laugh free. It was astoundingly popular though and I don't think for one second it was watched by large number of racists getting off on it. However it did have an impact. People say that the language used was imitated in the playground and workplace and I have a real fear of people also imitating Derek for laughs.

I just didn't get Derek. Sat there, watched it, and I didn't like it. Perhaps Gervais isn't go for the cheap laugh. Perhaps I would react differently if he hadn't put himself in the title role. Who knows? But I can only report how I felt. And keep in mind I've watched some right old shit.

It's not Come Back Mrs Noah unfunny, but perhaps as Davpaz says, it's trying to be too clever.

I saw the pilot, and thought whilst it was amusing in parts, it did feel mean spirited to me.

That was kinda what I was trying to say at the start (not the "oh fuck off" ) I think the intentions behind it are good, but the execution is uncomfortable. I'm not sure if that is because Gervais is such a bad actor, or if that was the intention.

If you watch the whole series, it really is quite heartwarming and moralistic. I don't think you could ever say the same about Love Thy Neighbour.

I quite enjoyed An Idiot Abroad even though it was as scripted as a Top Gear episode.

I haven't seen Derek much because, well, Ricky Gervais.

Indeed. Although in a clumsy kind of way it does manage to show that being a racist arsehole doesn't get you anywhere (which is always the writers justification for the show).

The Gervais podcasts are OK, until the point where he becomes cruel and nasty and starts laughing at himself. It's like he needs someone to say in his headphones "no further".

I'd like to say, I haven't seen this.

It has stuff in common with his other work but is lower key in some ways. I saw the pilot and don't really want to see any more.

You might say "watch some more", but the entire thing has been commissioned off the back of that pilot so I've had the same opportunity as the commissioning editor at C4 to evaluate it.

I just don't understand whe you are getting the comparison from, beyond them being two programmes you didn't happen to like. Derek is far less offensive and sterotyped it its portrayal of disability than shite like The Big Bang Theory or Rain Man, neither of which I hear being frequently compared to some 1970s racist dogshit like Love Thy Neighbour. But, Ricky Gervais.

Who is disabled in BBT? The only one I can think of is the selective mute.

I dunno I thought Sheldon was meant to be a stereotypical portrayal of someone with Asperger's Syndrome, most of the "comedy" seems to come from his complete lack of self-awareness and inability to judge social situations as well as his strict attachment to certain routines.

The problem with Gervais' characters (including Ricky Gervais himself) is that there are a significant number of fans who don't buy into the ironic nature of some of the things that they say/do. We also have to take his word that it is ironic, and not intentionally playing to that audience. We'll never be able to prove that.

Al Murray came across the same thing with the pub landlord until one day he realised that he was, in effect, playing to an Arena full of BNP members who were hanging on the every word of his character, stopped doing it for a while and readdressed the nature of the show.

If you don't believe the view that there are indeed a number of Gervais fans who aren't looking through the veneer of irony, look up the Richard Herring/Gervais 'Mong-Gate' spat on Twitter which I think was last year.

Ah, right.

I like to think he misjudges the social situations on purpose as he is hyper intelligent and does things like that to irritate for a greater purpose never spoken of, or he's an arsehole and does it for malicious glee. He takes comfort in the routines because of his upbringing (texas, heavy handed parenting, bullied).

But, I can see how you might think "he's mentally disbaled" might work, too.

EDIT: Although I have recalled (from, I think, the 'Nerdist' podcast) the creators saying he wasn't anything. or something close to that.

Perhaps if he hadn't played the lead character? Because what Gervais brings to it is a total removal of any sensitivity in the writing and instead stamps all over it in size 10 boots with "playground depiction of the mentally ill". Perhaps if put in the hands of a proper actor it might work better for me. But as it is, it's a Gervais vehicle.



Gervais has been very careful not to say that Derek is autistic or mentally ill in any way. Because if he did there would be uproar about the portrayal. Instead it's worse because it's implied without ever being made explicit. I don't think I was left in any doubt from the portrayal I saw.

And perhaps its just me but I can't look at the picture above without thinking of that famous picture of Joey Deacon. Intentional? Dunno, perhaps its just me.

Right, so you think that some people are watching Derek and thinking what, exactly?

It's not like it's the true meaning of the show is hidden away behind a layer of irony.

So it would be ok if it was someone else but because it's Ricky Gervais then it is cruel and is just the same as Love Thy Neighbour. Yeah.

Retardz are funny LOLZ

I think by playing the character himself he makes it far worse, yes. I don't think he has the ability and as I say he has so much baggage associated with him. He's also not a man who can blend into character in the same way someone like Ronnie Barker could.

Do you know what, they occasionally undeniably are. Anyone with any experience of being a carer will tell you that. But that's not even what 99% of the show is about.

I have only seen it for a minute or two, during which time Karl Pilkigton was stealing things to sell on at a car boot sale, and it was hilarious.

I can see why the portrayal might be initially seen as offensive, but from what I've read the show makes it pretty clear that Derek is the good guy. The only issue is, as APOD said, with people who will just laugh at the person who looks and acts a little different. Much as 'Joey' became an insult in the playground, so could 'Derek'.

That, of course, doesn't mean it is in poor taste.

I can see how it would grate if you just hate Ricky Gervais anyway, especially all the gurning and stuff. But I just find his portrayal to be sympathetic rather than in any way cruel. Also recognisable in an number of ways from people with severe learning disabilities who I know now or have met over the years.


And I'm sorry to Grim... for telling him to fuck off earlier.

Do you know, I didn't even notice.

I assumed it was aimed at me.

I cried.

Yeah, it's absolutely impossible to legislate for the depths to which kids will sometimes sink to get a laugh or try to insult someone.

"I know that guy!"

Since Blackwood is a Tesco Value Eddie Murphy, has he been tested for presence of horse meat?

Or ham? [boom tish]

I've always been so confused by Al Murray. He seems to play the BNP football hooligan sort very well, so much so that I thought he was. Originally I thought it was a joke, then I realised it's not. Now you're telling me it is? Too much to handle.

Putting aside the problem of Gervais playing the part and over-egging it, the real depth of it as a show is all to do with the residents still being real people, and not just old. I think it is very sympathetic in its portrayal of old peoples homes, my late mum was a carer in a home for many years, so I guess I might have bit more of a connection to a show about it. I'm not sure if I like it because of Gervais, or despite him

I spent a fortnight or so working in a retirement home with an occupational therapist. It was an awful place.

I never used to enjoy visiting as a kid, that's for sure, but they did have an awesome conker tree in the garden, so it was a necessary evil.
I did get to the meet the Barron Knights on many an occasion though as are local and used to pop in to entertain the residents, you can imagine my excitement.

The reason I would put Derek in the "definitely not ironic and basically offensive" category is because it was written by Gervais and Gervais has had quite a thing of making definitely non-ironic "mong" jokes over the last couple of years - it's something he's latched onto and spent ages banging on about on Twitter, and then furiously defending himself from the PC nazis who didn't get the joke.

He's basically a c*nt, and him creating something genuniely warm towards its subject when he has spent ages making jokes about those with learning difficulties is impossible to imagine. Occam's razor and all that.

About 8 years ago he was on a kids christmas show (I think it was actually broadcast on christmas day). Also on there was a dwarf. Gervais was basically insulting this guy throughout the whole show, until he could take it no more, The camera was on one of the other presenters, but in the background, you could see the dwarf about to try and lamp Ricky.

I remember thinking he was really spiteful.

Malc

Sure the dwarf wasn't Warwick Davis?

I didn't like Derek when I saw bits of the first series, partly because I didn't find it funny but also because of Gervais's constant gurning (see also: Christopher Ecclestone in Doctor Who).

I actually quite liked Extras, mostly for some of the 'star' guest performances (I think my favourite was probably Kate Winslet advising on phone sex).

If Derek had a jaunty end theme tune I'd probably forgive it.

No, it wsan't someone I recognised and it was before that series was aired, I would say it was about the first season of Extras.

Malc