Be Excellent To Each Other

That was in response to trooper by the way and his justification of him being innocent as his desire to see squirt lynched.

Trooper never got THAT far ahead of Squirt really, obviously the momentum was all going against Trooper until I tried to give it a shove another way but if the gap had been substantial then people wouldn't have considered switching because it would have seemed pointless to them. I'm not sure he was ever more than 3 votes ahead, and that was with a load of votes still uncast.

I'm not saying he was ever a couple of votes away from a lynch, but in day one being one even just a few votes with no alternative isn't a good situation. Again, I'm not sayin he was for the chop but for him to say he covered himself in glory(hyperbole and paraphrasing but you get my drift) for voting for squirt is a bit of a stretch.

The reason I'm sticking with troops is that he seemed more suspect than squirt. Yes I know squirt was a bad guy, but that really was just a lucky guess, troops could well be the don and just sacrificed one of his goons so it looks like he's one of the town.

What, day 1? He'd have to be a blithering mental.

If he has 3 goons it could be a worthy tactic to gain our trust, then to pose as the policeman then to out all the townies.

Keep digging...

Fine. Lynch a townie. Sucks to be me.

Everything you've said so far has been totally bananas, nick

Just lynch trooper already.!

What if the person voting for someone on that list is also on that list? I'm about to give you a problem now!

Here's my theory. It involves if not a big leap of imagination then at least a small hop, but I reckon Grim... is also Mafia. I don't think his choice of Squirt as the first vote of the game was a "random" name that he used to test the vote counter, I think it would have appealed to his sense of humour to use one of his team mate's names knowing that nobody would really pay it any credence; he hastily withdrew it once Zaphod and Trooper joined him and a bit of momentum started up, and it would probably have just passed off unnoticed as he'd hoped as the stupid "Trooper's talking and thinking, that's SUSPICIOUS!" bandwagon gathered pace, except for the fact that I fingered Squirt for entirely unrelated reasons and that has now drawn a spotlight in that direction. As Trooper started to move closer to the gallows, Grim... blustered on about a no-lynch, which ok, it's a consistent position for him in scum games apparently; however despite all his bluster he voted for Trooper way back on page 2, so early that a no-lynch would still have been a viable thing to push for, and never changed from that vote despite constantly making a case that we shouldn't be lynching at all. My conclusion is that the "no lynch" stuff was all just a smokescreen he was trying to throw up to distract discussion from alternatives to Trooper, who he clearly pegged as a threat, and specifically his team mate Squirt, trusting that if he could get people talking about that rather than alternative lynches then it would get so late in the day we'd end up going "sod it, have to lynch someone and Trooper's the only option".

Just a theory, discuss. It's by no means a certainty, obviously, but I think it all hangs together.

I actually almost added at the foot of my last post that I'd be willing to lynch Nik based on the fact that he's talking like an absolute belm of the highest order. I don't suspect him of being nefarious in any way, but I've always believed that a townie moron is as valuable dead as a bad guy for their capacity to fuck the discussion up Fortunately, I believe I've just given you a better candidate.

More or less exactly what I said. Grim...'s behaviour on day 1 was too suspicious to be ignored IMO.

Last post was for Zaphod, BTW.

Christ, I must be hallucinating avatars or something - sorry Alberto, I thought that post was Zaphod for some reason.

Just before anyone says "why haven't you voted for him then?", [vote:Grim...], although I'd rather we have the discussion before we start the momentum going TOO fast.

You're voting for trooper wrong.

This is starting to smack of deliberately wanting to get lynched...

Lynch me if you want, it's a waste however, as I''m just a vanilla townie.

Nobody's even voted for you yet!

I was the quietest. But as I posted in b&b I was on a client site all day.

I would have voted, as I am not normally one to miss a rush

Tally ho! Alberto makes some excellent psychological reasoning. FoS at Grim...

Sucks to be me, too.

It is a good theory, but for me it falls down on the first vote for squirt. I just don't believe the mafia would do that, it is unnecessarily putting a mafia at risk. The first day is always about a random bandwagon, putting someones name up so early is inviting trouble.

Alberto's big post is rather based on what he remembers the first day to be, rather than actual facts.
I had a perfectly good reason to vote for Squirt, and a better one to unvote him. I also had a good reason to vote for Trooper - because it was funny, dammit. At no point did I pretend it was about anything else - and I certainly didn't mention anything about "suspicions".

FOS: Craster
[vote:trooper]
They're trying far too hard with this "Mafia wouldn't vote one of their own on the first day" stuff, when of course they would.

Squirt was 7-5 ahead with an hour to go, without any pressure it was looking like a certain timeout. I had three choices at that point.

1) Wait it out, have a likely no lynch, squirt lives.
2) Withdraw my vote, make it 99.9% certain of a no lynch, squirt lives.
3) Push hard for a squirt vote, squirt dies.

I did number 3, squirt died, squirt was mafia. The chance of me being mafia are extremely slim, although I will grant you that there is that chance, but i'd have thought my actions yesterday showed just how unlikely that is.
Also, if I was the cop (which I'm not) I would certainly have investigated me overnight, so hopefully there is at least one person who knows i'm telling the truth. However, let me make it perfectly clear, this is in no way a call for the cop to come forward and back me up, they should categorically not reveal themselves at this stage.

Speaking of which...

You're not actually trying to out the cop here are you?

Wait, i've got it, your going for the of the game award, aren't you

I put up a theory, I defended it, my theory was proved to be 100% correct, i've subsequently defended you even though it would have been relatively easy for me to start a bandwagon against you, as i don't think you are scum, and yet you vote for me?

Yup.

Nick is a complete Barmpot.
I like Alberto's theory, but agree with Trooper that they didn't need to do any of that.
Trooper assertion that he has to be a goody because he is so loud smacks of trying too hard

And to answer Malc74:

Actually, I did have a vested interest in keeping Squirt alive, although I did not know it, for he was my long lost brother and I wanted to remove him from the Mafia (I did not know he was looking for me though).

So I am now in mourning - all my discussions will be in black.

I have 2 main interesting parties at the moment

Nickachu - Just being crazy basically and going against the face of reason yesterday and then pushing quite hard for me today. He is either scum or the lunatic, either way we are best rid.

However...

Goddess Jasmine - Came into the day reasonable late yesterday, when Squirt was gaining votes, but not enough to be a bandwagon, and conveniently "hadn't read enough to vote". Didn't vote for squirt at all in the end. Came in today accusing Grim... of being the Don, which is specific and I don't think makes much sense as I don't agree with the theory that his mafia at all, let alone the don, and her theory was down to the fact that a quiet one had been killed. Seems like that could have been a relatively simple mafia framing plot, lets kill a quiet one and try and frame someone from the first day who was talking about getting rid of quiet ones. Then to follow that all up with asking about why squirt and not kovacsc, when it seemed pretty obvious that it was just a random quiet one selection, that smacks of someone trying to work out if another player has access to more information and whether they should be worried about them.

[vote: goddess jasmine]

I was accused of trying too hard yesterday as well, that trying too hard got rid of a mafia.



Oooh interesting indeed. That sounds plausible. Lets see if there is a counterclaim

Well, I must say this has moved on a bit,

I'm liking what people are saying about Grim... here, it has a certain ring of truth to it.

So, to that end:

[vote:grim...]

Malc

PS I'm going to be busyish until Lunch time, but I'll try and keep an eye on what's going on

This is a handy little list we've got going.

People voting for me would be advised to today's (ie. the 21st) posts quite carefully.

Perfect.

Wut.

I think Grim... thinks that this was all a perfectly played mafia plot, and that it was a day 1 sacrifice of Squirt by me, and the people today who are arguing that it would have been a crazy thing to do, are also in on it.
Basically he thinks Craster and I are playing a very convoluted game, and that he is the only person clever enough to have worked it out

So, with that in mind [vote:craster] Sorry dude, I have no idea if you are scum or not, but if you do turn out to be, then that should go a bit further to clearing my name!

Yeah, getting more convinced now.

What is this I don't even.

It seems there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise. Calling out exactly what you think for everyone to see and latch onto if they want, and then voting for Craster is the actions of mafia is it? I expect you'll pull me up next for protesting too much and that is what mafia would do, and then when I stop protesting, you'll pull me up on that and say that going quiet it exactly what mafia would do, and me voting for Craster is again exactly what mafia would do, and if I take my vote away from him then that would be exactly what mafia would do...

It's almost as if you aren't willing to listen to reason, which sounds very much like yesterday, and look how that turned out. 1 mafia down, and you wrong.

This is annoying, as I really don't think you are mafia, so I don't want to vote for you, but you are making it easy for people to vote you out and then we'll be another townie down.

I'd say it fits quite well.


No - I've said quite clearly why I think you're Mafia.


I wasn't wrong.


It's working out quite nicely, actually.

So why do you think I'm Mafia? I'm totally lost.

Because you don't think the Mafia would vote out their own guy on day one, and you've been a bit vocal about it.

I'm just suspicious so far, but like Trooper says, you get information if you vote on day 1, and that's the information I got. Plus some more from today, obv.

Explain please? How is that better than just ignoring your idiocy and letting you get lynched, as that is what seems likely to happen at the moment.


and i've said quite clearly how ludicrous this "super plan" idea of yours is.
Wait, actually maybe this is all part of an uber plan! Both you and I, and Squirt and Craster are all mafia and the whole of the first day was a total show and we are actually gaming savants! Or, more likely the simplest explanation is the truth and sacrificing a mafia on the first day is stupid, especially how easy it would have been to get a no lynch and for them to be in a much better position today.



Not quite sure how you work that out. You said that lynching on the first day always gets a goody. It didn't.



It really isn't, if you are a townie.

Oh, and as voting for craster seemingly has no bearing on penetrating your wall of paranoia, i'm going back to [vote: goddess jasmine] for reasons already stated.

No doubt that is part of the mafia plan too...

I said it once, didn't I? Because I really do think that if there's only what, 3 or 4 of you, immediately throwing one of them under a bus to establish credability is crazy.