Be Excellent To Each Other

That's a perfectly fine use of 'fanboys'

So this week's Apple TV update has it in there. Hurrah!
Go and try to get it working - can't set it on the device itself, have to use a configuration profile.
Assume that means the iPhone Configuration utility. It doesn't
Go and get the Apple Configurator
Create the configuration profile for the Enterprise Wireless connection
Plug in device. Attempt to update device.
"Tap accept on device to install profile"
.....
Uh. Configurator doesn't really seem to support Apple TVs yet.

Were you wearing the turtleneck I bought you?

No. That was probably my issue.

If I wasn't a member of Beex, I would've pressed UPDATE the very next time I synced my 4S to iTunes, in the totally false belief that 'Apple have updated the OS so it can only be better'. (Thankfully you guys have alerted me to the situation so they can feck right off).

Obviously I'm very much within the 'unthinking munter' category of Apple phone users - but then most are. In the nicest possible way, that's a key reason why they've paid a whacking premium, like I have, to have an Apple phone; I just want the thing to work, with no geek type issues or other problems, which to be fair, this 4S and the 3S it replaced always have. The last thing I would've ever expected would be for Apple to hobble, nay wipe out, the perfectly good bundled mapping app and would've been mightily pissed off had I updated the iOS without any ability to roll it back.

Personally I can well understand why people are pissed off with this; it's a ridiculous situation IMO. Apple have really netted an own goal here.

I will have to say, though, iOS6 maps had better luck in Chicago than I expected, whereas Google Maps sent us down some bleak alleyways on occasion. The main thing I miss is the public transport information - Google's data for that is pretty decent, and I have no idea why Apple didn't even seem to *try* to handle transit (the US does have a lot of decent transit in the larger cities, and even some smaller ones, so it'd be worth their while, surely?).

This is what I was getting at Cavey, albeit with rather a lot of effing and blinding, my reaction was emotional because I get emotional when people/organisations fuck with my family - which is what Apple were attempting to do with iOS6.

I paid the 'Apple Premium' because I believed I was buying into a low hassle experience, whereby I could effectively entrust the device to Mrs AE and AE Jnr and not give her any special instructions. I knew about the 'walled garden' approach, I knew about the lock-in to iTunes, I knew that Apple wouldn't let anything run on there that wasn't authorised - all of this was good because it meant the thing would just work and I wouldn't have to worry about it breaking on them.

i.e. Just let iTunes update itself when it wants to (although this appeared to be bad advice as it's managed to get Safari, Quicktime, some sort of iCloud software and other bollocks on Mrs AE's laptop as well, none of which we asked for, none of which we want, and all of which installed itself by default with iTunes updates).

i.e. Just let the iPad update itself when it wants to, except it turns out that with iOS6 Apple were prepared to downgrade the device under the auspices of an 'upgrade', removing a perfectly good and well liked app, and replacing it with a stinking sack of shit.

Apple broke the 'unspoken bond of trust' that they've always sold themselves on, the whole notion that they're not like everyone else, you pay more because they do it better.

Well that's all thrown in the dustbin now, and they're relegated to the simple status of 'just another company' - therefore their products are no longer worth one penny more than anything their competitors chuck out of the door.

Gosh.

AE I am sorry that the IOS6 update will upset your son.

But I don't think apple intentionally went out to hurt any one, they just changed an app. Why don't you get put on the mailing list of the CEO so he can run stuff past you!

RE itunes on the PC. I don;t have halve the stuff on mine other than itunes. Just check that the software updater does.

I just find the amount of over reaction about an App changing is out of proportion.

I suppose working for one of the countries larges outsourcing IT companies, I get this daily when we change folks form OS to a more modern OS, and there well loved 8/16/32bit app won't work any more. There is a lot of sky falling in posturing.

At the end of the day it is an app. if you must upgrade on day one, infact the same hour IOS6 was released. If you are OS and Application sensitive, you could have waited and not update at all.

By default when Apples Itunes updater comes along it just automatically adds in Safari / Quicktime and various other things (and then updates those as well)

If you know what your doing then yes you can untick those boxes but as AE mentioned this was specifically done for someone who was not.

What?

Apple dropped a massive fucking clanger with this IMO, they really did. They can't just start downgrading millions of devices all over the world and not expect a decent number of folk to get fucked off with them and decide that, on balance, they'd rather not spend £500 on another one of their fucking phones or tablets.

If Microsoft pulled this kind of shit they'd get eviscerated.

edited now

Oooh, so close!

Perhaps. I'm yet to actually have a go with one and form an opinion.

What they didn't do, though, is "fuck with your family". It's computer, not a mafia hitman.

So if microsoft discontinued an app in a later version of an OS?

which they've done countless times.

They made a decision to release an OS 'upgrade' that would have removed my daughter's favourite app from her iPad, and would have replaced it with a buggy piece of shit that's missing key features of Google Maps. (Street View being the most significant.)

Workaround or not (and maps in Safari is a poor substitute), the fact remains this is a SERIOUS DOWNGRADE to the device as per its usage in our household.

They had no intention of asking us if we wanted them to do this, they offered up no warning whatsoever in the 'upgrade' notes that Google Maps would be gone after the process had completed - in short, Apple released an OS upgrade that if it had been available the next time Mrs AE plugged the iPad into her laptop, it would have been installed, and it would have fucked a significant part of its functionality as far as my daughter is concerned.

If someone came into your house uninvited in the middle of the night, broke your child's favourite toy, and then scarpered out of a window - that would be 'fucking with your family', would it not?

I don't see why the same principle can't apply to Apple taking it upon themselves to fuck our iPad given half the chance.

Have I wandered into an unaired episode of Brasseye by mistake?

I've made this point clear time and time again. Apple sell themselves on not being like Microsoft, of behaving 'better', having better products and better software and having a 'relationship' with their customers.

It's why we had Steve Jobs personally introducing new products to the world, evangelising about them, making it very obvious that the stuff his company sells is different, is better, and is worth the price premium.

This is all it comes down to, I expected, somewhat naively, that Apple really were as good as they and their legion of fans made them out to be. That's why I dropped the cash on the iPad, because I figured it was a good, safe bet for my family - and that I wouldn't end up in the situation where I have to say to Mrs AE 'Do not connect the iPad to your laptop and under no circumstances let it upgrade itself to iOS6', and then explain to her the various means by which that might happen. (It's only a couple of clicks away under 'General' in the settings, as it'll happily self-destruct itself over wireless.)

Explaining to her what to do and what not to do has always been the preserve of Windows PCs, now it's Apple as well - they just lost their USP. I may as well get a £200 Android Tablet and explain what to do and what not to do on that.

Regarding Safari, I was referring to the default browser setting. If Windows didn't let anything but IE be the default browser, they'd get torn a new arse. As it stands I use safari more than Chrome because when I have a browser launched by something else, I tend to need my bookmarks in there as well, so it makes sense to keep on. Given the choice to keep one on and bin the other completely, I'd be Chrome all the way.

I know the iPad 3 came out after Jobs died but the iPhone 5 has come out best part of a year afterwards and is a much better yardstick of a post-Jobs company than the iPad 3.

AE, can't you use google maps on an iPad browser like you can when using it on a laptop/PC? I haven't used an iPad so don't quite know what the difference in the browsers is, but you can use street view on the Google website on the computer.

Yes you can. But apple will eat your children.

And then your children will eat apples (one a day, to keep the doctor away) and so the circle is formed. Explodes!

I like eating Apples, but only between the hours of 8am and 8am.

Let the man behind angry. Sadly, it won't make any blind bit of difference. I give it a month before Google maps is launched at £2.99.

Mark my words

3/10

I find it amusing people seem to think Google will soon be some kind of maps saviour. The old Maps app wasn't amazing but it was good; also, it was made by Apple. By contrast, Google's apps on iOS are… well, I think perhaps the kindest description is 'variable'. We could also bung in 'made without care' to describe some of them, too. Anyone who's thinking Google Maps when it comes out in a few months will definitely be amazeballs clearly hasn't used the new YouTube app.

Google may not have amazing iOS app creation skills, but they do have a pretty damned incredible underlying dataset for the mapping information - and I think that's the primary complaint about the iOS6 app, that the data is missing, wrong, or lacking detail.

I want Google's data in Apple's new app. And a pony. And the moon. On a stick. No, not that stick. That other one.

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/26/app ... n-dispute/

It seems it might have been disagreement over navigation that caused the issue.

Assuming that's true I suspect it'll turn the tide of opinion on the whole thing a bit because it makes Google look a bit like dicks; although Apple could and should still have waited until their product was fit for purpose before removing Google Maps no matter the reason for the change.

I don't think Google were being dicks for asking for a few concessions before Apple could use turn-by-turn in the app. It's their data, if Apple were so keen on using it a few concessions (which, if they're as listed in that article, are pretty minor - just a few more Google logos slapped about and integration into Google Latitude) shouldn't have been a problem.

Both sides couldn't agree on stuff they wanted to do, so it didn't happen. Hardly a rare event, I suppose.

I dunno, I can understand Apple being hesitant about tying their users in to Google products and services and it makes sense to me they'd want to license the data itself but to then wrap it in an app in whatever way they see fit. That attitude can't have come as much of shock to Google so it comes across to me as them thinking they have Apple by the bollocks so just twisting as hard as they can to see what they can get out of it. Apple have then took the hard decision of going out on their own to an extent so they can have the app they want without making allowances to one of their biggest competitors.

Like I say, they shouldn't have made the switch until the app was ready for prime time and that bullshit arrogance is entirely on them. But I can see why they'd make a move in that direction if that story is true.

I like to think of myself as the average man on the street.

I'm a man, for starters, but also I live on a street and I'm fairly average looking.

My first Apple phone was an iPhone 4S.

I've had a variety of phones over the years but this one blew me away. One of the Apps that got the most use was the Googlemaps. Not only could they accurately pick me my position using some kind of freaking magic but it could direct me places to go without a Satnav. Which was lucky, cause I ain't got one.

I can't explain what awesome voodoo is going on in the phone but the GPS stuff was utterly mind blowing. I used it lots.

I still use it lots because I haven't updated my software.

I don't read the tech press and I didn't catch the 10 O'Clock news that day it was on. I haven't plugged my iPhone into my laptop for sometime either but if I did and I was asked whether I wanted to do so I would probably click yes without thinking about it or reading the T&C's to see what functions are improved. I wouldn't expect anything to be removed. Updating software functionality just seems to be how things are done these days.

And that is my tale of intrigue, woe and suspense. I bid you ado. No, adue.

Of course they were. Google had something Apple wanted & to provide it they required some kind of benefit in return. That's how contracts work.

I'm looking forward to getting my iPhone and the new Maps software. I like surprises and visiting new places.

It appears that the speed increases in Safari on iOS6 come from incredibly agressive caching on the device. Like, caching of pages that should be session-restricted. Like displaying your bank account after you've logged off...

I wish my bank account were lots of ones and zeroes.

Fucking Google up to their old tricks again!

Two problems there. First, the suggestion is Apple's license would have run out before the likely release/intro of iOS 7. Changing maps mid-iOS life would have been an even bigger clusterfuck. Secondly, Apple might have thought its maps were ready. It's not exactly well-versed in this particular industry. (See also: Ping/Game Center in the social space.)


This depends on your definition of minor. Apple has very different thinking than Google regarding privacy and user data. I can't imagine Apple would have been thrilled with its own Maps app firing an increasing amount of user data to Google, not least given Google having screwed Apple not that long ago by ignoring Safari privacy settings.

Fundamentally, given what's being suggested by Gruber and others regarding timelines, I think Apple made the right call. Unfortunately, I also think it went about the release in entirely the wrong way, as Gassée said recently. Instead of boasting about its solution, it should have said it was building something great. The features should have been gone over, but "we need your help to make it great". Make the 'report' stuff more prominent for a few revisions. Get people involved. Instead, Apple's come across like every other company that boasts about its amazing product that comes up short, and that's not good enough, nor does it set expectations. (Siri, by contrast, was unveiled as something potentially amazing, but with shortcomings. Now, I frequently hear people saying it's better than they thought it would be.)

That isn't good, but at least there is some level of caching now! It can be frustrating on a 3G connection having Safari attempt to reload everything every time you hit the back button.

I agree. As they still had a fair amount of contract left with Google, they should have released Apple maps as a "beta" this time around and let people have both the original and beta at the same time if they wanted, then switched off the original once Apple maps was ready.

I don't see how. This was a clustefuck purely because of the shite quality of the app; not the point in their OS upgrade process that they rolled it out. And even if you keep this kind of thing to major OS upgrades the worst case scenario is that they buy the existing level license from Google for longer than they actually need it (i.e. past the point that iOS7 or whatever goes out). That's only a problem for them and I'm sure they can afford it. It's definitely not an excuse for forcibly replacing a good app with a shite one as far as their customers are concerned.

It appears that it's caching the response to HTTP POST requests, which I don't believe it's really supposed to do. In vanilla HTML it's not typically an issue, because the POST response is generally to load a page that then accesses the data you're after - but if you're using AJAX, that POST response is the data you're after.

Then this just makes it more clusterfucky. The 'lifespan' of an OS is theroretically unlimited, if an individual user doesn't ever install to the new OS or a new OS is never issued. Therefore if the license valid at the moment in time that the OS is released to the wild, then it would be fine. At some point in the future, the license will no longer be valid and so iOS6.1 (or whatever) would be the first that had to make the change that they have made anyway. Given Delta updates, that may not have been too significant an undertaking of itself. You could argue then that people would be slower to take on a non-substantial upgrade.

I'd hazard a guess that the licence applies to new devices sold, so all new iOS devices lose access to maps, but previous customers do not. Any other way of structuring it results in some nonsensical end scenario. There's precedence; for example, Microsoft's licence for the DVD codec included in Win 7 has not been renewed for Win 8, but existing Win7 users aren't going to lose it.

I have just used the iOS 6 maps turn-by-turn feature and it got me to where I wanted to be with no fuss. That is all.

I am slightly concerned there's a lot of noise about this issue from people who haven't actually used it yet. I'm not saying it doesn't have its problems (and the Tumblr site is hilarious), but it seems ok to me so far.

Will continue to use and report further.

Because apps and dev cycles last for a year, and also changes are signposted at keynotes. Compare the to iOS 6.2 (or whatever) sneaking out in February and replacing Maps.


The suggestion being Google was willing to sell at terms Apple would agree with, and would have been willing to do so had it had confirmation Apple was to replace Google's data with its own.


I wrote a tutorial about the app recently, and my findings were that for basic directions it's often OK, with the caveat that you're more specific than you'd need to be than with Google Maps about where you're going. iOS 6 Maps isn't very bright when it comes to assumptions on directions based on a single term. As per my blog, it for me thinks a London business with 'Truro' in its name is a better bet than Truro in Cornwall. And Luton still sends you to Devon, unless you add 'Bedfordshire'. Maybe Apple just really likes the south-west.