Be Excellent To Each Other

I don't need the mental image of Mali's brownian motion at lunchtime, thanks.

As much as I hate Liverpool FC, its fans and their belief that they should win the league every year, its board, Kenny Dalglish and Luis Suarez, I can't disagree with the verdict.

She'd have teabagged your uncle?

She'd be part of the Bulge family.

I'm just saying that technically Revstu was right, when lots of people were saying he was completly wrong, now with the debate in here I've moved (in my own belief) much further into thinking that revstu is wrong to try and blame the individuals in the crowd, but their actions did cause it (if that makes sense).

In my mind (what I'm trying to get my head around) is I guess it's like being drunk, you still did the stuff you did, but it's stuff you wouldn't normally do. In the case of being drunk it's no defence, in the case of being in a crowd it perhaps is.

Malc

In a crowd, there isn't really too much of a choice.

The crowd acted no differently to every crowd before them, and how crowds act today. The only difference were the external factors. Yes, without a crowd there is no crush; that doesn't mean they are to blame, no more than a car is to blame for a drunken nutter driving it into a crowd of children.

I'm not sure how much clearer that can be.

All right, calm down.

Indeed. I think what I was getting at, Malc, was that yes, Stu is "technically correct" in that the fact is, Liverpool fans crushed other Liverpool fans. The rest is, frankly, bollocks. And to even acknowledge that he is "technically correct" is to give credence to that bollocks. Which is why I don't see the point of what you're saying. Nobody disputes the technical fact that Liverpool fans crushed Liverpool fans. That's what happened. It's the other stuff that is far more important.

You can prove anything with facts and documentation from a panel of experts trawling over every detail and document for two and a half years. I reckon diffferent. BEAR THE BRUNT OF MY FORCE FIVE RECKON.

Stu and Malc have a point; if the ground was empty, no one would have died!

This is facetious, but entirely on the money. POTW contender. Classic BEEX.

No one nominated my WTB/Alberto screenplay from last week, so I won't hold my breath.

Indeed, although people at the front were crushed to death, people outside the ground would also have been deeply uncomfortable. They too will have wished to escape this, and moving forward, in the not-unreasonable belief that the situation inside the stand was better and correctly managed, is the most natural route to take.

Aw!

Except, erm, multiple people did, and it was in the beex weex as "Android in the firing" (Alberto in the future, if you were wondiering)

POTW!

He probably didn't click on it due to his burning hatred of android phones, the fool.

Now that the 96 have got justice, could Liverpool fans please stop having digs at Man U over Munich. It makes them look like hypocritical cunts.

You're talking about a very small minority of idiots. I'm not a Liverpool fan. Nor am I a Man Utd fan. Nor should any of that even be relevant in an adult conversation, but I'd like to make it clear anyway. Stop tarring everyone with the same brush. And for the record, a small minority of Man Utd fans chant about Hillsborough in a similar fashion.

Stu is correct, if you take the point of view that the bullet kills and not the gun or the person firing it.

Which would be fucking stupid.

Also, the central pens were crushed because the gate was opened. The gate was opened because of the crush outside. The pens were closest to the gaIt is not illogical to assume that people would be swept through the now open gate towards pens 3 and 4.

That was awful. I didn't make a point of staring at it, but holy crap your eyes tune into details quickly which you can't unsee.

Are we all agreed that you-know-who is a completely indefensible sociopathic troll?

Harsh. I'm not completely indefensible.

You pretty much are.

Yeah, even the Chewbacca defence doesn't apply to you, dude.

You're a very shitty lady.

Police cover-up "known for years".

This story made me cross yesterday:

http://t.co/83s4UE7l5J

Liverpool Echo trying to make out the BBC have destroyed the original Hillsborough footage for maximum outrage.

Yes the footage would have been destroyed, AFTER it had been copied to D3 tape as part of the archiving project that ran in the mid 1990's. In fact 2 copies of every 1 inch tape were made. D3 is a lossless digital format ideally suited to archiving composite video sources such as 2 inch and 1 inch tape because it preserves the original PAL encoding unlike formats such as Digibeta which are component.

Article then goes on to mention that the copies are lower quality and will hinder identification of people. Again D3 copies are identical to the originals. Providing the original tape is played out properly you get a pristine identical copy but in lovely lossless digital format. Unlike, say, trying to play back a 25 year old tape in an analogue format on equipment that has been obsolete for 15 years.

But hey, lets not let the facts get in the way of stoking up resentment eh Liverpool Echo? You only need to read the comments on that article to see the intended effect is happening.