Hillsborough.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:57

It's all kicking orf!

David Cameron wrote:

The families were right: 164 police statements were altered. 31 lives could have been saved. The Sun helped with the cover up.

On the news channels now.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:00

Oh for FFS. This is got going to end well for anyone.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

Wow. That's pretty earth-shattering stuff.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38654

Jesus. Liverpool is going to be... interesting for a while.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

But everyone, including the government who had the fecking documents, knew all this before anyway. Cameron can't pretend this has come as a surprise.

KovacsC · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:05

Could it be the end of the sun?

Zardoz · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:05

Wow.

Quote:

The report finds flaws in the police operation and new evidence that the police carried out checks on those who had died in order to "impune their reputations"

That's fucking disgusting.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:06

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

But everyone, including the government who had the fecking documents, knew all this before anyway. Cameron can't pretend this has come as a surprise.

What the fuck will happen now?

myp · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:08

Maybe they'll shut the Sun and open a new paper about recent events around the globe.

What to call it, what to call it...

ApplePieOfDestiny · **Joined:** 17th Dec, 2008 **Posts:** 8293

The Last Salmon Man wrote:

Maybe they'll shut the Sun and open a new paper about recent events around the globe.

What to call it, what to call it...

The News of the World on (Monday to Saturday). Go with the least damaged brand.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

The Last Salmon Man wrote:

Maybe they'll shut the Sun and open a new paper about recent events around the globe.

What to call it, what to call it...

Uranus?

KovacsC · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:10

The Last Salmon Man wrote:

Maybe they'll shut the Sun and open a new paper about recent events around the globe.

What to call it, what to call it...

Dare I fall in to the trap and say the Daily Planet?

Cavey · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:11

The Last Salmon Man wrote:

Maybe they'll shut the Sun and open a new paper about recent events around the globe.

What to call it, what to call it...

The Tally Ho at this rate (of The Prisoner fame of course).

Dimrill · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:11

More questions being asked about The Sun now. MP asking for defamation charges to be brought against the paper.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Dimrill wrote:

It's all kicking orf!

David Cameron wrote:

The families were right: 164 police statements were altered. 31 lives could have been saved. The Sun helped with the cover up.

On the news channels now.

Did he really say that about the Sun, btw? Or is he being paraphrased? If he said that that's the end of the Sun, surely?

Dimrill · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:13

Cameron says no. Seems to blame everyone in the country for "going along with it" and "it's up to the papers themselves"

myp · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:22

KovacsC wrote:

The Last Salmon Man wrote:

Maybe they'll shut the Sun and open a new paper about recent events around the globe.

What to call it, what to call it...

Dare I fall in to the trap and say the Daily Planet?

The trap of being a belming idiot?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

The Last Salmon Man wrote:

KovacsC wrote:

The Last Salmon Man wrote:

Maybe they'll shut the Sun and open a new paper about recent events around the globe.

What to call it, what to call it...

Dare I fall in to the trap and say the Daily Planet?

The trap of being a belming idiot?

A well worn path, that.

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:26

Dimrill wrote:

More questions being asked about The Sun now. MP asking for defamation charges to be brought against the paper.

Genuine question: Who has the paper defamed? You can't defame dead people, nor groups of people. Unless it had named individuals and stuff.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:27

I've got a camping supply shop halfway down.

Anyway, they're all thanking each other now. Cameron keeps being asked if charges will be brought against "the media", but he's rightly deflecting these reiterating that it's not government's job to bring charges.

Morte · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:27

It was pretty shocking stuff. During the statement in the Commons I've never heard gasps in the House before.

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:29

Full statement

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:36

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

Dimrill wrote:

It's all kicking orf!

David Cameron wrote:

The families were right: 164 police statements were altered. 31 lives could have been saved. The Sun helped with the cover up.

On the news channels now.

Did he really say that about the Sun, btw? Or is he being paraphrased? If he said that that's the end of the Sun, surely?

Not in the statement. He said

DC wrote:

The Sun’s report sensationalised these allegations under a banner headline “The Truth.”

This was clearly wrong and caused huge offence, distress and hurt.

News International has co-operated with the Panel and, for the first time, today’s report reveals that the source for these despicable untruths was a Sheffield news agency reporting conversations with South Yorkshire Police and Irvine Patnick, the then MP for Sheffield Hallam.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:47

Boris now under fire.

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:48

Sheffield Wednesday wrote:

Sheffield Wednesday FC welcomes the release of the Hillsborough Independent Panel report and would like to acknowledge the enormous amount of hard work by all involved during what was, and continues to be, an extremely emotive process.

Throughout the compilation stage, the club has worked closely with the panel and the other donating organisations to ensure that, in line with the ethos of maximum disclosure, we have been totally transparent.

Sheffield Wednesday would also like to record its gratitude for the thoroughly dignified manner with which the Hillsborough Family Support Group and its representatives conducted themselves throughout all levels of consultation with the club.

Since the acquisition of Sheffield Wednesday Football Club in December 2010 and the subsequent decision of the previous board to dissolve the former parent company Sheffield Wednesday PLC , chairman Milan Mandaric and the current board of directors have adopted a policy of complete compliance with the requests of the Hillsborough Independent Panel and on behalf of the club would like to offer our sincere condolences and an apology to all the families who have suffered as a consequence of the tragic events of 15 April, 1989.

We can only hope that the publication of the Hillsborough Independent Panel report goes some way to providing the closure sought by all those involved.

The thoughts of everyone at Sheffield Wednesday FC remain with the 96 Liverpool supporters who lost their lives, their families, and the wider Liverpool community who have all been affected so deeply by the disaster of 23 years ago.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:49

Official panel verdict just about to be read. Worth tuning in to BBC News folks!

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 13:56

Full report

zaphod79 · **Joined:** 16th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14517

All kinds of f**ked up - the initial report said that everyone that died had received fatalities by a specific time and yet today :

Quote:

The BBC's Nick Ravenscroft asks the panel how many people might have been saved if there had been a better emergency service response. Dr Bill Kirkup confirms that 28 people didn't have obstruction of bloodflow and 16 had heart and lung function. He concludes that there is evidence that 41 people in total had the potential to survive.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 14:31

I'd save that page before he deletes it. He's known for editing documents to remove negative references to him.

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 14:31

Dimrill wrote:

I'd save that page before he deletes it. He's known for editing documents to remove negative references to him.

At work, could you?

EDIT: Does ctrl+s work?

Morte · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 14:32

Nah, he's already created a lovely tweet regarding the subject this morning.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 14:33

Bonk.

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 14:43

Morte wrote:

Nah, he's already created a lovely tweet regarding the subject this morning.

He's clearly been busy the last hour on twitter.

WTB · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 14497

Jesus Christ.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Can't open rar files - is that something from twitter then?

Cavey · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 14:53

Man alive, check out that Twitter feed!
That must be a seriously long lunch break at work, there.

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 14:57

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

Can't open rar files - is that something from twitter then?

it was his thread from his forum on Hillsborough and how it was all their own fault.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38654

Some sort of public event has hastily been arranged in Liverpool City centre. Roads closed all over the place

Malc74 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 16:57

MaliA wrote:

Morte wrote:

Nah, he's already created a lovely tweet regarding the subject this morning.

He's clearly been busy the last hour on twitter.

Staggering stuff. Of course, because the Earth rotates at a thousand miles an hour, all the Liverpool fans needed to do was jump in the air and they'd have been catapulted back out of harms way. Stu knows all about physics, he does.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

MaliA wrote:

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

Can't open rar files - is that something from twitter then?

it was his thread from his forum on Hillsborough and how it was all their own fault.

A new one, that's mysteriously disappeared?

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

MaliA wrote:

Mr Kissyfur wrote:

Can't open rar files - is that something from twitter then?

it was his thread from his forum on Hillsborough and how it was all their own fault.

A new one, that's mysteriously disappeared?

No, a really old one that's probably still there.

ETA: It's here in fact and the last post in the thread was 25th of April 2009 so presumably it's not going anywhere any time soon.

Pundabaya · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5016

To be perfectly honest, I agree with Stu. The disaster was caused by Liverpool fans, exacerbated by the systematic failings of the organisational and policing procedures on the day. Failings that should have been picked up because of all the other football related disasters around the time. I mean, fuck me, it was pure luck that there wasn't fatalities at every game back then. A real recipe for disaster. What was everyone on?

flis · **Joined:** 26th May, 2008 **Posts:** 3333

Pundabaya wrote:

To be perfectly honest, I agree with Stu. The disaster was caused by Liverpool fans, exacerbated by the systematic failings of the organisational and policing procedures on the day. Failings that should have been picked up because of all the other football related disasters around the time. I mean, fuck me, it was pure luck that there wasn't fatalities at every game back then. A real recipe for disaster. What was everyone on?

Only as much as someone who is hit by a car causes it by being on the road, surely?

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 19:31

flis wrote:

Pundabaya wrote:

To be perfectly honest, I agree with Stu. The disaster was caused by Liverpool fans, exacerbated by the systematic failings of the organisational and policing procedures on the day. Failings that should have been picked up because of all the other football related disasters around the time. I mean, fuck me, it was pure luck that there wasn't fatalities at every game back then. A real recipe for disaster. What was everyone on?

Only as much as someone who is hit by a car causes it by being on the road, surely?

The Liverpool fans being the people hit and the people driving, yes?

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 20:29

DavPaz wrote:

Some sort of public event has hastily been arranged in Liverpool City centre. Roads closed all over the place

Really?

EDIT: I don't mean to say that you're fibbing or owt, I'm just a bit, "hmm" over that.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38654

Yep. That's as much as I know, though.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 20:51

Was on the nyowz. Some sort of hymn singing thing at the town hall. Or seomthing.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38654

Sounds about right. St Georges Hall though. More central.

Plissken · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 22:30

Pundabaya wrote:

To be perfectly honest, I agree with Stu. The disaster was caused by Liverpool fans, exacerbated by the systematic failings of the organisational and policing procedures on the day.

No. No. No. No. The crush was caused because the order was given to open the gate. The fans did not force that gate open. The crush outside was caused by the system failing to cope with the possibility of too many people wanting to watch a football match.

Quote:

Only as much as someone who is hit by a car causes it by being on the road, surely?

I don't want to get into a slanging match about this, because as you said, and I've pointed this out elsewhere, Hillsborough could have happened at any big match, to any set of supporters in pretty much the same way. To blame the fans for acting exactly how they would have done at any other time (and indeed, the only way they could have given the state of organisation, grounds and policing is like blaming a battered wife for stabbing her husband after 20 years of abuse.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Sep 12, 2012 23:37

So why are The Sun in trouble? Did they cover it up recently or is it because of what they all that time ago?

Be Excellent To Each Other

Hillsborough.

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