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 Post subject: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:32 
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https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4311264

Ruh roh. Anyone one have one of the affected games (listed below) to test this?


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<Insert rant about how much better PC gaming is than console gaming here.>


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:39 
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This in light of their being savaged in the media and even in reviews: PC Gamer notably made a point of deducting huge amounts off their scores and going into great detail describing how their attempts to play the game were interrupted by Ubisoft's DRM (notably being only able to play the first third of HAWX 2 before being unable to reconnect, ever; and Sam Fisher being stopped mid-punch by a 'connection lost' message)

That this is what they were up to all along... I don't know if I'm surprised or not, actually. While they clearly had it in for PC owners, you wouldn't think they'd ever go this far.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:41 
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metalangel wrote:
While they clearly had it in for PC owners, you wouldn't think they'd ever go this far.


I'd be highly surprised if they did. It'd be really rather silly of them, surely?

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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:47 
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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:52 
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What reasoning would be behind them doing this? I'm struggling to understand the benefit.

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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:54 
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Is it not more likely that they've bought in some code that contained the nastiness? Stupidity and laziness rather than evil and malice?


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:10 
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DavPaz wrote:
Is it not more likely that they've bought in some code that contained the nastiness? Stupidity and laziness rather than evil and malice?


More likely stupid implementation of evil.

"Hey, you know how people patch our executables to get around client-side DRM? Wouldn't it be great if we had a way of forcing down executable code to the client so if they did that we could over-ride it?"
"Isn't that a bit of a security risk?"
"Uh - whatever. Nobody will ever know it's there, so it's not like anyone would use it maliciously"

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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:10 
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I've got Driver San Fransisco installed.

The exploit works on my PC 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:21 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
What reasoning would be behind them doing this? I'm struggling to understand the benefit.

For the LOLs.

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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:22 
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Craster wrote:
More likely stupid.

"Hey, you know how people patch our executables to get around client-side DRM? Wouldn't it be great if we had a way of forcing down executable code to the client so if they did that we could over-ride it?"
"Great idea!"
Feex.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:25 
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What does that link actually do if you've got the relevant browser plugin on your machine?


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:27 
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The link-linked seclist posting de-obfuscates the gibberish base64-encoded command in the middle: it runs the Windows Calculator. That is, arbitrary code execution.

I'm not sure how useful that is with normal Windows tools; perhaps it could get ftp.exe to download something, then run it. Presumably with Administrator rights, since most people still do that.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:30 
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Bamba wrote:
What does that link actually do if you've got the relevant browser plugin on your machine?

Leekspin.

That costs you £2 a month.

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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:30 
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I'd be interested to see what malicious use it actually gets put to, I'd imagine you'd have to visit a website set up with nefarious intent, or that was at least running some code linked from elsewhere, or something - it's not really my sort of area.

I've disabled the Ubisoft Firefox plugins and that's stopped the exploit working as linked from that site.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:32 
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Thinking on, it could easily modify your hosts file to go via a nasty proxy to facilitate drive-by-ing, for one thing. And turn the Windows Firewall off for another.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:39 

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Hopefully they will fix it in time for AC3 release


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:00 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
I'd be interested to see what malicious use it actually gets put to, I'd imagine you'd have to visit a website set up with nefarious intent
You would. Except, the usual way things like this get exploited is by attackers compromising vulnerable websites (Wordpress is a popular target) to hand out the malicious code to visitors. So it's not like it's only going to happen if you go clicking dodgy links. It could happen anywhere.

BikNorton wrote:
Thinking on, it could easily modify your hosts file to go via a nasty proxy to facilitate drive-by-ing, for one thing. And turn the Windows Firewall off for another.
It can do pretty much anything it wants at that point; the machine is wide open. Installing a secondary rootkit would be the logical first step, and that would probably include a rights elevation attack to get around users running not-as-admin.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:07 
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Hmm, I've got Silent Hunter 5 (very good game modded) but it's currently uninstalled, as is Uplay.

Where can I find these Ubisoft firefox plugins, in case I've got 'em? How do I remove them?

Cheers Ubisoft, you fucking clods.

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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:21 
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NervousPete wrote:
Hmm, I've got Silent Hunter 5 (very good game modded) but it's currently uninstalled, as is Uplay.

Where can I find these Ubisoft firefox plugins, in case I've got 'em? How do I remove them?

Cheers Ubisoft, you fucking clods.


Just go to Firefox > Add Ons and they're in the list.

As far as I can tell disabling the addons removes the ability for the exploit to operate, certainly the link in DocG's original post stops working with the add-ons disabled.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:29 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
NervousPete wrote:
Hmm, I've got Silent Hunter 5 (very good game modded) but it's currently uninstalled, as is Uplay.

Where can I find these Ubisoft firefox plugins, in case I've got 'em? How do I remove them?

Cheers Ubisoft, you fucking clods.


Just go to Firefox > Add Ons and they're in the list.

As far as I can tell disabling the addons removes the ability for the exploit to operate, certainly the link in DocG's original post stops working with the add-ons disabled.


Ta. Phew, looks like I'm safe.

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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:58 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
BikNorton wrote:
Thinking on, it could easily modify your hosts file to go via a nasty proxy to facilitate drive-by-ing, for one thing. And turn the Windows Firewall off for another.
It can do pretty much anything it wants at that point; the machine is wide open. Installing a secondary rootkit would be the logical first step, and that would probably include a rights elevation attack to get around users running not-as-admin.
Theoretically yes, the question I asked was "what can they do with a standard Windows install + Uplay?", that being the only assumption a nefarious sort should be making.

Thinking more, they could definitely tell the Windows Script Host to not prompt the user about insecure content and run a jscript to download and execute something (amongst many other things).

Even better, they could just embed the payload in the jscript. And "somethingsomethingsomethinganti-virus."


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 13:11 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
I've got Driver San Fransisco installed.

The exploit works on my PC 8)


Luckily I had the foresight to pirate it...

Don't think I have any uplay stuff on my machine after the rebuild anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 13:18 
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Trooper wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
I've got Driver San Fransisco installed.

The exploit works on my PC 8)


Luckily I have the foresight to pirate it...

Don't think I have any uplay stuff on my machine after the rebuild anyway.


I'm not overly concerned by the whole thing TBH, exploits will always exist in all sorts of software, it's not a new phenomenon.

Obviously Ubisoft are cunts for putting it in there in the first place, but it's not the kind of thing I'm going to lose any sleep over.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 13:30 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
I'm not overly concerned by the whole thing TBH, exploits will always exist in all sorts of software, it's not a new phenomenon.

Obviously Ubisoft are cunts for putting it in there in the first place, but it's not the kind of thing I'm going to lose any sleep over.


Whats new is that its a known exploit , that requires some action (if your tech savy enough you disable the plugin or simply uninstall uplay) and that its on millions of machines.

There will be people writing code to exploit it right now , and i bet its weeks at least till Ubisoft release some type of patch

I imagine there will be a lot of people who will not know it’s there and that their machine is vulnerable


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 13:33 
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Story is on Eurogamer now.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... nerability


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 13:38 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:


Its also on Rock Paper Shotgun

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/07 ... -pc-games/


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 13:40 
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zaphod79 wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
I'm not overly concerned by the whole thing TBH, exploits will always exist in all sorts of software, it's not a new phenomenon.
Whats new is that its a known exploit , that requires some action (if your tech savy enough you disable the plugin or simply uninstall uplay) and that its on millions of machines.
And also the fact that Ubisoft put it there knowingly. This is not some small oversight that hackers found a way to exploit. This is a deliberate choice to add a gaping security hole its customer's computers.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 13:43 
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Oh don't get me wrong I'm not excusing Ubisoft's actions in any way, it's twattery of the highest order for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 13:46 
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Chrome users can find the plugin by going to chrome://plugins

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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:11 
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Any explanation of how it would get elevated privileges? Or does it just rely on the fact that 90% of users will either have turned UAC off or would just click "Allow" for any UAC prompt?

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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:22 
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Craster wrote:
Any explanation of how it would get elevated privileges? Or does it just rely on the fact that 90% of users will either have turned UAC off or would just click "Allow" for any UAC prompt?


Not entirely sure TBH, and we have to remember that it isn't a rootkit, or at least not what I understand to be a rootkit, anyway - so the thread title is somewhat misleading IMO.

For starters a rootkit hides itself, this Uplay bollocks can be disabled in about three clicks and the exploit is then entirely mitigated.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:25 
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I'd suggest a rootkit is anything that deliberately permits remote code execution without the user's explicit knowledge. It may not be intended to be malicious, and it may be easy (ish) to disable, but I'm pretty sure it still fits the definition.

Don't forget that a huge number of users won't read any tech gaming sites, and will sit there with their PCs happily running what is effectively a remote exploit without having any idea - and now working exploit code has been published.

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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:33 
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Its not a rootkit in the normally accepted sense of the word however its an exploitable weakness in the software that was installed without any user prompt / question (expect via the general 'do you want to install this game')

It does not have any automatic way to get elevated privileges , however it has full command line access in user space so there are plenty of other exploits which can be used to get higher privileges (or if you happen to still be running XP then your stuffed :-)

One question for those who have disabled the Uplay browser plug in , do the games still run (I've seen plenty of posts that if you uninstall it then the games will not launch)


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:37 
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Craster wrote:
I'd suggest a rootkit is anything that deliberately permits remote code execution without the user's explicit knowledge. It may not be intended to be malicious, and it may be easy (ish) to disable, but I'm pretty sure it still fits the definition.


Erm, no.

I realise we're arguing semantics to an extent but this is an area in which so much bollocks gets spouted, even by generally reputable sources, that being accurate in the terminology we use is important.

This is not a rootkit, it's an exploitable backdoor in a web browser plugin that can be entirely mitigated with a few clicks of a mouse.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:38 
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zaphod79 wrote:
Its not a rootkit in the normally accepted sense of the word however its an exploitable weakness in the software that was installed without any user prompt / question (expect via the general 'do you want to install this game')


Then it's not a rootkit.

The thread title is misleading and should be changed.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:41 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
This is not a rootkit, it's an exploitable backdoor in a web browser plugin that can be entirely mitigated with a few clicks of a mouse.


Just to be clear as well , this mitigation you've done *may* be undone the next time you launch one of your games and it pulls down another update from Ubisoft

(Yes I think they would be stupid to go about it that way but they put the thing in there in the first place and there's no guarantee that they will not release a 'patch' which they think closes the exploit and thus puts the browser plug in back into action)


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:42 
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If you don't know about it and it lets other people do stuff without you knowing, it's a rootkit.

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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:42 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Then it's not a rootkit.

The thread title is misleading and should be changed.


The original news stories all mentioned it as a rootkit as well , its only really the RPS and the Euro-gamer articles which came along later and correctly identified it as a security hole


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:43 
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zaphod79 wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
Then it's not a rootkit.

The thread title is misleading and should be changed.


The original news stories all mentioned it as a rootkit as well , its only really the RPS and the Euro-gamer articles which came along later and correctly identified it as a security hole


I disagree. If it's put there deliberately to allow remote code execution, it's a rootkit. That's the very definition of a rootkit.

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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:46 
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To the Wikipedia-mobile!


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:48 
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MaliA wrote:
If you don't know about it and it lets other people do stuff without you knowing, it's a rootkit.


You can't change what words mean based on your own criteria, that's not how language works.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:49 
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Craster wrote:
I disagree. If it's put there deliberately to allow remote code execution, it's a rootkit. That's the very definition of a rootkit.


It really depends on your definition

The definition of a rootkit originally was some code which could be run to get 'root' (i.e. superuser) access to the system - this does not give that level.

Recently the term rootkit has also been used specifically to include an attempt to hide the code so its invisible to the system (e.g. the Sony DRM rootkit actually hid itself from windows so windows would lie to you if you asked it about the files in question).

Terrible to be using Wikipedia for this but

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootkit

Quote:
A rootkit is a stealthy type of malicious software (malware) designed to hide the existence of certain processes or programs from normal methods of detection and enable continued privileged access to a computer


This does not hide itself from detection / hide the processes it runs , and does not enable privileged access

Have a read of this instead http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_c ... it_scandal

Quote:
This software was automatically installed on Windows desktop computers when customers tried to play the CDs. The software interferes with the normal way in which the Microsoft Windows operating system plays CDs by installing a rootkit which creates vulnerabilities for other malware to exploit. This was discovered and publicly revealed by Mark Russinovich on the Sysinternals blog


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:50 
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Of course it's a rootkit. The first (Windows) rootkits were fairly "trivial" to find, getting more and more sophisticated as AV vendors picked up on their tricks and MS were forced to start taking privileges out of users' hands because users don't care. Early ones simply relied on Windows preventing user-level apps seeing file- and folder- names prefixed with $. No L33T HAXXX0Ring at all.

A rootkit is "software installed without users' knowledge that provides unauthorised access to resources." Anything else is superfluous to the definition.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:50 
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AtrocityExhibition wrote:
MaliA wrote:
If you don't know about it and it lets other people do stuff without you knowing, it's a rootkit.


You can't change what words mean based on your own criteria, that's not how language works.

Yes it fucking is. How else does language evolve? :belm:

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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:53 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
MaliA wrote:
If you don't know about it and it lets other people do stuff without you knowing, it's a rootkit.


You can't change what words mean based on your own criteria, that's not how language works.

Yes it fucking is. How else does language evolve? :belm:


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:55 
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BikNorton wrote:
Of course it's a rootkit. The first (Windows) rootkits were fairly "trivial" to find, getting more and more sophisticated as AV vendors picked up on their tricks and MS were forced to start taking privileges out of users' hands because users don't care. Early ones relied on Windows simply preventing user-level apps seeing files/folders prefixed with $. No L33T HAXXX0Ring at all.

A rootkit is "software installed without users' knowledge that provides unauthorised access to resources." Anything else is superfluous to the definition.


But this makes no effort whatsoever to conceal its presence on the afflicted machine, which is an accepted element of a rootkit by any definition.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:57 
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The Last Salmon Man wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
MaliA wrote:
If you don't know about it and it lets other people do stuff without you knowing, it's a rootkit.


You can't change what words mean based on your own criteria, that's not how language works.

Yes it fucking is. How else does language evolve? :belm:


Alright then, specifically, MaliA can't change what a rootkit is just because he thinks this is a rootkit.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 14:57 
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Sitting balls-back folder

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 10164
It doesn't tell you it's installing, installed or running. You have to hunt it out, even if that's "easy".

Go on, ask everyone you see in real life over the next 24 hours how they find out what plugins their browser has. If it's more than 0 you're lying or I'm really unlucky. ;)

Edit: I don't know how to do that. At least I didn't until Grim... said earlier (type in a fucking URL? Who are Google kidding?). I'd still have to go looking in IE. At least I'm competent enough to know how to do that; most people would get confused when you said "Alright, go into the Internet Options menu...."


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 15:02 
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Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48892
Location: Cheshire
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
The Last Salmon Man wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
MaliA wrote:
If you don't know about it and it lets other people do stuff without you knowing, it's a rootkit.


You can't change what words mean based on your own criteria, that's not how language works.

Yes it fucking is. How else does language evolve? :belm:


Alright then, specifically, MaliA can't change what a rootkit is just because he thinks this is a rootkit.



wiki wrote:
A rootkit is a stealthy type of malicious software (malware) designed to hide the existence of certain processes or programs from normal methods of detection and enable continued privileged access to a computer


MALIATEHAWESUMZ wrote:
If you don't know about it and it lets other people do stuff without you knowing, it's a rootkit

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


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 Post subject: Re: Rootkit found in Ubisoft PC games
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 15:03 
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Paws for thought

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17161
Location: Just Outside That London, England, Europe
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
The Last Salmon Man wrote:
AtrocityExhibition wrote:
MaliA wrote:
If you don't know about it and it lets other people do stuff without you knowing, it's a rootkit.


You can't change what words mean based on your own criteria, that's not how language works.

Yes it fucking is. How else does language evolve? :belm:


Alright then, specifically, MaliA can't change what a rootkit is just because he thinks this is a rootkit.

aIm struggling to see why you care.
egardless of its classification, it comes under tge general header of "shit that you dont want on your computer"r


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