Making Money

asfish · **Joined:** 5th Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 3353

Had to laugh at this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18586854

There is a debate in the US about stopping making 1c coins, its costs the US Goverment 2.4c to make each one!

How can a coin cost more than its worth?

Plissken · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:55

We had something similar with 2p coins didn't we? Something about the copper in each being worth more than 2p?

Weird debate though - it might cost 2.4c to make a 1c coin, but I bet it doesn't cost $50 to make a $50 note.

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:04

There was a really good Planet Money podcast on changing dollar bills for dollar coins, with arguments for and against it. All of which I've forgotten, but it was interesting.

Mr Russell · **Joined:** 6th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 12340

Plissken wrote:

We had something similar with 2p coins didn't we? Something about the copper in each being worth more than 2p?

Weird debate though - it might cost 2.4c to make a 1c coin, but I bet it doesn't cost $50 to make a $50 note.

Yes, but you can't really compare the two.

Imagine my company that sells product A and product B. Even if I make a big profit on product B (but bear in mind you don't know how well each product sells to compare total profit), I'm not going to keep selling Product A if it makes me a loss.

You just cancel Product A rather than being happy that Product B is propping up the losses of the other.

Sir Taxalot · **Joined:** 5th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 4845

No one or two cent coins here, and I'm happy not to have pockets full of dirty copper coins. Really, I don't miss them at all.

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:44

Mr Russell wrote:

You just cancel Product A rather than being happy that Product B is propping up the losses of the other.

You'd think, wouldn't you?

GazChap · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:56

Good, maybe they'll be able to afford to make sensible banknotes that are easy to tell apart from each other.

*grumbles something about giving a taxi driver a $20 tip instead of a $5 one because he couldn't tell the notes apart in the dark*

Slightly Green · **Joined:** 26th Aug, 2010 **Posts:** 2069

GazChap wrote:

Good, maybe they'll be able to afford to make sensible banknotes that are easy to tell apart from each other.

*grumbles something about giving a taxi driver a $20 tip instead of a $5 one because he couldn't tell the notes apart in the dark*

wtf? so making the notes a different sizes and colours isnt enough? why not have one round and one square?

Dude how drunk were you?

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:02

Slightly Green wrote:

GazChap wrote:

Good, maybe they'll be able to afford to make sensible banknotes that are easy to tell apart from each other.

*grumbles something about giving a taxi driver a $20 tip instead of a $5 one because he couldn't tell the notes apart in the dark*

wtf? so making the notes a different sizes and colours isnt enough? why not have one round and one square?

Dude how drunk were you?

Eh? US currency is the same size, and all green.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:16

MaliA wrote:

Slightly Green wrote:

GazChap wrote:

Good, maybe they'll be able to afford to make sensible banknotes that are easy to tell apart from each other.

*grumbles something about giving a taxi driver a $20 tip instead of a $5 one because he couldn't tell the notes apart in the dark*

wtf? so making the notes a different sizes and colours isnt enough? why not have one round and one square?

Dude how drunk were you?

Eh? US currency is the same size, and all green.

Indeed. The wife gave someone 100 dollars instead of a 10, once.

Slightly Green · **Joined:** 26th Aug, 2010 **Posts:** 2069

MaliA wrote:

Slightly Green wrote:

GazChap wrote:

Good, maybe they'll be able to afford to make sensible banknotes that are easy to tell apart from each other.

*grumbles something about giving a taxi driver a $20 tip instead of a $5 one because he couldn't tell the notes apart in the dark*

wtf? so making the notes a different sizes and colours isnt enough? why not have one round and one square?

Dude how drunk were you?

Eh? US currency is the same size, and all green.

i)bugger read it as £ not $, sorry Gaz my bad

ii) It's an easy way to increase postcount, and the higher the post count, the more intelligent you are.

iii) I can't read properly this early in the morning.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:19

The penny thing was a sub-plot on an episode of The West Wing I recently watched, so it's been the case for at least ten years

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22397

Grim... wrote:

The penny thing was a sub-plot on an episode of The West Wing I recently watched, so it's been the case for at least ten years

Block of cheese day, IIRC.

Slightly Green · **Joined:** 26th Aug, 2010 **Posts:** 2069

ohh btw american monies is stupid, in 1929 it shrunk down to todays size of 2.61 inches wide by 6.14 inches long. Also most american people save $2 bills, thinking they are rare and therefore valuable; they're actually worth... $2. All true facts brought to you from my hangover

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:25

Slightly Green wrote:

ohh btw american monies is stupid, in 1929 it shrunk down to todays size of 2.61 inches wide by 6.14 inches long. Also most american people save $2 bills, thinking they are rare and therefore valuable; they're actually worth... $2. All true facts brought to you from my hangover

We should totally let them back into the empire, you know.

Slightly Green · **Joined:** 26th Aug, 2010 **Posts:** 2069

MaliA wrote:

Slightly Green wrote:

ohh btw american monies is stupid, in 1929 it shrunk down to todays size of 2.61 inches wide by 6.14 inches long. Also most american people save $2 bills, thinking they are rare and therefore valuable; they're actually worth... $2. All true facts brought to you from my hangover

We should totally let them back into the empire, you know.

Only if they replace all the tea they wasted in boston....

asfish · **Joined:** 5th Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 3353

On the topic of notes the UK should have a £100 or even £200 note.

Problem is shops don't like the £50 note never mind anything bigger

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

asfish wrote:

On the topic of notes the UK should have a £100 or even £200 note.

Why?

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:49

The UK does have a £100 note

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

GazChap wrote:

Good, maybe they'll be able to afford to make sensible banknotes that are easy to tell apart from each other.

It's a serious problem for blind people, who can't differentiate the notes by touch. I'm surprised the US has never addressed this. There's an iPhone app now which uses the camera to tell blind people which type of note they are carrying.

asfish · **Joined:** 5th Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 3353

In Scotland?

I wouldn't like to get that changed in a shop, some women refused to take a £50 from me the other month

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:57

asfish wrote:

In Scotland?

I wouldn't like to get that changed in a shop, some women refused to take a £50 from me the other month

Yes, it's scottish money.

TheVision · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:58

MaliA wrote:

The UK does have a £100 note

I see what you did there.

Pundabaya · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5016

I haven't seen a fifty in years. Are they still the old style?

The main problem with fifties is that they're never used, so people operating tills aren't familiar with them, so don't want to accept them because fifty quid is a lot to lose on a fake. Because they aren't accepted, they aren't used. So people operating tills aren't familiar with them...

Plissken · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:17

Mr Russell wrote:

You just cancel Product A rather than being happy that Product B is propping up the losses of the other.

True, if you are in the business of squeezing every ounce of profit out of your business.

Printing currency is a bit more important than that.

nickachu · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:19

I found you tend to only see 50 pound notes from tourists, that's what I found anyway, I saw a couple when I came back from foreign kids paying for clothes in some shop, and when I worked at a zoo we got a fair few, only from foreign people.

TheVision · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:25

I used to have a collection of £50 in my bedroom years ago. I used to swap them out the till when I worked at Game.

If anyone had found them they would have thought it was really dodgy but.. Actually, come to think of it.. it was.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

Depends where you are. If you're where the rich people are, the cashpoints hand out fifties. You know you're in a poor area if the cashpoint hands out fivers.

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:27

Fivers are the most commonly forged note, I read somewhere, once.

nickachu · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:28

I loved it when the cashpoint handed out fivers when I was at uni. Easier way to control money when out drinking!

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:29

nickachu wrote:

I loved it when the cashpoint handed out fivers when I was at uni. Easier way to control money when out drinking!

You get them up here very often.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38668

The banks were instructed to make fivers more common in cash machines recently. Or a meringue?

TheVision · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:37

A friend of mine used to really annoy everyone on a night out by only drawing out £5 at a time.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

DavPaz wrote:

The banks were instructed to make fivers more common in cash machines recently. Or a meringue?

You're not wrong.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012 ... te-drought

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Pundabaya wrote:

The main problem with fifties is that they're never used, so people operating tills aren't familiar with them, so don't want to accept them because fifty quid is a lot to lose on a fake. Because they aren't accepted, they aren't used. So people operating tills aren't familiar with them...

Which logically means that forgers must ignore them.

zaphod79 · **Joined:** 16th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14518

Where's Chinny when you need him

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-18699924

Quote:

YouView internet TV service launches in UK
YouView interface Users can use the service to access programmes they missed broadcast up to seven days earlier

YouView - an internet TV service that combines the UK's Freeview channels with on-demand content - has been formally launched.

Users will have access to programmes broadcast over the previous week from the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 and Channel Five as well as the ability to pause and rewind live TV.

The project had originally been scheduled to begin in 2010.

Some analysts have said the delay might have harmed its prospects.

Lord Sugar, the project's non-executive chairman, showed off a set-top box made by Humax which will allow users to access the service.

He said it would cost £299, but added that he would not be surprised if that fell to £99 in a couple of years.

It will be made available in two ways:

From retailers with no further subscription payments necessary. They will begin stocking set-top boxes later this month.
From internet service providers (ISP) as part of one of their broadband packages. BT and TalkTalk - who are among the service's backers - said they would shortly unveil packages which would include additional content.

Sky has said it would add its Now TV product offering access to movies, sport and entertainment at a later date.

STV, Scotland's ITV franchise, also plans to offer on-demand content soon.

Pundabaya · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5016

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Pundabaya wrote:

The main problem with fifties is that they're never used, so people operating tills aren't familiar with them, so don't want to accept them because fifty quid is a lot to lose on a fake. Because they aren't accepted, they aren't used. So people operating tills aren't familiar with them...

Which logically means that forgers must ignore them.

Yeah, pretty much.

There was a trend a while back for those twats who dress like an extra in a P Diddy video flashing fifties. Except it isn't impressive when a: you can see that the twat's wallet is otherwise empty and b: they struggle to actually buy anything.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 14:20

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

GazChap wrote:

Good, maybe they'll be able to afford to make sensible banknotes that are easy to tell apart from each other.

It's a serious problem for blind people, who can't differentiate the notes by touch. I'm surprised the US has never addressed this.

Part of the reason is because of the amount of cash changing hands outside the US. The US$ is the most trusted currency in the world - around $260B worth of paper money is hanging around outside of the US itself* and, naturally, the government is very happy about that. If they change the notes, that cash would become worthless, and trust in the US$ would drop, and people would start collecting pounds or yen or something, and stop swapping a green piece of paper for $100 worth of foreign goods. In effect, the US would have to pay back a $260,000,000,000 foreign loan overnight, and they don't want to do that.

I suppose it doesn't stop them bevelling the edge of the denomination or something, though.

Interesting side note: The paper used in dollars is so hard to forge that the people that actually make the money have a really hard time getting it close enough to the original sample for it to pass tests

* For comparison, around half that is currently in the US, around $450 per person - and most of that is held by casinos, not banks.

ApplePieOfDestiny · **Joined:** 17th Dec, 2008 **Posts:** 8293

Curiosity wrote:

MaliA wrote:

Slightly Green wrote:

GazChap wrote:

Good, maybe they'll be able to afford to make sensible banknotes that are easy to tell apart from each other.

*grumbles something about giving a taxi driver a $20 tip instead of a $5 one because he couldn't tell the notes apart in the dark*

wtf? so making the notes a different sizes and colours isnt enough? why not have one round and one square?

Dude how drunk were you?

Eh? US currency is the same size, and all green.

Indeed. The wife gave someone 100 dollars instead of a 10, once.

Im still convinced that I gave you a $100 in the bills I gave you for dirty hos.

zaphod79 · **Joined:** 16th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14518

Grim... wrote:

Interesting side note: The paper used in dollars is so hard to forge that the people that actually make the money have a really hard time getting it close enough to the original sample for it to pass tests

So then people use smaller denomination notes as the actual paper (was there a Castle episode recently with a forger working with someone who had a vending machine route so they bleached the one dollar bills and re-printed them as 20’s)

Malabelm · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 14:42

Grim... wrote:

Interesting side note: The paper used in dollars is so hard to forge that the people that actually make the money have a really hard time getting it close enough to the original sample for it to pass tests

There was a really good article in Wired recently about this. Well worth a read. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/0 ... eiter/all/

GazChap · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 15:01

I don't believe it. If Beverly Hills Cop 3 taught me anything, it's that US bills are stupidly easy to forge.

Well, that and that there really shouldn't have been a Beverly Hills Cop 3.

zaphod79 · **Joined:** 16th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14518

Malabelm wrote:

There was a really good article in Wired recently about this. Well worth a read. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/0 ... eiter/all/

Nice - reminds me a little of Frank Abagnale's story : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Abagnale

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Grim... wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

GazChap wrote:

Good, maybe they'll be able to afford to make sensible banknotes that are easy to tell apart from each other.

It's a serious problem for blind people, who can't differentiate the notes by touch. I'm surprised the US has never addressed this.

Part of the reason is because of the amount of cash changing hands outside the US. The US$ is the most trusted currency in the world - around $260B worth of paper money is hanging around outside of the US itself* and, naturally, the government is very happy about that. If they change the notes, that cash would become worthless, and trust in the US$ would drop, and people would start collecting pounds or yen or something, and stop swapping a green piece of paper for $100 worth of foreign goods. In effect, the US would have to pay back a $260,000,000,000 foreign loan overnight, and they don't want to do that.

I suppose it doesn't stop them bevelling the edge of the denomination or something, though.

Interesting side note: The paper used in dollars is so hard to forge that the people that actually make the money have a really hard time getting it close enough to the original sample for it to pass tests

* For comparison, around half that is currently in the US, around $450 per person - and most of that is held by casinos, not banks.

So release a new design of the currency whilst not setting a date after which the old design won't be accepted. Problem (partly) solved.

TheVision · **Posted:** Wed Jul 04, 2012 15:24

Or just make the expiry date of the old notes well into the future, like a couple of years.

Or they could just carry on and let foolish tourists pay over the odds for things? Either way, I'm good.

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