Be Excellent To Each Other

Agreed. 100%

That's the point though, Connolly is an equal-opportunities religion hater, because they're all fucking mental, and most of them are astoundingly misogynistic too.

Stewart Lee made a similar point about Christians who say "you'd never say that about Islam", etc. They take the piss out of Christianity because it's what they know. Plus, it's not an obligation of theirs to come up with jokes/ammunition for bitter white cunts to use against minorities.

Ed: point taken, AE. It's just the burqa stuff that always makes me go "oh, here we fucking go".

Was he?

Good Brand excoriation here.

Point taken YOG

I just don't think Connolly, for want of a better way of putting it, 'unfairly' beats up on radical violent Islam, I think he beats up equally fairly on all irrational religious doctrines and more specifically, on those people who espouse those values as having any place in a modern society.

I used to hate him with a passion, but ran out of things to listen to on my ipod a few years back and tried his radio 2 show, and it was actually really good! His improvisation skills were very impressive and he was actually quite self-effacing and humble a fair amount of the time.

It would be one of the worlds crueller ironies if Peter Kay got Alzheimers.

"WAHEY! Remember space hoppers?

...

I don't"

*single tear*

And if Michael McIntyre went blind.

You know what I'd like to see John Bishop in?

A house fire.

FTFY

John Bishop is exactly like about 20% of the population of Liverpool: Mouthy, middle-aged men who are bored of their wives.

I think he's pretty funny, but his shelf-life is very short. Like Peter Kay, he's spunked a lifetime of material into his breakthrough act and is now faced with that difficult 'second album'.

Time will tell.

Peter Kay played to what 500,000 people or more the other year? So I guess some people still like it!

I get the impression that John Bishop was media managed into the comedian he is today. He started out, and was told - "You know what people find really really funny? This 5% of your act!" and so that 5% has now been padded out to 100%, and becomes tiresome and repetitive.

Because of all the KY Jelly?

Indeed. One can only assume they were interested in what he'd remember next!

Just because something is popular doesn't make it good. Look at EastEnders or David Gray.

I didn't say I didn't like what he does, because lord help me, I do. But have you seen the Tour that Didn't Tour, Tour? There's so little material in it that I surprised he can stand on stage for two hours. He carries the show on pure charisma and personality. If he tried to do that exact show on a cold crowd who didn't already love him, I reckon he'd die on his arse.

This is such a ridiculous discussion, you can wibble on about the 'craft of real comedy' and something 'not being good but popular' until the world turns into a watermelon but when all is done you're talking about a topic that's entirely subjective.



Well don't people generally go to shows they expect to like?

I got round to watching his 'Tour that Didn't Tour Tour' DVD a couple of weekends ago and enjoyed it. So DavPaz is wrong.

What I find completely unfunny about him is his Geraldine stuff.

John Bishop is like a guy in the Pub who you'd share a joke with while waiting at the bar then want him to fuck off as soon as you'd got served.

That's exactly what it makes it. What other metric are you going to judge it on?

Pretty much everything we talk about is entirely subjective, man!

Comedy has just gone downhill since this little gem

Metacritic.

David Gray did an excellent vocal on Orbital's Illuminate.

Orbital's 'Right Old Cockney Barrel a Monkeys Knees Up' album done with the cast of East Enders isn't that good though.

Eeeeeeh, remember when t'planet turned into a watermelon? What the bloody 'ell was that about? Mad!

Longevity?

Something that's a flash-in-the-pan but massively popular at the time vs something that is still revered decades later.

Pfft. Organised religion wins that one by a country mile. Using that as your yardstick for quality isn't ideal.

That's still popularity, just "popularity over time".

In fairness, we got some decent music and art out of that.

Not forgetting that some of us rather like it.

Oh, not dissing it directly, merely pointing out that it's the ultimate example of longevity and popularity being the same thing.

What are the Unorganised Religions?

Haphazard Hindu? Sloppy Shinto?

Your mum gives the best sloppy Shinto.

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

Your Mum gives the worst, but we all go back for more.

I'm trying to give her up, actually. It's been just over two months now, and I'm still clean (in both senses of the word).

Everyone expected the Spanish Inquisition. Cos they made appointments, loike.

It's still good to hear your shouts of encouragement coming from the bench though.

While she's on that course of antibiotics it's a great opportunity for anyone trying to break the habit.

I remember literally breaking her habit during some naughty nun shenanigans. It's times like these it's hardest to resist.

It's not quite the same though. Not least because of changing trends and the way things are consumed (far more 'records' were sold as singles back in the 60s; it doesn't mean that the music was inherently better, just that the market changed).

Also, something that lasts is a better yardstick (IMO) than something that doesn't. In this country I'd imagine that something shit like 'Doop' or anything ever by Westlife has outsold something considered 'better' such as Nirvana's 'Smells Like Teen Spirit'.

Also also, I think influence on other people is another important yardstick.

So yes, all types of popularity, but very much not equal to 'Whatever is popular right now = best quality'.

You think it's better. I'd imagine plenty of people would prefer Doop to Teen Spirit.

I agree there's a million and one other things to take into account (advertising makes a massive difference, obviously, and while you can argue that everyone has the opportunity to advertise, I don't buy that (pun!). But everyone in the world is effected by advertising (and media in general, such as X Factor and stuff), so you can't really remove it from equation, so it's just something you have to live with. It does shift the the message slightly from "best song" to "best song people know about", though), but how else can you define how good something is, short of asking everyone in the world their opinion?

Assemble experts in the field and get artists to sumbit their work anonymously.

Why experts? Why not normal people?

Also, what constitutes an expert in 'deciding whether something is good or not'?

I'm offering solutions. Someone else does the details.

You should have submitted your solution anonymously.

Actually, I offered a solution (which already exists). You're debating it