Be Excellent To Each Other

And, you know, party on. Dude.

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Reply to topic  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:03 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69713
Location: Your Mum
So, the new HOC is straight out of school and into our company. She's clever, pretty, good at what she does and gets on well with everyone.
But it turns out that looking at a monitor (even with breaks) all day gives her headaches.

Fuck.

So, er... What now?

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:04 
SupaMod
User avatar
"Praisebot"

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17093
Location: Parts unknown
Does she wear glasses? If not, she probably should.

Does she drink loads of water too? That helps.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:05 
User avatar
Hibernating Druid

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49358
Location: Standing on your mother's Porsche
Image

_________________
SD&DG Illustrated! Behance Bleep Bloop

'Not without talent but dragged down by bass turgidity'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:06 
User avatar
Paws for thought

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 17161
Location: Just Outside That London, England, Europe
Grim... wrote:
So, the new HOC is straight out of school and into our company. She's clever, pretty, good at what she does and gets on well with everyone.
But it turns out that looking at a monitor (even with breaks) all day gives her headaches.

Fuck.

So, er... What now?
What kind of lighting? 60hz flicker does that to quite a few people

Failing that, eye tests?

I'm assuming its not a crt.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:10 
Grim... wrote:
So, the new HOC is straight out of school and into our company. She's clever, pretty, good at what she does and gets on well with everyone.
But it turns out that looking at a monitor (even with breaks) all day gives her headaches.

Fuck.

So, er... What now?



Turn down the brightness?

Or sponser her with paracetamol


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:13 
User avatar
Unpossible!

Joined: 27th Jun, 2008
Posts: 38654
Screen reader and speakers. No need for a monitor!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:22 
User avatar
Ticket to Ride World Champion

Joined: 18th Apr, 2008
Posts: 11897
Tell her to try working naked, I have heard that can help.

Try changing the monitor frequency, or polarized glasses.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:25 
User avatar

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 16636
Tell her to go the opticians first off. Even if her eyes test fine they'll likely give some useful pointers as to what sort of things might be causing it and what to do next.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:27 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55719
Location: California
Refer her to Occupational Health within your company, as they're the experts.

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:41 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69713
Location: Your Mum
myp it wrote:
Refer her to Occupational Health within your company, as they're the experts.

Ha! The what?

She's at the opticians now.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:42 
User avatar
Hibernating Druid

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49358
Location: Standing on your mother's Porsche
We're the consultants, Myps.

*prepares invoice*

_________________
SD&DG Illustrated! Behance Bleep Bloop

'Not without talent but dragged down by bass turgidity'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:43 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55719
Location: California
Grim... wrote:
myp it wrote:
Refer her to Occupational Health within your company, as they're the experts.

Ha! The what?

:DD

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:44 
User avatar
ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
Posts: 22391
Almost certainly glasses related, but you can get screen covers that are supposed to help.

Obviously huge expensive monitors for her and a couple more for yourself would all help massively too...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:44 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27354
Location: Kidbrooke
Get her one of those polarised screens that go over the front of the monitor. they help a lot, apparently.

_________________
We are young despite the years
We are concern
We are hope, despite the times


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:03 

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 5318
*Dons H&S hat*

Firstly, ensure you are compliant: http://www.hse.gov.uk/msd/dse/guidance.htm

Then, consider the following - where is her desk? Does she sit facing the monitor with a window behind it or sort of behind it? How reflective of light is the surface of her desk? I had a union member on the verge of asking for time off over headaches, did an audit of her workspace and moved her to a less reflective, shiny desk, away from windows and this solved the problem.

Is the monitor LCD? How often does she look away from the monitor at papers, etc, and where are they? If it's reasonably often, said papers need to be at the same height/distance as the monitor, preferably next to it, to reduce eye strain which links strongly to DSE related headachery. As othes have said, brightness, monitor frequency, etc all mattr. Stick her elsewhere in the office for a day, different light, model of monitor - see if the specific location/hardware are particularly complicit.

Finally, is she a lazy, spoiled attention whore? This has also been a major contributor to such work-related injuries as headaches in my considerable experience ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:03 

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 5318
Curiosity wrote:
Get her one of those polarised screens that go over the front of the monitor. they help a lot, apparently.



:this:

Should be about a tenner from your large stationary supplier catalogue.

/edit What's an HOC?

/edit also - Pics pls.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:07 
8-Bit Champion
User avatar
Two heads are better than one

Joined: 16th Apr, 2008
Posts: 14517
GovernmentYard wrote:
/edit What's an HOC?

/edit also - Pics pls.


Hot Office Chick


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 13:24 
User avatar
Comfortably Dumb

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 12034
Location: Sunny Stoke
Trooper wrote:
Almost certainly glasses related


Indeed. Pour the gal some drinks.

_________________
Consolemad | Under Logic
Curse, the day is long
Realise you don't belong


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 14:26 
SupaMod
User avatar
Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49244
What does she need a screen for? Is her job description not "Look pretty and fetch breakfast"?

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 14:49 
User avatar
ugvm'er at heart...

Joined: 4th Mar, 2010
Posts: 22391
Craster wrote:
What does she need a screen for? Is her job description not "Look pretty and fetch breakfast"?


Same as yours then?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 18:59 
User avatar
Level 6 Laser Lotus

Joined: 26th Aug, 2010
Posts: 2069
I have been reliably informed that this little beauty helps stop headachs

Image

obviously you would need one for your good self too :DD

_________________
Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 19:05 
User avatar
Ticket to Ride World Champion

Joined: 18th Apr, 2008
Posts: 11897
What even is that?

_________________
No, it was a giant robot castle!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 19:14 
User avatar
Peculiar, yet lovely

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 7046
myp it wrote:
Occupational Health ... they're the experts.


Haaaaahahhahahahahaaaa!

Oh, lord. Excuse me.

_________________
Lonely as a Mushroom Cloud


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 19:17 
User avatar
baron of techno

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 24136
Location: fife
Bobbyaro wrote:
What even is that?


It's Heston Blumenthal's Hair Ray.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 19:17 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55719
Location: California
sinister agent wrote:
myp it wrote:
Occupational Health ... they're the experts.


Haaaaahahhahahahahaaaa!

Oh, lord. Excuse me.

Yeah, you're late to this joke. Well done.

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 19:49 
User avatar
Level 6 Laser Lotus

Joined: 26th Aug, 2010
Posts: 2069
Bobbyaro wrote:
What even is that?



it would be a Ultra Geek 3D Monitor, costs around $20000 (well it did back in 2006, doubt you could get your hands on one now), i am sure Grim needs one

_________________
Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:25 
Excellent Member

Joined: 5th Dec, 2010
Posts: 3353
GovernmentYard wrote:
*Dons H&S hat*

Firstly, ensure you are compliant: http://www.hse.gov.uk/msd/dse/guidance.htm

Then, consider the following - where is her desk? Does she sit facing the monitor with a window behind it or sort of behind it? How reflective of light is the surface of her desk? I had a union member on the verge of asking for time off over headaches, did an audit of her workspace and moved her to a less reflective, shiny desk, away from windows and this solved the problem.

Is the monitor LCD? How often does she look away from the monitor at papers, etc, and where are they? If it's reasonably often, said papers need to be at the same height/distance as the monitor, preferably next to it, to reduce eye strain which links strongly to DSE related headachery. As othes have said, brightness, monitor frequency, etc all mattr. Stick her elsewhere in the office for a day, different light, model of monitor - see if the specific location/hardware are particularly complicit.

Finally, is she a lazy, spoiled attention whore? This has also been a major contributor to such work-related injuries as headaches in my considerable experience ;)



:this:

Your company need to do this, even if you have no OH dept you could find a 3rd party to do it for you.

OH help me all the time at work, people saying they want £100 mouse as they have RSI, most of them back down when OC tell them to go and see a doctor.

If your company doesn't do the DSE then she has a case


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 17:07 
User avatar
Noob as of 6/8/10

Joined: 6th Aug, 2010
Posts: 5579
Location: , Location, Location.
asfish wrote:
If your company doesn't do the DSE then she has a case

Which you may have to fill with money.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:52 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69713
Location: Your Mum
Hello again!

Is there anything in "the rules" about maximum temperatures?

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:53 
User avatar
Hibernating Druid

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49358
Location: Standing on your mother's Porsche
Yes.

And minimum ones.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/faq.htm

_________________
SD&DG Illustrated! Behance Bleep Bloop

'Not without talent but dragged down by bass turgidity'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:54 
SupaMod
User avatar
Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49244
Minimums only, from my limited understanding.

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:54 
User avatar
Skillmeister

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27023
Location: Felelagedge Wedgebarge, The River Tib
I remember asking this when sitting sweltering in the server room. The answer then (10+ years ago) was "no, only minimum".

_________________
Washing Machine: Fine. Kettle: Needs De-scaling. Shower: Brand new. Boiler: Fine.
Archimedes Hotdog Rhubarb Niner Zero Niner.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:55 
SupaMod
User avatar
Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49244
You're the IT guy. Just tell them if they don't get decent air-con in your office right now, the servers will all overheat and all their websites will shut down.

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:07 
User avatar
Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27354
Location: Kidbrooke
That link says 30 degrees.

_________________
We are young despite the years
We are concern
We are hope, despite the times


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:23 
SupaMod
User avatar
Est. 1978

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 69713
Location: Your Mum
Yeah - that's fucking hot.

Oh well.

_________________
Grim... wrote:
I wish Craster had left some girls for the rest of us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:24 
User avatar
Level 6 Laser Lotus

Joined: 26th Aug, 2010
Posts: 2069
Quote:
Where, despite the provision of local cooling, workers are exposed to temperatures which do not give reasonable comfort, suitable protective clothing and rest facilities should be provided. Typical examples of suitable protective clothing would be ice vests, or air/water fed suits.


Grim...you should insist they get you a Ice Vest :DD

Image

You will look awesome

I think the Water cooled suit may be a bit of a over kill however.

Image

_________________
Shin: a device for finding furniture in the dark

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:47 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55719
Location: California
Zardoz wrote:
Yes.

:wrong:

Low is 16 (or 13 if wearing PPE). There is no maximum temperature when you can walk out. The weasel word 'acceptable' is used. You can down tools at lower than 16 if you like, but you don't have a leg to stand on legally for hot temps.

I guess that's because it's rarely ever an issue in this country.

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:49 
User avatar
Skillmeister

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27023
Location: Felelagedge Wedgebarge, The River Tib
I always wear my Personal Pecker Enhancer.

_________________
Washing Machine: Fine. Kettle: Needs De-scaling. Shower: Brand new. Boiler: Fine.
Archimedes Hotdog Rhubarb Niner Zero Niner.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:50 
User avatar
Hibernating Druid

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49358
Location: Standing on your mother's Porsche
The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
Yes.

:wrong:

Low is 16 (or 13 if wearing PPE). There is no maximum temperature when you can walk out. The weasel word 'acceptable' is used. You can down tools at lower than 16 if you like, but you don't have a leg to stand on legally for hot temps.

I guess that's because it's rarely ever an issue in this country.

Excellent. When can you start?

Image

_________________
SD&DG Illustrated! Behance Bleep Bloop

'Not without talent but dragged down by bass turgidity'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:00 
User avatar
Honey Boo Boo

Joined: 28th Mar, 2008
Posts: 12328
Location: Tronna, Canandada
Zardoz wrote:
Excellent. When can you start?

Image


Sorry, I don't see a future at this company.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:45 
User avatar
Sitting balls-back folder

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 10173
Huh. "Naturally ventilated offices Are more than 15% of employees complaining of being too hot or too cold?" Basically, while the minimum is a relatively "hard" limit, a simple percentage of employees can get changes made for highs.

This is relevant to Helen so I've passed it on.

Though I suspect her company would fall back on her mezzanine level's melting occupants not consituting 15% of the total employees, or even just the ones in the same overall room. Or just shrug and ignore it. If they can be arsed shrugging. Let's face it - this is a company where a board member from the Japanese parent (and descendant of founder) took over, and as one of his first actions illegally fired someone, costing the company a ridiculous amount of money. Especially as he was grossly incompetent and negligent so eligible for firing properly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:51 
SupaMod
User avatar
Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49244
You can justifiably request changes, but I don't think you can justifiably down tools and walk out, like you can if it's too cold.

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:54 
User avatar
Hibernating Druid

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49358
Location: Standing on your mother's Porsche
That's fucking daft though, you can always wrap up warmer, it's much harder to keep cool.

_________________
SD&DG Illustrated! Behance Bleep Bloop

'Not without talent but dragged down by bass turgidity'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:56 
User avatar
Gogmagog

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 48899
Location: Cheshire
Zardoz wrote:
That's fucking daft though, you can always wrap up warmer, it's much harder to keep cool.


I manange both. Concurrently.

_________________
Mr Chris wrote:
MaliA isn't just the best thing on the internet - he's the best thing ever.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:23 
User avatar
La Bamba

Joined: 27th May, 2012
Posts: 251
Do those polarised covers actually do anything on an LCD?

I know that they did on a CRT due to the refresh flicker that you're not supposed to see, but do they make a difference on a LCD monitor?

My screen is polarised, and other than seeing very faint lines going horizontally across it I can't say it's easier to look at than my old one.

_________________
Para bailar la bamba


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:51 
User avatar
UltraMod

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 55719
Location: California
Zardoz wrote:
That's fucking daft though, you can always wrap up warmer, it's much harder to keep cool.

It rarely gets above 30 degrees C here though. It's much more likely to be -10. Which is more dangerous? If it regularly got to 40-45 degrees here then you'd have a point, I guess.

_________________
I am currently under construction.
Thank you for your patience.


Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 13:09 
User avatar
Hibernating Druid

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49358
Location: Standing on your mother's Porsche
You're talking about the weather there. Working conditions can get much hotter depending on the building itself, manufacturing processes, the safety gear you might have to wear etc.

_________________
SD&DG Illustrated! Behance Bleep Bloop

'Not without talent but dragged down by bass turgidity'


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 13:33 
Filthy Junkie Bitch

Joined: 17th Dec, 2008
Posts: 8293
The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
That's fucking daft though, you can always wrap up warmer, it's much harder to keep cool.

It rarely gets above 30 degrees C here though. It's much more likely to be -10. Which is more dangerous? If it regularly got to 40-45 degrees here then you'd have a point, I guess.

Aye. 30 degrees is annoying, not dangerous.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 13:38 
SupaMod
User avatar
Commander-in-Cheese

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49244
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
Aye. 30 degrees is annoying, not dangerous.


Same applies to 15 degrees, though.

_________________
GoddessJasmine wrote:
Drunk, pulled Craster's pork, waiting for brdyime story,reading nuts. Xz


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Employment woes
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 13:38 
User avatar
Hibernating Druid

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 49358
Location: Standing on your mother's Porsche
ApplePieOfDestiny wrote:
The Last Salmon Man wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
That's fucking daft though, you can always wrap up warmer, it's much harder to keep cool.

It rarely gets above 30 degrees C here though. It's much more likely to be -10. Which is more dangerous? If it regularly got to 40-45 degrees here then you'd have a point, I guess.

Aye. 30 degrees is annoying, not dangerous.

Zardoz wrote:
You're talking about the weather there. Working conditions can get much hotter depending on the building itself, manufacturing processes, the safety gear you might have to wear etc.

_________________
SD&DG Illustrated! Behance Bleep Bloop

'Not without talent but dragged down by bass turgidity'


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Columbo, Warhead and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search within this thread:
You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
Want to help out with the hosting / advertising costs? That's very nice of you.
Are you on a mobile phone? Try http://beex.co.uk/m/
RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC. RIP, Dimmers.

Powered by a very Grim... version of phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.