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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:53 
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Malabelm wrote:
Certainly the case with helmets, yeah. They crumple internally to decelerate your head as safely as possible upon impact, and they don’t return to their original shape. One-time use, but worth every penny.

Tell that to my Mum. Bought me a bike for my 13th birthday and a cycle helmet too.

A week later, foolishly tried to jump up a kerb from a narrow angle and stuffed it up, went over the handlebars and hit the ground helmet-first. Almost certainly saved me from a pretty serious head injury.

Walked home sheepishly, still aching a bit from the crash, walked in the door and showed Mum my helmet.

"That was £30! I'm not buying you another one!"


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:58 
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GazChap wrote:
Malabelm wrote:
Certainly the case with helmets, yeah. They crumple internally to decelerate your head as safely as possible upon impact, and they don’t return to their original shape. One-time use, but worth every penny.

Tell that to my Mum. Bought me a bike for my 13th birthday and a cycle helmet too.

A week later, foolishly tried to jump up a kerb from a narrow angle and stuffed it up, went over the handlebars and hit the ground helmet-first. Almost certainly saved me from a pretty serious head injury.

Walked home sheepishly, still aching a bit from the crash, walked in the door and showed Mum my helmet.

"That was £30! I'm not buying you another one!"


I'll go as far as saying you have a serious head, but 'pretty' is pushing it.

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 Post subject: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:07 
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GazChap wrote:
Malabelm wrote:
Certainly the case with helmets, yeah. They crumple internally to decelerate your head as safely as possible upon impact, and they don’t return to their original shape. One-time use, but worth every penny.

Tell that to my Mum. Bought me a bike for my 13th birthday and a cycle helmet too.

A week later, foolishly tried to jump up a kerb from a narrow angle and stuffed it up, went over the handlebars and hit the ground helmet-first. Almost certainly saved me from a pretty serious head injury.

Walked home sheepishly, still aching a bit from the crash, walked in the door and showed Mum my helmet.

"That was £30! I'm not buying you another one!"


Hah! Brilliant. The helmet I lost in my crash was £400, almost certainly saved my life, and I don’t begrudge ‘losing’ that money in the slightest.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:52 
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For anyone that was wondering about this.

Quote:
Thank you for you recent contact with Hertz.

I am writing to inform you that the above invoice has been cancelled and a
refund of the charge for damage made to you. The total amount refunded is
301.00 GBP and you may expect to see this refund shortly on your credit
card statement.

A cheerful 'fuck you' to those who originally mocked my resolve in getting my money back.

They go on to say how it was all a terrible mistake and they apologise for making it, yada yada bullshit bollocks.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:13 
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Nice one. But I don't think anyone said that you shouldn't try and get your money back, just that if they said no that you probably wouldn't have a leg to stand on.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:20 
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That was always arguable, and I certainly didn't think so. Challenging Hertz to provide evidence about the extent of the damage was sufficient for them to admit they didn't have a leg to stand on.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:22 
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Next time drive more carefully, then you won't need to claim it back.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:24 
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Or at least drive with the radio on full and the windows open so they don't hear the bumps.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:25 
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myp wrote:
Next time drive more carefully, then you won't need to claim it back.

I've never had an accident or made a claim on insurance. Tapping a post at 2mph when reversing doesn't count. Thanks though, I'll make sure that I take out the full insurance the next time I plan to do this.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:25 
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:DD

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:27 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
I've never had an accident or made a claim on insurance. Tapping


<ring ring, ring ring>

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:30 
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I don't believe in in fate, or god, and I know that joking about something, such as coming down with a fatal kind of cancer, doesn't increase my chances of getting such a disease. Cancer me up, God, if you're listening, you incompetent moron. :metul:

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:37 
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I don't believe in fate at the moment either, but I know I will in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:42 
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It would be lol-tastic if I did now die from cancer, but it would be entirely coincidental. I can't fathom the people that think otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:44 
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Or if you died from thousands of hire cars slightly bruising you.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:48 
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:DD

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:49 
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ugvm'er at heart...

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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
It would be lol-tastic if I did now die from cancer, but it would be entirely coincidental. I can't fathom the people that think otherwise.


You probably will die from cancer, it's the biggest cause of death in the UK.

Cheery thought for a Friday afternoon!


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:52 
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Trooper wrote:
it's the biggest cause of death in the UK.

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/14/mortality-statistics-causes-death-england-wales-2009#]
No it isn't[/url].

-edit- no idea why that url tag isn't working. :(

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... ales-2009#

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:55 
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Trooper wrote:
ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
It would be lol-tastic if I did now die from cancer, but it would be entirely coincidental. I can't fathom the people that think otherwise.


You probably will die from cancer, it's the biggest cause of death in the UK.


Nah - heart disease, isn't it?

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:59 
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Locusts.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 13:00 
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In Scotland you're at a high chance of dying from everything, not least of all being knifed by a Glaswegian.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 13:15 
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myp wrote:
Trooper wrote:
it's the biggest cause of death in the UK.

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/14/mortality-statistics-causes-death-england-wales-2009#]
No it isn't[/url].

-edit- no idea why that url tag isn't working. :(

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... ales-2009#


Weird

http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer ... emp#Cancer

This completely contradicts that. I wonder which is correct?


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 13:20 
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It's just the way they are grouped. The cancer research chart shows all cancers grouped together and circulatory diseases split into different conditions.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 13:24 
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markg wrote:
It's just the way they are grouped. The cancer research chart shows all cancers grouped together and circulatory diseases split into different conditions.


Sure, that's what I thought, but adding the circulatory diseases on the CR chart together still doesn't get it anywhere close to the cancer figure, let alone pass it?


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 13:30 
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I think it does. I've only added the figures for men but if you add CHD, strokes, other heart disease, and vascular diseases it comes to 85440.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 13:33 
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The UK's biggest killer is dogs. Evil things, with their cold, dead eyes...


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 13:42 
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I thought it was reavers.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 13:44 
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markg wrote:
I think it does. I've only added the figures for men but if you add CHD, strokes, other heart disease, and vascular diseases it comes to 85440.


On the CR chart, I can't find the source data to add anything up that precisely?

And I wouldn't put strokes in as heart disease.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 13:52 
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If you roll over each bar it gives you the figures. Strokes obviously aren't heart disease but they are circulatory which is how the Guardian's chart groups them.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 14:05 
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markg wrote:
If you roll over each bar it gives you the figures.


Ah, so it does :)

markg wrote:
Strokes obviously aren't heart disease but they are circulatory which is how the Guardian's chart groups them.


Indeed. The Guardian chart isn't showing that heart disease is the biggest killer, it is showing that all circulatory diseases combined put that above cancer. Which if we are doing that, then I would put a combined measure of "stopped breathing" as above everything ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 14:12 
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My manager's car caught fire last night at 2am. Fire people said it was possibly due to an electrical fault. It'd be fine, only the car parked next to, which it was his wife's, also went up in flames as a result.

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 Post subject: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 19:36 
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baron of techno

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Collateral damage is a bitch - send her some flowers.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 19:47 
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Locusts.

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 Post subject: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 20:05 
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ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:
myp wrote:
Next time drive more carefully, then you won't need to claim it back.

I've never had an accident or made a claim on insurance. Tapping a post at 2mph when reversing doesn't count. Thanks though, I'll make sure that I take out the full insurance the next time I plan to do this.


I had to drive to Newcastle and back today in a hire car - a company arranged, excess waiver paid Kia. It was super fast and had 6 gears. I managed to get it clear of the ground on some crests on the A68 and properly sideways on the twisty bits after switching the ESP off.

What were those statistics again?


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:32 
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kalmar wrote:
I had to drive to Newcastle and back today in a hire car - a company arranged, excess waiver paid Kia. It was super fast


Fuck me mate, "super fast"...? What have you been driving the rest of the time? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:42 
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Some interesting stuff here about the best and worst performing car marques, in terms of their first MoT pass rates (3 years from new obv.)

Yet again, French manufacturers come out by far the worst; Jap stuff by far the best.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:49 
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"By far"? Do numbers mean different things to you than they do to me?
Interesting to see that Fords have the best pass rate near Dagenham - I can't really see why that would be the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:53 
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Grim... wrote:
"By far"? Do numbers mean different things to you than they do to me?
Interesting to see that Fords have the best pass rate near Dagenham - I can't really see why that would be the case.


Dagenham Motors, innit?

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:56 
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Meganes will fail on bulbs because of the front ones being impossible to get at and the dealers charging 170 to replace one. Who'd bother until they had to?


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:56 
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Yeah, and?

[edit] @ Curio

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:00 
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twingo has an 84% pass rate, 20% better at passing mots than other cars of the same year. God Renault are shit.

Stats are fun!


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 Post subject: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:49 
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Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
"By far"? Do numbers mean different things to you than they do to me?
Interesting to see that Fords have the best pass rate near Dagenham - I can't really see why that would be the case.


Dagenham Motors, innit?


It helps illustrate that these statistics have little or nothing to do with the actual car design or build quality. Dagenham local ford owners will be 'proud' - possibly employees, so look after their cars better.

Small cheap French cars will be a second car used by the 'missus', and generalisation says things like bulbs won't get spotted or rectified.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:25 
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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 13:07 
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Grim... wrote:
"By far"? Do numbers mean different things to you than they do to me?


Well, this is what the piece that I linked to had to say about it:

Quote:
Looking at more recent MoT test results, it's perhaps no surprise that the manufacturer with the worst pass rate for cars registered in 2008 is French company Renault.

In fact, French cars resoundingly live up to their stereotype, taking three of the top five spots for most failed first MoT tests.

Almost three in ten Renault Méganes and Citroen C4s failed their first MOT - three times the number of failures notched up by the best performing car, the Suzuki Splash.


But anyway, here's the breakdown (no pun intended):

http://good-garage-guide.honestjohn.co.uk/mot/2008

A Suzuki, Lexus, Honda or Toyota (very diverse vehicle types and prices) typically passes its first MoT 90% of the time, so for all of these Jap marques, only one car in ten fails, obv.

Now, your average Fiat, Peugeot, Renault or Citroen only manages a 70% first time pass rate (sometimes even worse), so that's three cars in ten failing - three times as many (200% increase), even after only three years from new.

So yeah, I feel quite comfortable with "by far". Besides, this study of some 24 million vehicles is only telling us - or at least strongly inferring - what we already know from countless other reliability surveys from Which, JD Power and innumerable car mags over recent years.

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 13:09 
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kalmar wrote:
Curiosity wrote:
Grim... wrote:
"By far"? Do numbers mean different things to you than they do to me?
Interesting to see that Fords have the best pass rate near Dagenham - I can't really see why that would be the case.


Dagenham Motors, innit?


It helps illustrate that these statistics have little or nothing to do with the actual car design or build quality. Dagenham local ford owners will be 'proud' - possibly employees, so look after their cars better.


No, it only illustrates that whilst there may well be localised anomalies like this, these are most certainly evened out when you've a massive data set of 24 million cars. By way of example, it's not as though Ford comes out of this very well, despite this 'Dagenham effect'

Quote:
Small cheap French cars will be a second car used by the 'missus', and generalisation says things like bulbs won't get spotted or rectified.


Even if that were true (and I don't think for a minute it is btw), how come equally small, equally cheap, equally common Jap cars (not least the Suzuki Splash, Nissan Micra, Mazda 3 etc.) come out so much better...? These too, according to your theory, would be "cars for the missus" (and presumably women are incapable of spotting or changing a bulb anyway ;) Don't mention this to Mrs Caveman or the Teen Angels if I were you mate lol).

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 13:12 
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metalangel wrote:


Gutted. What an absolute Legend. :(

RIP man; thanks for the AC Cobra. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 14:04 
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Captain Caveman wrote:
Quote:
Small cheap French cars will be a second car used by the 'missus', and generalisation says things like bulbs won't get spotted or rectified.


Even if that were true (and I don't think for a minute it is btw), how come equally small, equally cheap, equally common Jap cars (not least the Suzuki Splash, Nissan Micra, Mazda 3 etc.) come out so much better...? These too, according to your theory, would be "cars for the missus" (and presumably women are incapable of spotting or changing a bulb anyway ;) Don't mention this to Mrs Caveman or the Teen Angels if I were you mate lol).


Hah, I said it was a generalisation!
Could make another about the Suzuki, which strikes me as a retiree's car, which are normally low milage and well looked after.

Regardless of whether you agree with the results or not, I just think it's a very vague metric. I mean, at the first MOT you'll have fails that are either basically the user's fault, or normal wear items like brakes. What does that tell you about the reliability of the car? Not an awful lot.

Perhaps it's more a measure of the dealership, also. Nissan, Honda etc all have dedicated dealerships don't they? With some incentive to keep the customer happy with that make. Whereas French cars are sold through dodgy multi-brand franchises like A***** C*****, who are going to be mainly out to gouge you at the first MOT.


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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 14:34 
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kalmar wrote:
Captain Caveman wrote:
Quote:
Small cheap French cars will be a second car used by the 'missus', and generalisation says things like bulbs won't get spotted or rectified.


Even if that were true (and I don't think for a minute it is btw), how come equally small, equally cheap, equally common Jap cars (not least the Suzuki Splash, Nissan Micra, Mazda 3 etc.) come out so much better...? These too, according to your theory, would be "cars for the missus" (and presumably women are incapable of spotting or changing a bulb anyway ;) Don't mention this to Mrs Caveman or the Teen Angels if I were you mate lol).


Hah, I said it was a generalisation!
Could make another about the Suzuki, which strikes me as a retiree's car, which are normally low milage and well looked after.


Yes, I appreciate it was a generalisation. I'm not suggesting that you thought every small French car was driven by someone's wife and/or that all women can't spot, less still change, a blown light bulb.

I just don't think it holds water, even as a generalisation, not least for the reasons I identify: the propensity of equally small, equally cheap Jap cars for being far, far less likely to fail their first MoT for one thing, even if we accept that most of these cars are "for the missus", which I certainly don't anyway.

Quote:
Regardless of whether you agree with the results or not, I just think it's a very vague metric. I mean, at the first MOT you'll have fails that are either basically the user's fault, or normal wear items like brakes.


Partly, yes, but not wholly, as that Honest John piece makes clear. There are plenty of manufacturer-derived defects and reduced longevity/quality issues that can also lead to MoT failure, too.

Quote:
What does that tell you about the reliability of the car? Not an awful lot.


Well, it probably does tell us something about the reliability of the car; we can all agree that a huge bunch of cars that fail their MoT, as compared to another huge bunch of cars (the same age) that all pass, is likely to be less reliable statistically?

But actually, I believe it does tell us something about the mean *quality* of these cars.

Quote:
Perhaps it's more a measure of the dealership, also. Nissan, Honda etc all have dedicated dealerships don't they? With some incentive to keep the customer happy with that make. Whereas French cars are sold through dodgy multi-brand franchises like A***** C*****, who are going to be mainly out to gouge you at the first MOT.


Eh? There are loads of Renault, Citroen and Pug main dealerships!

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 15:00 
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Captain Caveman wrote:
But anyway, here's the breakdown (no pun intended):

http://good-garage-guide.honestjohn.co.uk/mot/2008

Hahaha there are Land Rovers in the top half!

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 Post subject: Re: Gas Guzzling Money Pits
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 15:02 
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Grim... wrote:
Captain Caveman wrote:
But anyway, here's the breakdown (no pun intended):

http://good-garage-guide.honestjohn.co.uk/mot/2008

Hahaha there are Land Rovers in the top half!


Well done mate, perhaps they are really improving their quality now. :)

Porsche didn't do very well though!

EDIT my bad, yes they did. :D

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