Be Excellent To Each Other

After myp said "Buy my iPad, £200" and I stupidly mentioned it to MrsA, we've had a brilliantly uninformed debate over what we want from a tablet thing which will spend most of its life sat on a coffee table in the living room, or taken on trains and stuff. The primary requirements are twitter, web browsing, email and watching moving pictures. So, it'll be wifi, have enough space on it to have two battery life's worth of viewing time of moving pictures and capability to purchase said stuff and have it on to it fairly easily. As Kern is currently over in the colonies, this is a tempting time to wire him the money and say "Get this, or two of these!" as I'm sure he wouldn't mind.

In the interim period, if you had £200 to spend on something that does all of that, and you're happy with 2 year old tech like what I am, as I'm cheap at heart, and cheaper in the bedroom, what would you do? I really want a kindle fire, but as I didn't understand what Grim... meant by 'side loading' I think that's out of the water. The register had this article which seemed to fit my requirements nicely, but I really don't have much of a clue.

So, BeeX challenge!

£200
Tablet that will let me watch 3 hours worth of film in one go (battery life)
Twitter, facebook, internet stuffs, email
Easy to use so I can work it, I don't give a shit about jailbreaking or stuff like that. It's beyond me.
Can survive a fall from a coffee table onto a rug/red wine/beer

Thanks!

Second-hand iPad 1. Good enough for video. Decent for Twitter/Facebook/web/email. Piss-easy to work. Reasonably robust when falling on to a carpet, depending on angle of descent.

Or you could go Android, but in most cases the screens will be worse, as will the build quality, battery life and selection of apps.

At £200, you could even go second hand ipad 2.

The only problem I see is that if you don't want to get your moving pictures off itunes, then there will be some work needed to convert them and get them into the device. It's easy, but if sideloading on the kindle fire puts you off, then it's essentially the same procedure for an apple device.

Your only real choice if you want to just drop a file onto the tablet from your pc, is an android tablet, but that is a minefield of varying quality and prices that I will leave others to navigate for you

I can do some technical stuff, I prefer, however, not to. In a perfect world, I'd get a Kindle Fire, but don't know what 'side loading' means.

It's like side talking

Your turn it on its side and tip the videos in through the memory spout.

For the specific uses you mention either an Android device or an iPad would work equally well; with the possibly slight advantage on the Android side of having Flash in the browser (although only you can say whether that's even a factor for you). At that price point though, and if you'd be buying from someone you trust rather than an internet random, the iPad is probably your best bet because (a) it'll do everything an Android tablet would do but comes with the advantage of a better library of games and whatnot and (b) as you're already running an iPod you're presumably experienced with and happy to use iTunes. I only mention that because it's a deal-breaker for some people and you don't need it, or anything like it, to use an Android tablet.

The only question mark to me is around what Trooper already mentioned: how are you sourcing your video files? If you're totally 100% going to always buy them specifically for watching on the thing then an iPad is your best bet because iTunes has probably the best selection out there and the integration with the iPad will be easy obviously. If, however, you're intending to download videos from any other source then an Android device might be better because you can just load it up with video files you've got from anywhere else and off you go.

Also, 'sideload' in this context essentially means 'copy stuff manually from your PC to the tablet'; it's a trivial process so stop obsessing over it.

I've sideloaded all your mums

MrsA wants to watch Gray's Anatomy on the train, basically. Thanks so far, I am beginning to understand.

Tell her, "No you watch it at home like everyone else."

Will she also want to use the internet on the train? I wasn't too fussed about my tablet being wifi-only but switching my phone to a hotspot means I can share my 3G connection on that if needed.

For watching lengthy TV series' I can't imagine buying them from iTunes is a cost effective way to go about it at £2.49 an episode (so about £60 a season!). If you want to do it legally you'd be better off buying DVD box sets and then ripping them to video files and copying them over to whatever device you go with. This isn't something I ever do myself but I'm sure other people can advise on how complex an operation it is.

Edit: Heh, I've just checked and for the £60 iTunes would charge you for a single season of Grey's Anatomy, Amazon will sell you a box set of the entire first six seasons. Holy shit, I knew that prices for these online services were ridiculous but I'd never really run the maths on it.

http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/28079414 ... adtype=pla

Sorted.

Spend the other £150 on some pints of bitter.

I'd say either an Android tablet or a iPad 1 (or 2, if you can get one for the money) would be a fine choice. Here are some points:
1) Don't buy a Fire. They're brilliant for the money, but until they're released in this country pretty nerfed. Gread for video, though.
2) I'd be a little wary of the iPad 1's age - with all the shiny plugged into the "New iPad" you might find games and such stop being compatible
3) You'll need a case for whatever you get
4) An Android advantage that no-one has mentioned yet is the fact that (with the right plaything, like Mobo Player) they can play practically any video format, just like your PC. The iPad is restricted to certain video types, which you'll have to convert yourself with something like Handbrake on your PC
5) iPad's are generally easier to use, but for the things you're looking for I don't think you'll have problems either way
6) If you don't both have a phone you can turn into a WiFi hotspot, get one with a built-in wireless connection
7) iTunes
8) "Google Play"

For reference, this is the one I've just ordered.

Buy my iPad - £200.

It's pretty easy, although I've heard that not doing it legally is even easier still.

Android 2.3?

I thought 3 was the one designed for tablets. (although the iPad has no such distinction, what with being a giant iPhone and the like)

I don't expect it to stay stock long in my dirty tinkering hands, man. But yeah, 2.3.

Can a 2.3 device even run 3? Is that Ice Cream Sandwich, when does Bourbon Biscuit get released and will that work on all Android devices?

These sorts of questions are why I'm happy to go the iPad route...

3 is Honeycomb, 4 is ICS.

Excellent.

She watches it online. I don't know how, but it keeps her quiet for a bit. until she ends up crying over it.

If you can stretch another £100, you can find 2nd hand EeePad transformers (not a prime tho), which have the keyboard for easy typing (which also contains a second battery for many hours using time)
Kind of like a tablet PC but then flick the switch & detach the screen to have an android pad.
I am biased cos I have a Prime, and it is many levels of awesome

You shouldn't be finding ways to make it easier for her to watch Gray's Anatomy. You're enabling her.

There isn't really such a thing as a "2.3 device", any device will run whatever version of Android that the manufacturer has released for it. What I think you're really talking about is that the UI of Android 3 (i.e. Honeycomb) was designed specifically for devices with a tablet form factor so you'll only see that running on tablets because no one would bother putting it on a phone sized device. It's not exclusive though, you'll also see tablets happily running 2.x without any issues (aside from an arguably less optimal UI).

Honeycomb was really just a bridge for Android, a sort of temporary bodge by an unprepared Google, until they could get Ice Cream Sandwich out which is intended to give a good user experience regardless of form factor. Now it's out in the world there should be no need for further branching.

It's not something you as an end user need to worry about though because you only get the OS that the manufactures give you; it's not like you actually need to make a choice between the various versions and worry about whether you've somehow got it wrong or whatever. As with older Apple devices simply not being allowed to upgrade to later versions of the OS, you'll never be offered an upgrade if the manufacture don't think it'll work. Or, admittely more likely, if they just can't be arsed!

Worst Chinese menu ever.

As long as Mali is comfortable converting his videos (and it's not hard, it just takes a long time for the PC to do the converting), this is a good option.

Unless you get the right player for the iPad. There are tons of video player apps, including Tap! favourite AVPlayer, which will play XVID, AVI, WMV, RMVB, ASF, H264 and MKV. It also has USB and Wi-Fi transfer. The only issue you'll have is extremely high-quality vids probably being too much for the iPad's (relatively, compared to PCs and Macs) weak processor, but Android tablets have similar issues.


There is that, however. Still, I happily ignore iTunes for the most part these days, when it comes to device stuff. (I still use it as a jukebox, but that's largely because the Mac version is merely mediocre and not utterly appallingly crap.)

I genuinely didn't realise you could get such apps in iOS, I thought you were totally locked to the Apple endorsed file formats. Every day's a school day.

How does it work in terms of transferring and playing the files? I ask because my other possible misconception here was that you could only transfer very specific file formats via USB so is that just not true or does this app somehow work round that restriction? And does it just dump your video files on the file system for browsing (which, again, I didn't think was allowed) or are they made available via that app somehow or what?

Apps can transfer any files they want through direct downloads or iTunes sync (wired or wifi). Apps that support file transfer get a little UI for it in iTunes. They can do whatever they want with these files, including play them back if they are AV files. The files are locked to that app, however. They can't be accessed by any other app and the app itself has to take care of managing them -- there's no OS-wide facility.

Writing apps to work with arbitrary AV codecs with no OS support isn't trivial, but it's doable, and there are a few programs that do it.

Imagine if you had a PC with no codecs at all, so Windows Media Player will only play WMVs. You install VLC, which uses internal codecs, so can play anything (but WMP can still only play WMVs because the codecs aren't in the OS, they're just in VLC). You have the ability to copy media files into VLC and play them within it, but nothing else in the OS can see those files. That's iOS.

So, what, you'd plug your iPad into your PC with iTunes running and select the AVPlayer app somehow in iTunes on the PC which would then allow you to select and push files (in whatever format AVPlayer handles) from the file system on your PC over to the iPad? Then you disconnect the iPad, launch AVPlayer and it'll allow you to browse through the files you've just pushed over?

Not convinced that's a massive problem, though.

It's easy if you try

Excatly that.

VLC was even on the App Store for a while, before Apple was forced to pull it due to one of the contributors having a massive hissy fit about Apple being evil and closed. Luckily, many other apps have filled the gap now (and, frankly, are better than VLC for iOS was).


USB is via horrible iTunes File Sharing. You select your device in the iTunes sidebar, click Apps, scroll down a bit, select the app in File Sharing, and then drag across the documents you want to transfer. Wi-Fi is browser-based file transfer, as per this YouTube video. A bit clunky, but simple enough, and quite a few iOS apps work this way.

Note though that if you've a reasonable PC/Mac and a decent home Wi-Fi network, I'd strongly recommend streamtome or Air Video for watching video on iOS devices. These convert video on-the-fly and fire it to your device over the air, meaning you needn't bother converting anything nor transferring it. Obviously, this isn't much cop when on the train (although Air Video does have a 'fire to the internet' option), but for home use, it beats faffing about.

EDIT: Some interface pics of non-playback bits of AVPlayer

The only time I can see this being problematic is in the scenario where whatever video player you've got doesn't handle 100% of the files you throw at it e.g. it plays some AVI files but chokes on other ones. On any 'normal' OS you could install multiple video playing apps then just dump the file on the filesystem and work through your video players until you found one that handled it without having to actually copy the video file over multiple times. That's a pretty specific scenario though obviously and as long as you're dealing in relatively standardly formatted video files so you've got none/few compatibility issues with your chosen player app then it wouldn't even be a factor. I've never used any of my phones to watch video though so I've no idea what the success rate is with, say, torrented TV eps or whatever.

I use VLC on the iPad - confusingly it isn't able to play all formats, but relies on a 'server' on your PC to do the conversion as it's streaming.

Although this sounds clunky, it does work reasonably well and is good if you have a large amount of videos on the host, you can search and browse for them on the iPad. It also avoids transferring files in their native format which might not work or might be taking far more space than they need.

OTOH if you are just dealing with a few files it's as easy to drop them onto VisualHub or something to do the conversion and put them into iTunes for you, so it'll sync to all your devices. It's a bit cleaner.

I knew you could get other video playing apps (I did read at the time about all the VLC drama) but it was the actual types of file you could transfer over to playback that I thought was totally restricted. I suspect my assumption is based on reading about the Camera Connection Kit which seems only to allow the transer of selected file types. I didn't realise you could do app-specific file transfers from within iTunes so thought the restricted formats the Camera Connection Kit allowed were literally the only stuff you could load onto the thing. Which is total bollocks as it transpires.



Having to use iTunes is a pain of course but, that aside, this doesn't sound like too much of a hassle. I suppose it's the only way to ensure that the transferred files are locked to a specific app. Obviously you could have a conversation to be had about whether you should lock them to a given app at all but if you're going to do it then this is as good a method as any.

Anyway, thanks to you and the Doc for clarifying; it's useful stuff to know.

The wi-fi method is typically easiest, I find. The app runs a web server on the device that's accessible via webDAV, and you can just map it then drag and drop files straight to it on your PC.

Transferring files from my desktop PC to a wireless device on my home network's so fucking painful (transfer speeds of about 800kB/s) that anything other than that would be better. That's a separate thread that I keep meaning to start for advice though!

I'll be moving over to AVplayer with the new ipad I think. I have airvideo which works fine for the home, but for videos on the train I handbrake convert all my HD files to mp4, as without doing that on the ipad 1, HD content is just a no-go due to the lack of processing power. Annoying but necessary, if I can get rid of that, i'll be more than happy

Hopefully that will no longer be an issue on the iPad 3 and I can just drop a 1080p mkv into AVplayer and it "just works"

The UI is a bit rubbish, and it's worth noting that apps have to specifically say they're happy to file-share, otherwise they won't. (You can still sideload using the likes of PhoneView and iExplorer, however.) But for video players, that's always the case, due to the devs not being idiots.


It's just slow and clunky iTunes. But in terms of what you're actually doing, it's not a million miles away from Finder or Windows Explorer—you find the folder (app) you want to dump stuff in and drag files to it.


Well, iOS has no open file system—every app is sandboxed, with its own Documents folder. You can share stuff between apps to some (very small) extent, but that's just the way it is. I must admit that I've had little problem with this to date, and for those times where I've found it too limiting, Dropbox has come to the rescue as a more open storage for things like work files I use in Scrivener, WriteRoom, iA Writer and other apps.


I'll be very interested to see how things play out with the new iPad. There's so much disagreement among devs I know about the relative power of the devices, not least from a graphics standpoint. Some thing the new iPad somehow manages to seriously best the old one, while others reckon for graphics it'll only be half as fast. I can't imagine Apple would have released a dog though, even in order to get a shiny Retina display out the door.

General consensus: buy my iPad.

So that's a "massive hissy fit" but Apple's patent disputes against Samsung are justified IP protection, I expect?

So if you've got, for instance, a video playing app you can sideload files directly to it's 'documents' folder on your portable device from your desktop machine and then those files will be playable from within the app rather than having to do the same file transfer via iTunes? Or do you mean something else here?

I hate patent disputes, so I'm not exactly a massive fan of Apple smashing Samsung smashing Apple smashing HTC smashing Apple smashing (etc.) However, are you arguing that Denis-Courmont's having the VLC app pulled is the same as Apple suing Samsung for ripping off its UI, boxes, kit, etc.? Maybe there was more to the story, but my understanding is that VideoLAN was perfectly happy with VLC for iOS, and essentially that one guy had the app pulled because the App Store terms weren't compatible with the GNU GPL. EDIT: And I seem to remember that kicked off an arguing between devs I know about interpretation of the GNU GPL, with some siding with Denis-Courmont and others not so much.


It depends on the app (most notably if it places things in specific locations), but in many cases, yes, you can just use iExplorer of PhoneView to shove documents into the Documents folder. This is how, for example, iMAME works. But I've also used this for backing-up and restoring projects to the likes of NanoStudio.

I'll accept it as payment for your poster/flyer and business card if that helps.