PayPal

Zardoz · **Posted:** Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:43

Hnnnngh

PayPal have decided to hold my money for no specific reason. So now I have just over £50 in my account that I can't do a fucking thing with for 21 days. I have 100% positive feedback for fucks sake.

Anyone else had this? Can you still use your held cash on eBay purchases at all?

Mr Russell · **Joined:** 6th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 12329

Bad luck. I normally empty mine out ASAP, and keep unlinking my account so I can't get charge-backed.

devilman · **Posted:** Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:54

Don't they place your account on hold while they request a bit of extra ID? Have you had no indication from Paypal as to what's wrong?

Zardoz · **Posted:** Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:59

No, just listed a few things it could be on their site:

Quote:

As part of our ongoing effort to make PayPal an even safer place for you and your customers to do business, we are going to place a Payment Hold on your daily sales. Why?

We’ll set aside payments to sellers whose customers have filed a dispute or chargeback. There are a number of other reasons why we may put your payments into a pending balance. Here are some examples:

You have been selling on eBay for less than 90 days
You have an eBay feedback score fewer than 100 and have not yet established a record of good performance
You have received fewer than 20 Detatiled Seller Ratings on eBay in the last 12 months or your eBay seller performance is below standard
You have a high rate of customer disputes or a low eBay feedback percentage
You have been a PayPal member for less than 6 months and have limited selling activity
You have a sudden change in selling activities (e.g. suddenly selling expensive items, selling large numbers of items, etc.)
You happen to be selling in a high risk category such as tickets, travel, gift vouchers, computers, electronics, mobile phones, etc.

Depending on the circumstances, we may set aside payments for a single transaction or for all payments to sellers who meet the criteria above.

WTB · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 14497

That's that settled, then. Time to withdraw my balance!

zaphod79 · **Joined:** 16th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 14512

I always draw mine out pretty much straight away - and i've had the same email as yours Zardoz about a year ago and it was a 'mistake' - if there was a link on their to complain follow it - they sorted mine out within a day or two but during that time you can still get new payments in but cant use the money in there or start the withdrawal process so if you need that money you are stuffed :-(

Ebay can be evil at times although its often the other people that make it so - Paypal *is* evil

Alberto · **Joined:** 28th Jan, 2011 **Posts:** 1198

WTB wrote:

That's that settled, then. Time to withdraw my balance!

This is why I had to sellotape pound coins to a piece of card and mail them to you to buy those games, see? SEE?

gospvg · **Joined:** 7th Nov, 2008 **Posts:** 2306

Zardoz wrote:

Hnnnngh

PayPal have decided to hold my money for no specific reason. So now I have just over £50 in my account that I can't do a fucking thing with for 21 days. I have 100% positive feedback for fucks sake.

Anyone else had this? Can you still use your held cash on eBay purchases at all?

A long long time ago yes, they wanted some extra information on a transaction for an expensive mobile I sold. I phoned them up & it was all sorted within hours.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Fri Aug 19, 2011 16:19

Quote:

Calls to the above number are charged at £1.53 per minute plus network extras.

Fuck. That.

Alberto · **Joined:** 28th Jan, 2011 **Posts:** 1198

SEE?!??!!?!!!?!!

Zardoz · **Posted:** Fri Aug 19, 2011 20:58

Just had an email saying the money is released.

Still arseholes though.

Four_Candles · **Joined:** 27th Sep, 2009 **Posts:** 876

Zardoz wrote:

Quote:

Calls to the above number are charged at £1.53 per minute plus network extras.

Fuck. That.

Just for future reference, there's an easy workaround for that, go here:

http://www.saynoto0870.com/search.php

and search for Paypal.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Sat Aug 20, 2011 18:17

Thanks for that.

PayPal only released 6 quid (1 transaction) from the 50 I'm owed. >:(

Four_Candles · **Joined:** 27th Sep, 2009 **Posts:** 876

Cunts.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:31

PayPal tell buyer to destroy antique violin to get their money back:
http://www.regretsy.com/2012/01/03/from-the-mailbag-27/

TheVision · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:43

I've just read about this. They asked him to destroy so clearly both Paypal and the guy who destroyed it are idiots.

But what's the alternative to Paypal? Do they really care about bad news stories like this when they make so much money of people with little to no competition?

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 25883

I was just about to post this story. I understand that the action of destroying goods disputed as counterfeit is in their ToS, but how on earth do they go about deciding that an antique isn't what it says it is without even seeing it? Based only on the opinion of the buyer?

Derek The Halls · **Joined:** 31st Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 3742

It's a bit like with Amazon. If they buyer claims something, they're right no matter what.

Trooper · **Joined:** 4th Mar, 2010 **Posts:** 22368

Fucking paypal.
If it wasn't so convenient I wouldn't use it...

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

According to one journo I know who's clued up on such things, this is criminal damage. The person who destroyed the item can be sued. Difficult across borders, but actionable. And if PayPal really said to do this, they are idiots. (Another guy I know has put in a request to PayPal PR, so it'll be interesting to see if/how the company replies.)

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

The thing that reduced my ebay usage to almost zero is the non-optional requirement to accept Paypal as a payment method 'for your safety and security'. What a load of fucking shit.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

See also: Paypal block donations to Red Cross for Hurricane Catrina relief. I've heard so many horror stories about their random decisions and their seeming utter lack of accountability that I would never push funds through a PayPal account ever. Not just because of fear of this kind of random bullshit but also because I just don't want to reward them for their approach to business if I can possibly avoid it.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 13:09

Then you wouldn't get funds.
PayPal is a lot like Amazon - there are horror stories aplenty, but that's because everyone uses it. For ever "ZOMG" moment, I'd imagine there are tens of millions of payments sailing through exactly as intended.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49237

As someone who doesn't ever sell stuff, Paypal is the most convenient thing in the known universe.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Grim... wrote:

Then you wouldn't get funds.

As someone not running any kind of business I have the luxury of not worrying about 'getting funds' as no one's offering me money via any method.

Grim... wrote:

PayPal is a lot like Amazon - there are horror stories aplenty, but that's because everyone uses it. For ever "ZOMG" moment, I'd imagine there are tens of millions of payments sailing through exactly as intended.

Which is fine in and of itself, but having dealt with Amazon customer service when things have gone wrong they were both (a) easily available and (b) eager to help; which is as it should be. Looking even at Zardoz' single example here they've locked away his money for no clearly commuinicated reason and for an arbitrary 21 day period. Oh, or you could phone us to negotiate a decision we made unilaterally and you'll only pay £1.50 a minute for the privilege! Actually, no, it's fine, we'll release your money. Ha, only joking; here's a token £6 out of what we owe you. Your move, bitch.

Are we really defending this?

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 13:29

Again, I'd imagine it's the sheer volume of the thing. Z's account was locked because an algorithm said it should be. They need to be in place, or PayPal would be (and - I imagine - is) a money launderer's dream come true.
A human would have gotten around to looking at it and (I'm guessing, I can't remember) said "no problem here, gov", ticked a box and badabing, there's your money.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but I can completely understand why it has to be that way.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

I do use Paypal for all my money received. In the main I haven't had a problem although a couple of times some impatient arsehole has raised a Paypal dispute because they haven't received their £3 t-shirt yet, despite it still being within the advertised shipping times.

My response to these claims is invariably:

1) Why didn't you email me instead of filing a paypal dispute?
2) Since you now technically have not paid for the t-shirt, I'm not going to send it, am I?

If you post anything, send it recorded. It's the only thin defense against 'not received' claims.

myp · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 13:37

Craster wrote:

As someone who doesn't ever sell stuff, Paypal is the most convenient thing in the known universe.

Indeed. I would hate to be a small online seller in this day and age. As a buyer, Paypal, eBay, Amazon Marketplace etc are incredibly convenient.

ApplePieOfDestiny · **Joined:** 17th Dec, 2008 **Posts:** 8293

myp wrote:

Craster wrote:

As someone who doesn't ever sell stuff, Paypal is the most convenient thing in the known universe.

Indeed. I would hate to be a small online seller in this day and age. As a buyer, Paypal, eBay, Amazon Marketplace etc are incredibly convenient.

Although, as someone who has a Paypal account (never used) logged to his email address, it pains me everytime I pay for something through a paypal powered credit card checkout, and they send me an email mithering that I could have used Paypal. Well, I could have, but as there is no funds in the thing, that would have been a two stage process with ngative cashflow implications, wouldn't it, you dicks?

kalmar · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 13:59

As a small seller, PayPal is incredibly convenient as well. Just really quite expensive. I get in about 10k a year through paypal, and yes they've popped up to check about money laundering a couple of times.

Banhammer · **Joined:** 19th Aug, 2010 **Posts:** 37

kalmar wrote:

I get in about 10k a year through paypal

[edit]Guess who's testing the site in FireFox?

kalmar · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 14:04

"That's very nice of you"

Zardoz · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 14:06

Is that all through Ebay? What are you selling, Kalmar?

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 14:09

kalmar wrote:

"That's very nice of you"

Shit arse, that's not working

You'd think I would have noticed, what with the sudden halt of constant monies

kalmar · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 14:10

Zardoz wrote:

Is that all through Ebay? What are you selling, Kalmar?

No, most of it comes in the form of £ coins taped to bits of cardboard

(Yes. Electric car stuff.)

@Grim: lolz

Zardoz · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 14:13

kalmar wrote:

No, most of it comes in the form of £ coins taped to bits of cardboard

...

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

What has the total sum of donations been since inception Grim...?

And I don't mean since the film was released, so stop right there you unfunny bastards.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 14:18

ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:

What has the total sum of donations been since inception Grim...?

And I don't mean since the film was released, so stop right there you unfunny bastards.

Um, dunno off the top of my head. About £125.

I'll ask PayPal.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 14:20

It's really hard to tell - it's mixed it with donation money for Little Savages (which is fairly easy to remove as that's mostly of the £x per month variety) and, more challengingly, if we ever have a specific money-raiser for someone on the forum (like Mimi's nan that time) then that comes into the same account too. Bear with...

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Grim... wrote:

A human would have gotten around to looking at it and (I'm guessing, I can't remember) said "no problem here, gov", ticked a box and badabing, there's your money.

Heh, I never noticed this was a necrothread. Maybe Zardoz would be kind enough to tell us how it all went then out of curiosity.

Grim... wrote:

I'm not saying it's ideal, but I can completely understand why it has to be that way.

I totally agree that they need to be careful when it comes to money laundering etc but the onus should really be on them rather than their customers i.e. have your algorithims and temporarily block flagged payments by all means; but go out of your way to clearly communicate to your (probably innocent) customer what's going on and sort out any issues with the utmost haste. Pointing someone at a generic and potentially meaningless FAQ page while telling you your money's out of bounds for 21 days doesn't really smack of that kind of attitude. Not to mention the whole bit about sending your customers to a premium rate number just to get any information about what's going on.

Of course Zardoz will now post to say it all got sorted out easily and within minutes and I'm talking shit..

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 14:27

Actually, it looks like it wasn't sorted out at all.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 14:34

Bamba wrote:

Grim... wrote:

A human would have gotten around to looking at it and (I'm guessing, I can't remember) said "no problem here, gov", ticked a box and badabing, there's your money.

Heh, I never noticed this was a necrothread. Maybe Zardoz would be kind enough to tell us how it all went then out of curiosity.

It all got sorted out easily and within minutes.

IN MY DREAMS!

It took about a month altogether with money coming in for each transaction individually. Not used eBay since.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Zardoz wrote:

It took about a month altogether with money coming in for each transaction individually. Not used eBay since.

Excellent. Well, not for you obviously, but for the sake of my argument.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 14:43

I think it was all triggered because I was selling software (Old Mac System disks) and partly because one of the buyers didn't leave feedback until I prompted him.

Still an utter shite way to deal with things though.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 14:43

Bamba wrote:

Zardoz wrote:

It took about a month altogether with money coming in for each transaction individually. Not used eBay since.

Excellent. Well, not for you obviously, but for the sake of my argument.

Considering he got the money, it's quite a good case for mine, too

Zardoz · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 14:50

I do have a horror story about an internet transaction where I didn't get the money.

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

Grim... wrote:

Considering he got the money, it's quite a good case for mine, too

I never thought he wouldn't get the money at all (although it wouldn't have surprised me!) but drip-feeding your own money back to you over months and after such a shitty customer service experience to start with isn't really acceptable I don't think. What if you were running a business so the amounts of money were larger and more critical? This kind of nonsense could seriously endanger a new start-up I'd have thought. I can't find anything that finally explains the full events but, as an example I'm sure you heard about, there was the time that Paypal froze the Minecraft dev's account with ~600K in it and told him it could take weeks to free it up. We're talking about huge amounts of money and an easily verifiable seller; nothing about that should be taking weeks to sort out.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 15:04

Grim... wrote:

ElephantBanjoGnome wrote:

What has the total sum of donations been since inception Grim...?

And I don't mean since the film was released, so stop right there you unfunny bastards.

Um, dunno off the top of my head. About £125.

I'll ask PayPal.

Cor, that took it a while, and I was way out.

Anyway, since Beex came into being on the 26/3/2008 (nearly four years ago!) I've been sent a very generous £335.48 (that's after fees of about 2%, which I've just realised I get nailed on every time we do fundraising) - £240.70 of which is from one person

[edit]£200 of that came between 18th February and the 20th February 2011. What happened then?

Bamba · **Joined:** 25th Jul, 2010 **Posts:** 11128

How much does Beex cost to run a month? Um, if that's not too cheeky a question obviously. I've never really been involved in maintaining a website before so I'm just curious.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2012 15:11

Bamba wrote:

there was the time that Paypal froze the Minecraft dev's account with ~600K in it and told him it could take weeks to free it up. We're talking about huge amounts of money and an easily verifiable seller; nothing about that should be taking weeks to sort out.

I'm not convinced cases should be prioritised based on how much money is waiting. If they were, Zardoz would never have got paid.

I'm not saying they couldn't flesh that help page out a bit, or put more staff on. I'm saying they are doing a far better job of moving an insane amount of money around (Wikipedia says $19 billion in Q1 of 2009 alone) than I could even conceive of doing. The problems people have will be confined to a teeny tiny minority.

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