Be Excellent To Each Other

Popular enough in the last day to freeze the youtube counter. Short story: Lad buys one way ticket and is challenged by ticket inspector on the return route.

As usual the youtube comments are terrifying, but fun fact! While the big man could potentially be arrested for assault, authorised persons of the railway have some bylaw power or other to use reasonable force in such situations. Meaning the ticket inspector could have thrown him off legally. Anyway, buy a railway ticket, don't steal pick-n-mix, etc.

Right on big man. Fucking chavs (or in this case, neds) try it on constantly, what surprises me is the guard was more interested in just saying they'd sit there and not that he'd call the British Transport Police.



http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/legisla ... yelaws.pdf

Good work, Big Man.

I've seen this countless times by ticket inspectors and drivers on London buses. The driver turns off the engine, tells passengers he's not moving because of X person in the hope that one or more of the passengers will create enough fuss to remove the offender. They'll often do exactly what the guard in that video did and tell the person they have a problem with 'well, I don't care, but you are making everyone on this bus very angry. Unfortunately this then sometimes leads to a scuffle, and on a crowded bus this usually means that several quite innocent people get hurt. I understand the 'good on ya' attitude to the big guy in the video, but in a place as confined as a train carriage it's quite likely that people who have nothing to do with it will get needlessly hurt, AND I guess there's a chance the big guy could be done for assault if he hurt the idiot in the process.

It's a bit different with busses now as they run frequently enough that it's often better to just get off and get on the one behind. Also, that new ticket I spectrum swoop they started doing a few years ago where about 30 London Transport police storm busses from every entrance and wrestle non-payers off the bus if they refuse to pay or give address details. I don't like that at all as it's blinking scary the first few times it happens and you haven't got a clue why 30 police officers are storming your bus

Yeah, except that I've seen the offending person get off the original bus and get on the one behind after I have. Great times!

Just buy Ange a ticket then.

Bad idea. They'll start getting ideas then, and wanting stuff like the vote.

He said offending, not offensive.

Developments!



the Mail has a picture of a dead body from Liege on its front page as well. Tasteful.

I saw a similar story in the Metro today. I really must stop reading it; it's shit.

It's a game attempt to create a hard-done-by impression. 'My poor widdle Sam lost his insulin and has a BIG GRAZE on his face, n'aaaaaw'. Without trying to explain why the little shit didn't have a ticket, and why he felt the best way to clarify his reasoning to the ticket inspector was to swear and refuse to move.

I'm becoming addicted to the Mail. It's like looking into I don't know what.

A mirror, darkly.

You should avoid it. It makes me lose faith in humanity and contemplate the inevitable entropy of society. Only the Daily Mash perks me up.

The student had been out for the night and was a bit dozy with drink. That's not an excuse, but the student does claim (and has produced) his ticket which he claims was mis-sold to him. To be fair it seems he DID have two single tickets going in the same direction, which he claims he bought when asking for a return (and I've been sold two singles as a return before as sometimes it is cheaper).

When he tries to re-board the train it's to collect his rucksack which has his insulin, phone, college work etc, and I think wanting those things back is fair enough.

I think the daily in this story lay with the conductor. He set up the conflict by setting all the other passengers against this one guy. He should have called the transport police and have the student dealt with in the proper manner. I'm sure the large guy's actions were well-meaning, but he's five times the size of the student, the student MAY have been mis-sold the tickets, and he might now be done for assault. The inspector could have prevented it all by going through proper channels.

The inspector can only respond to what he's told and how he's talked to at the time. He very clearly, and more than once, explains that the ticket he's been showed is incorrect. Aforementioned shit makes no attempt to explain, or clarify, or even say 'but I bought a return', or do anything that makes him not look like a fare dodger. Swearing and then refusing to move compounds the situation, and the inspector cannot be held accountable for the actions of a member of the public. Ideally, rather than be thrown off, the inspector could have simply asked for his details to issue a fine which could have then been disputed at leisure on the production of the necessary evidence. They do have the discretion though to simply ask them to get off the train, which is pretty fair when, rather than attempt to explain, you just get sworn at.

The inspector does have some responsibility, though. Whether or not the guy had any ticket at all, he shouldn't have said that the train wouldn't move until he was off the train and that he'd anger all of the other folks in the train. He's causing conflict between passengers there. Then the big man asks if he wants the guy chucking off the train. The inspector should have said no, set the train in motion and called British Transport Police, not have responded in the positive.

If the bloke had been picking on someone his own size or bigger then I could maybe appreciate why the nation would be treating it as some sort of an act of heroism. What I'm seeing is an unpleasant and weedy looking child being attacked by a big fat arsehole twice his size.

I think CG's original point still stands - the inspector himself would have been within his rights to physically chuck the kid off the train, so no amount of bitching now is going to make anyone feel sorry for the little twerp.

Well, actually, it is. Whilst the inspector can use reasonable force (and whether "reaosnable force" would include making him land on his face is debatable), that doesn't mean a fellow passenger is allowed to chuck him off - it's assault, and the guy's a cunt.

There are no goodies in this story.

It's the children I feel sorry for.

Agreed, but I still don't feel sorry for him.

No one deserves to be randomly assaulted, whether they're an annoying prick or not.

He should have totally just poured green custard over him. That's totally not assault.

But not shaving foam.

I'm just saying the outcome is correlative to the actions of the kid at the time. Going to college and being diabetic doesn't elicit any retrospective sympathy from me when he conducted himself poorly to start with. Anyone here in that situation would have merely explained they'd bought a return, been able to show two single tickets (if true) and in the worst case bought another single to get home before demanding a refund against the original error at a later stage. I'd be able to do all this without swearing and even after a couple of drinks which, as Mimi said, is no excuse.

As I said in the original post, the big man risks arrest for assault, as the reasonable force cited in the Bylaw can't be delegated to a MOP.

Well, it's perfectly reasonable that he be removed from the train, and he has no sympathy for that.

It's not reasonable that he gets assaulted by some random twat. I am sympathetic on that score.

Effectively, the bloke has put himself at risk of a conviction of ABH (he could say he was pissed and wasn't used to it, but y'know, Scotland, 5 year maximum sentence) for what? £1.30? Big Guy should have told the lad to shut up, paid the ticket for the lad, and eaten one less deep fried mars bar or have one less tin of Tenants.

Yeah but imagine if the outcome was the same, what's the diff? Outrage level?
Not to excuse the random twat of course, for he is clearly a twat.

Yeah, then he'd be a hero. Although it's more like 5 quid from there IIRC.

Eh?

If the inspector tossed him off using more than reasonable force, then yes, I'd still be sympathetic to the kid, as the inspector would have broken the law. If the inspector ejected him using reasonable force (which, as before I suspect would not include tossing him on his head) then all's fine.

Oooh you're such a racialist. He was probably off his tits on Irn Bru.

Still can't be sympathetic for the wee shit though, sorry. But then you're talking to the person that would advocate hand amputation for the theft of pick-n-mix.

I'd have arranged for the police to have met the teenager at the next stop.

However, I expect 'the big guy' to be on a new reality series next year (E4 or ITV2). I'll leave the title to the imagination of the reader.

Trainspotting?

The force was above reasonable, endangered other passengers and wasn't carried out by the inspector, but a random member of the public. I'd think that was assault. It was nothing to do with the other passenger (the 'train won't move' bit was not caused by the student, but by the inspector... None of this would have happened if the inspector had simply called the police).

Someone asked an interesting question this morning. If it hadn't been a young man... Let's imagine it was a 70 year old. Same size as the student, same dilemma, carrying his belongings in a bag, phone, medication. Been out to meet friends for Christmas, a couple of whiskeys. Has two singles instead of a return. Protests innocence, doesn't want to leave train or pay again. Same big man handles him off the trail with the same force. Still a hero? Would the other passengers still applaud then?

There's a whiff of an unpleasant sort of vigilantiism about this thread.

No, and it's been commented elsewhere that many inspectors ignore those too drunk to speak, let alone show tickets. That's not acceptable either.

It was also noted that it would be the British Transport Police they'd have to call to meet them at the station, who'd have had to come from Edinburgh central and would have taken a *very* long time to get to Linlithgow, so you'd see why the inspector wouldn't choose that as a first option.

I don't think anyone disputes the actions of the big man as potentially assault, either.

Do you know how long it takes the BTP to respond to anything? It's a fucking long time. They only have about three officers and their car is broken.

Meanwhile, a trainload of passengers is late getting home, Scotrail incurs penalties for being late ('ticket irregularities', as they're known, go down to the TOC) and all because some whining drunken little shit didn't bother checking his tickets, tried it on and then started being abusive when that didn't work out.

He didn't get smacked around enough I say. Disabled the safety interlock on the door, hold his face on the platform surface and accelerate out to completely grind his face off.*

*NB: Final paragraph might be OTT, subs please check.

I'd say it's more of a whiff of people who've been on public transport countless times and held up by a passenger acting out, or refusing to pay, and not being able to get where they are going in a timely fashion. When you see it so often, it's fairly natural to get a sense of satisfaction in this instance, and not look too deeply into the details.

Really? A sense of satisfaction out of someone getting attacked because you got delayed on a train or a bus?

Christ.

You're WORSE THAN CLARKSON!!!!

Christ, what a bunch of fairies.

[edit]Except Perkies.

Rather depends on your definition of attacked, doesn't it? I've chucked lary people off buses before, more than once. For a damned sight more provocation than this, admittedly.

I try and avoid later buses.

Well, "being thrown and landing on your head" would do it.


Really? What were they doing, and what, exactly, did you do?

He tossed them off.

I'm disappointed you changed your earlier post.

Your set up was better for the punchline.

The 'landing on your head' bit came from the father's quote only. How strong exactly would that bloke have to be to chuck that guy off and have him land head first?



Intimidating other passengers, usually pissed, or getting into stand-up arguments with the driver following a clear attempt to just sneak their way onto the bus. And what exactly I did was exceedingly similar to what the guy in the video did - grab hold, escort to door, and shove.

So whether the correct action is taken or a large man who has no business in the matter throws you onto a platform is dependant on how the British Transport Police station their personnel? I can't see how that should make a jot of difference.