Hurrah for Apple: out-of-warranty repairs

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

I had a problem with my MacBook Pro, so I sent this email to Apple's CEO Tim Cook:

Quote:

Dear Tim,

I'm a loyal Apple user going back ten years; I own multiple iPhones, iPads, and Macs and I write for a prominent Apple weblog (AOL's TUAW.com). It is with some disappointment therefore that I must bring to your attention a seeming manufacturing fault with my MacBook Pro that Apple has never acknowledged and is unwilling to resolve. I am hoping you might be able to bring some light to bear on my situation.

The fault shows itself as persistent screen flickers on the internal display, only when my laptop is using the energy-efficient nVidia 9400 graphics chipset. The entire screen briefly blinks to a plain black display, as often as once every few minutes. The problem doesn't occur when using the more powerful 9600 graphics chip or on any external monitors, so it's not a fault related to the screen itself. I've had this fault for over a year now.

I recently mentioned this to a Genius Bar staff member at the Apple Store in Cardiff. He checked, and confirmed that Apple has never issued a formal service note for the fault; anecdotally, however, there are many reports on the web that Apple staff members will admit they have seen the fault before. He suggested a few basic steps (resetting PRAM, swapping out the system RAM, etc), none of which have helped my problem.

I am far from alone. There are many references to this problem, not least of which is this three year, 93 page thread on discussions.apple.com where hundreds of dissatisfied users have gathered to report the exact same fault. There's plenty more too:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10329923-263.html
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/ind ... 92413.html
http://blog.andrewng.com/2009/09/11/lat ... r-problem/
http://www.goodbytes.be/index.php/blog/ ... r_problem/
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=991612

I've been around this loop before. I had one of the dual-USB white iBooks that had the problem where the logic board would flex and warp under normal use; in three years, that laptop had four replacement 'boards from Apple before eventually failing just outside the extended warranty period. That time, I feel that Apple did the right thing; having sold me something defective, it stood by its product and helped me out.

What is Apple's position on this problem? It seems clear to me that a history of identical fault reports from many thousands of users cannot be a coincidence. And yet, in more than three years since the problem started occurring, there has never been a formal statement from Apple addressing the problem. Will Apple stand by me this time? My purchase of this MacBook Pro required me to save, hard, for almost six months; given the price I paid for it (and the good care I've taken of it) I would expect it to have lasted longer than this. I really feel let down that I bought a lemon but have no recompense.

Please, Tim: is there anything you can do to help me?

Kind regards,

Richard

That was Nov 18th. The next day I received a call from the "Executive Relations" department, and provided the very lovely rep with my serial number and some extra details. Last Saturday, I dropped it in to the Apple Store in Cardiff for testing. Today, I picked up my MacBook Pro back up, following a free-of-charge motherboard swap. That would have been a £425 repair had I paid for it.

Now, under the SoGA, Apple did have some duty of care to me; it's a premium laptop that shouldn't have failed after 2.5 years. But then again, it wasn't an abject failure -- more of an annoyance, really -- and I'd had 1.5 years of use out of it before it developed problems. Had we ended up arguing in the Small Claims Court I can't imagine I'd have some away with much. So I'm pretty bloody happy with that.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

It's only really a hurrah if as a result of this they've acknowledged the problem and will now fix it for all those other users who don't have your TUAW clout.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16636

Yeah, exactly. Do you reckon you'd have got the same result if you'd skipped that part in your letter?

myp · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 18:10

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Please, Tim: is there anything you can do to help me?

I read this line in the style of Oliver Twist wanting some more gruel. Good stuff though.

Bobbyaro · **Joined:** 18th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 11897

yes, that is very good, but have they acknowledged the fault for the "many thousands of others"? Does changing your motherboard do so?
Edit, Craster beat me.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Craster wrote:

It's only really a hurrah if as a result of this they've acknowledged the problem and will now fix it for all those other users who don't have your TUAW clout.

What if I don't care about those people? I AM AN AYN RAND STYLE SUPERMAN. I HATE THE PEONS.

(You're not wrong though. Please note I'm posting this publicly -- this post will go up on my blog on the weekend -- for later people to hopefully use as leverage.)

Bobbyaro wrote:

yes, that is very god, but have they acknowledged the fault for the "many thousands of others"? Does changing your motherboard do so?

I think I grotesquely exaggerated when I said "many thousands", incidentally. You can follow the links I posted yourself to check but I'm pretty sure I was laying it on thick. It's also not really that clear it really is a defect, as such.

myps pies wrote:

I read this line in the style of Oliver Twist wanting some more gruel.

Heh. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I'm a royal dick to firms when they mess me about and they are in the wrong (my myriad work-time phone calls to Hotpoint have become a legend in my office because I was so caustic) but you can't come on too strong when you are essentially begging.

WTB · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 14497

Hurrah for blackmail!

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

markg wrote:

Yeah, exactly. Do you reckon you'd have got the same result if you'd skipped that part in your letter?

Bloody good question. I almost left it out because I wasn't sure if it would be counter-productive. Particularly as my TUAW posts often skew towards the Apple-skeptic rather than the Apple-fanboy (for example.)

WTB · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 14497

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I've heard more than enough impressive customer service stories about Apple that I believe they probably would've responded to such a letter from anyone in a similar fashion. Probably.

Bobbyaro · **Joined:** 18th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 11897

I think the fact they have an "Executive Relations" dept in the first place puts them in the top 5% of companies, they fact it responds and works probably moves them significantly higher.

kalmar · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 18:30

Well done!

I wonder if they'd spring for a new LCD panel on my 2006 iMac? I googled it and they've all failed in the same way, even those for sale on eBay show the same fault. Hundreds of people griping about it. I did think about emailing apple support, but no idea where to start.
Too old now maybe.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Craster wrote:

It's only really a hurrah if as a result of this they've acknowledged the problem and will now fix it for all those other users who don't have your TUAW clout.

What if I don't care about those people? I AM AN AYN RAND STYLE SUPERMAN. I HATE THE PEONS.

(You're not wrong though. Please note I'm posting this publicly -- this post will go up on my blog on the weekend -- for later people to hopefully use as leverage.)

Heh, yeah. I meant to say this is more of a hurrah for you than a hurrah for Apple.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Craster wrote:

Heh, yeah. I meant to say this is more of a hurrah for you than a hurrah for Apple.

Well, it hasn't gone as far as I'd like, but it still deserves credit for not telling me to go piss up a rope. Many companies would have.

MrPSB · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 18:50

Bobbyaro wrote:

I think the fact they have an "Executive Relations" dept in the first place puts them in the top 5% of companies, they fact it responds and works probably moves them significantly higher.

Really? I'd have thought it would be pretty standard for a company to have a few bods or a team that handle complaints sent to the chief exec or other board members. With the best will in the world they're not going to have a clue how to fix the problem other than hand it on and say "I want this fixed 5 minutes ago". Maybe I'm just spoilt by the fact the company I work for does this.

GazChap · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2011 18:51

I wonder if they'd do anything about my late-2008 Macbook Air, that flat out refuses to work properly with my home wi-fi setup. All other Apple devices work fine, and non-Apple devices, but this Macbook Air just won't work with it. It's not the wi-fi chip itself, it works fine at my office etc. - it's just my home router that it doesn't play ball with.

Investigation on t'internet suggests driver issues in recent Snow Leopard/Lion updates, but I dunno.

ElephantBanjoGnome · **Joined:** 22nd Dec, 2010 **Posts:** 8175

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Bloody good question.

And easily answered. The 'I write for prominent Apple blog' coupled with the direct questioning makes it seem like your whole letter is a preamble for a blog post on the subject. There isn't any goodness from the bottom of their hearts here, it's a simple bit of PR in the knowledge you'll probably do exactly what you've just said you'll do - post up their 'generosity' for all to see.

Using it as precedent is unlikely because most companies just churn out a 'case by case basis' as a caveat, added to the fact that their response to you probably didn't acknowledge the widespread nature of the problem, but rather they'd replace it for you FOC as a 'gesture of goodwill', which is code for 'Shutting you up but not admitting liability'.

I'm not knocking the result mind you Doc, I myself would leverage every bit of pressure I could muster to get the result I wanted. But prompt, excessive customer service is the exception, not the rule.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

ElegantBaubleGnome wrote:

And easily answered. The 'I write for prominent Apple blog' coupled with the direct questioning makes it seem like your whole letter is a preamble for a blog post on the subject. There isn't any goodness from the bottom of their hearts here, it's a simple bit of PR in the knowledge you'll probably do exactly what you've just said you'll do - post up their 'generosity' for all to see.

Note that Apple's PR department has never, to my knowledge, responded to any direct questions any of my editors has ever sent it -- not to deny allegations, not to confirm good things, not to give Apple's side of the story in response to criticism. TUAW doesn't get review models or press invites. It doesn't give a shit that we exist. I can't imagine, therefore, that this implicit threat carried any weight.

throughsilver · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6197

myps pies wrote:

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Please, Tim: is there anything you can do to help me?

I read this line in the style of Oliver Twist wanting some more gruel. Good stuff though.

I read it more as a Consoletation Zone visitor.

While obviously nice one Gaywood, I was secretly imagining Tim Cook (played by Patrick Moore) saying 'very well, you snivelling child..! Simply press up up, down down...'

romanista · **Posted:** Sat Dec 10, 2011 13:06

apple didn't want to repair my under warranty macbook.. it works but i thought i could get a screen without breaks, but they wanted 600 pounds..

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

That's unusual. What do you mean by 'breaks'? In my experience, Apple within the warranty period is typically very good (especially with things like iOS devices, which it'll usually just swap at a Genius Bar), but once you're past that point, it can become anything from uncooperative to outright hostile, regardless of things like the Sale of Goods Act.

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Hurrah for Apple: out-of-warranty repairs

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