Be Excellent To Each Other

Indeed. Because I use no driving aids apart from the auto clutch, if I don't change down as I'm braking I just lock the wheels almost every time - engine braking is awesome.

I've found that I simply must use ABS. I can't brake properly with a pad without locking the wheels up. I imagine it'd be a lot easier with pedals because I could judge the amount of pressure I need to apply better with my foot.

You need to be careful about using your real world driving techniques in video games.

Oh, that's rich.

Any special offers on this yet?

Because my car was squirrelly as fuck, I was using engine braking to drift through bits like Maple Valley reverse. Turned TCS on now, as dealing with that, plus the AI braking halfway through corners was doing my nut.

All in all, the first serious racer that I've dedicated proper time to since GT3, so it must be doing something right. There are some niggles (racing through traffic on Fujimi Kaido and Amalfi can fuck right off) but all in all, it really is bloody good.

Yeah I don't get the traffic thing at all. At all.

Traffic?

There's traffic in a couple of the "time attack" races. It's annoying because bumping into a car will dirty your lap, and they stick religiously to the racing line driving at about 40MPH. It doesn't even make sense. If it were real traffic, they'd be driving on the right/left side of the road. Instead they're just really slow "racers", perfectly spaced out and not actually "racing". Really dumb idea if you ask me. I mean, it adds to the challenge and I can understand that angle, but considering this is a racing simulator, there really isn't a plausible explanation for this sort of traffic in the game. I don't know of any similar real-world events...

That sounds like something that belongs in Burnout, not Forza.

If you can lock the brakes, you can threshold brake. Your tires don't magically gain extra grip to slow you even better if you're going down the gears too.

It's all down to the individual driver, the car and how you've set it up. I stay in the same gear, threshold brake, then quickly shift straight into the gear I want to accelerate back out of the corner ('fun' with the sequential shifting). In Forza you can tweak your brake bias a bit to compensate but you might want to go down sequentially due to the shift of weight to the front wheels which might cause you problems, especially in the wet.

I didn't say your tyres will magically gain extra grip. Engine braking has a number of advantages - for a start, you're already in the acceleration gear so you can concentrate on navigating the corner rather than changing gears whilst steering and possibly upsetting the balance of the car if you happen to induce engine braking mid-turn, engine braking slows the car so you're not completely relying on your brakes therefore keeping your brakes a little cooler and less likely to fade, the exhaust makes a lovely popping noise, etc.

You'd have to be playing with the clutch enabled and deliberately holding it in to NOT have engine braking at all times in Forza, did you think that's what I was doing?

You're talking about going down gear by gear to keep the engine revs very high and having to keep an eye on that as well as your foot brake and your approach to the corner, which isn't going to slow you down any faster than leaving it in whatever high gear your in and braking a bit harder. I've tried doing that and it's a distraction as if you mistime it you risk overrevving the engine. There are times when it might be useful.

I approach in whatever gear I'm already in, braking, then as I'm at the correct speed for the corner I change straight to the gear I want to be in to accelerate back out the other side. The trick being to do that before I start cornering too heavily.

Assuming we're talking about real life, I agree with you, but

you won't do this if you don't change gear - in fact, the only time you're likely to do this is if you do change down and get your heel-toe wrong. One of the biggest advantages that you don't mention is that being in a lower gear helps to prevent locking the tyres up (although less so the more sporty the car is).

My brain is also trying to tell me that if you change down correctly you shouldn't get a popping noise from the exhaust, but I'm sure that's not true.

I always change down into a corner. It's just right, innit. Not that any of my cars actually have gears now.

In real life I do and in racing games too. It just seems easier to get into the right gear as you enter the corner rather than half way round it. Faffing around with the gears halfway round as you are trying to spot the apex and get back on the accelerator as soon as you can seems more difficult to me. I don't worry too much about over-revving the engine, as soon as I'm on the brakes it's just a quick count down from whatever gear I'm in to whatever gear I want to be in to accelerate out again. It seems to feel better when cornering to have a tiny bit of throttle applied and makes the transition from cornering to accelerating smoother.

Yep, that's exactly what I do.

Plus, if you're in a RWD which is properly set up, braking around corners is just plain slower.

Also, in real life I love the feeling of getting a heel-toe downshift just right, you change gear and feel nothing at all.

Yeah, you should never brake in a corner. The way I'm happiest is to brake (and change gear) until I've started to turn, then come off the brakes and put on enough power to balance the car flat. It gives you handy "limit hints" because if you're going as fast as you can you'll get a little bit of oversteer followed by a little bit of understeer that the car will immediately catch.

Slow in, fast out, aim to be in the gear you want for going around the corner before you start turning.

When I did a rally instruction day, I was taught to brake by gearing down almost exclusively.

You didn't use the brakes? Rally cars have phenomenal brakes.

I suspect he didn't want you to crash

No, he just wanted me to not really slow down much.

At the end he took over to "show me how it was done", got halfway round and muffed up a corner and rolled the car. That was amusing.

So it's gear down, then quickly in and slowly out to roll into a muff. Got it.

Surely that is how rallying is done. Well, some drivers anyway

Is this still happening tonight folks?

Indeed it is! Four hours to go. Come up with some ideas for races we could do.

I'm going to try and join in, but I'm quite ill at the moment, so we'll see.

*plays Forza 2*

NASCAR vs V8 Supercars. One race round Sunset Peninsula Speedway, and one around the full road course.

I'm shooting for 8:30 but I might be a little late. I've just got in from footy and I have to finish off some work for tomorrow.

Ill be on about 9 tonight. Forgot I was on a course.

Good racing tonight. Will teach me to called Perkies car shit and ugly. When it was merely ugly.

Yep, was fun! Also, I'm shit with powerful RWD cars...

Thanks all for coming along and joining the fun, especially poor suffering Plissken.

Moments of greatness included:
-Syclones around Tsukuba
-classic Italian supercars around not-Amalfi
-the Kalmar Series, with hybrids (I don't know when to change gear!) and electrics (there are no gears!)
-WTB forgetting where the finish line is on Road Atlanta (soon to be a major Youtube video)
-the return of Chinny's S Scirocco, which I didn't actually get to see as there was a big smash on the first bend
-someone driving their stock car along the wall of Indianapolis (who was that and how did you do it?)
-bloody Ramsea
-a Ruf old time on Suzuka
-the Mercedes SLS, which at least looks nice because it certainly doesn't corner
-the fierce Lotus 2-Eleven.

I will look into starting the stock car series thing next week, though I'm troubled that the cars now seem to be pre-painted and there's no Dodge any more.

As promised, WTB forgetting where the finish line is:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15J4Q7VC-Wo

Are we up for starting the stock car thing next week? Bear in mind the cars cost 900,000cr and I'm not even sure yet if you can repaint them (I can't afford one right now!) so that might be a bit of a disappointment. Oh, and it is just the Monte Carlo and Fusion, the Charger is indeed gone.

Also, definitely no race on the 23rd as I'll be in work until 10pm.

I haven't got 900,000cr!

Also, what night will it be on? I have exams next week so I'm not going to be able to guarantee an appearance, but I'll certainly try to make it.

I am currently grinding the money If you don't have/want one of your own you can always use the stock version with the generic paintjob.

It'll just be part of the normal Wednesday proceedings, we'll do one race in the series each week until we run out of ovals.

EDIT: GOOD NEWS! If you take the stock cars into the paintshop, you can paint them any colour you like and sticker them up good and proper!

Guess who's back, back again, Team Maddie's back, tell a friend.

Frickin' awesome.

That's prety sweet, eh?

Am I right in thinking Infineon Raceway and Road America are in this game? NASCAR drive there, the Gilles Villeneuve in Canada and Watkins Glen in NY as well - not just ovals.

I've cracked and ordered this today. Should be here by Wednesday.

We're all playing Halo 3 now.

Not long to go now! Depending on whether or not myp's copy has arrived, we might or might not start the stock car thing tonight (he's quite keen, our mypsytits). This gives you two weeks to decorate your cars to an awesome degree.

Yeah don't start it tonight proper, I can't make it! Gotta prep for a mock in the morning!

Most of us can just make light of others on the fly, man.

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!