Be Excellent To Each Other

...for non-English-speaking spouses




I personally think that you should be able to speak English (or at the very least be learning to soeak it) if you want to come and live in the UK, If I wanted to go live in another country I would expect them to want me to speak their language. However, is it different for a spouse? If one of them speaks English is that enough?

I know it's slightly different, (as Spain is in the EU) but my parents retired to Spain, and my dad learnt much more Spanish than my Mum did, she had "tourist level" Spanish, but my dad always did the talking when out and about.

Is that not the same thing?

Malc

I wouldn't say it's racist in the least. It's fairly unwelcoming though. Providing subsidised English lessons to those seeking to immigrate would be a more pleasant approach.

Do you mean 'offer', as in not 'mandatory'? If so, I agree

Yes, offer.

I'm on board, going forward.

I basically agree with this. I can understand why you'd want people to speak English to come here, but it's not necessary that their spouse does. Preferable, yes, but not desirable, nor entirely realistic in all cases.

All I ask is that they laugh at my jokes, is that so wrong?
("Yes," - Ed.)

Malc - it's not the same thing if, god forbid, anything happens to him tomorrow.

And what about in court, or giving a witness statement, or at a GP appointment? Are we happy forking out for a translator in these cases when lessons would be cheaper? If people don't want to bother their arse doing something, fine. But why should any wider society then bend over backwards to accommodate them? We've already got plenty of lazy people who cost a lot of money. And these people fighting a legal battle - I'd ban them from the UK on principal for being mardy cunts. Surely it is quicker and cheaper than going through the courts to, you know, learn English. What was this guy doing during the last 15 years where he was 'dividing his time' between here and India? Didn't he think it was a reasonable idea to pick up a few basics? Is he bitter about the Raj perhaps?

I've worked with refugee women whose partners learned English and they did not, which was handy for the partner battering them. There's a lot to be said for every individual having a rudimentary level of independence in life.

Hmm, interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about the tests.

I will say this though. I was in Toronto last year with work, and I was surprised to discover that it's a very international-feelIng city. So much so that in the area around my employer's office (Markham), the ethnicity is about 70% Asian. You can drive past shopping malls without a word of signage in English and you can hear any of a number of Asian languages being spoken on the street. I'd say about half of our hires out there -- and these are educated computer programmers -- English is a distant second language. Government forms are available in various languages and you can live your whole life without talking English.

Is that a good or a bad thing? I couldn't decide. It certainly makes immigration easier, which is part of why Toronto has experienced rocketship growth in recent years. And it leads to a lot of cultural exchange (you can get a lot of really great dim sum, as a trivial example). And it promotes tolerance and diversity, which I strongly believe are worthy goals in and of themselves. But it's also a big inefficiency for government services, of course. It's an interesting topic.

Related: should the Welsh Assembly spend however much it costs to support Welsh, when there's likely more people speaking Polish or Urdu in the UK than there are Welsh?

Growing up I lived in Wembley, an area with a mostly Asian (specifically a mostly Hindu Indian, with minority Pakistani Muslim and Indian Sikh) population. As my school was vast majority Asian in background, the friends, and their parents I saw, were mostly Indians of Hindu or Jain religion.

The men (fathers, grandfathers, uncles) all spike English as they went out to work and had to communicate with colleagues and the public.

Of all the friends I had, though, only one had a mother who's command of the English language allowed her to communicate more than a 'hello'.

Most of these women had been in the UK 20+ years at this point.

So it creates a micro society. These women will only speak to Gujarati speaking shop keepers as they can't communicate in English. All the shop keepers are on one road Ealing Road, Wembley, look it up. It creates an 'us and them' issue in the community, where others see them as 'only looking out for themselves' and other such nonsense.

The heartbreaking thing is, these women WANTED to learn English. I've spoken to so many daughters of these women that I believe this feeling is almost universal.

They came here expecting a better life, and to achieve, but instead of being kept in a kitchen in India, they are stuck in one in NW London. The men say you do not NEED to learn English. The man will take care of this and that, and in time you are isolated, communicating only within your small community, which ate often extended family members.

This is why women in these communities are often SO keen for their daughters to do well at school, so they can have the life that they themselves were hoping moving to the UK might bring them but never did.

Obviously, this is anecdotal, but it shapes my opinion. I don't think it should be necessary to speak 'good' English, but to be able to say basic greetings, order from shops, ask directions, should be encouraged, to help lead a richer life and to help the merging of communities.

The story in question seems a minority case in where it is the man who does not speak English, so presumably does not work, etc? I think that case may have been specifically chosen so it deflected from the women who have practically no life or contact outside the home.

Surely if you are going to become a citizen of a country the test/interview to become the citizen would be conducted in that countries own language? It's better for everyone if you speak the language of the country, I imagine if I was to apply for swedish citizenship, I'd have to be able to have a pretty strong grasp of the language to undertake the interview and to be of use to society.

Unfortunately God didn't forbid and they both died (separately) 3 years ago...

Malc

If I remember correctly, the UK doesn't have a legally defined official language. One of those situations where no-one ever thought it'd come up. And now the Welsh, Cornish and everyone else speaking dead languages would be up in arms if you tried.