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In a nutshell, my contention is that many journalists, specifically those working for newspapers (of whatever supposed political stripe), are mercenary people intent on self advancement and selling newspapers, cynically manipulative of people's often basest emotions to achieve such ends and selling their grannies for the next 'big scoop'. The 'journalistic methods' they routinely use - even legal ones - are based upon subterfuge, lies, misrepresentation and deceit, so when something that looks like a duck, quacks like a duck - or let's say 'an amoral, despicable scumbag' for arguments' sake [delete as appropriate], we can hardly be surprised. I've seen very little indeed in either the pages following my stating this viewpoint, in this thread, and most certainly from information emerging from the national media at large, to dispel that fundamental belief - far from it.
Gah. As I've poitned out, it's really rather, well, simple minded, to look at it that way. Yes of course there are some poeple, as within any profession, that are unpleasant people. Yes there are ambitious wastes of air, yes there is corruption. But to paint the whole profession that way is, as I've said, just silly. Really, really silly, and very much beneath you. It’s either that or deliberately provocative hyperbole, but you seem to have made pretty clear that it’s a genuinely held belief.
I've given as one simple example the Paul Foot awards - look it up, and look at the people who've been awarded it. Those sort of journalists aren't completely rare, you know. Those are the run of the mill investigative journalists – people who actually care about exposing wrong doing, injustice and corruption.
Yes, some of that requires underhanded (but almost always legal) methods - but the fact you find that more worrying that the wrongdoing they expose with it is bonkers.
Investigative journalism is crucial in a democracy. It holds both the authorities and big business to account. The country would be a very different place if the regular incompetences, corruptions, nepotisms and so on weren’t exposed. Is that preferable to the, yes, occasionally flawed media we have now?
I’ve also pointed out about local papers – they do, despite a lot of them being owned by the hated Mail Group, do a lot of good locally, campaigning on local matters like maternity unit closures, dodgy goings on at grammar school governors and cheap to fix road safety issues that the council couldn’t be arsed with, to give but three examples form the last three years just form one of our local papers.
Of course most journalists, as I've already pointed out, just report on current affairs. Just telling us about stuff that happens, from the court reporter in the local paper to the foreign affairs team at The Times. Are they all scumbags? I hardly think we can call John Simpson and his ilk scumbags, can we? And would we prefer they didn’t all exist, and we didn’t know what was going on anywhere?
Seriously, stop being so silly.
Oh, and on the Guardian thing – is it possible that the Guardian didn’t spell out the stuff to the Select Committee at the time because its lawyers told it not to? Perhaps due to insufficiently robust evidence. The fact they didn’t publish at the time does rather suggest that may have been relevant. And the fact that you’re using that far from clear cut example of the Guardian not being whiter than white as an example why even they’re scumbags, being happy to discount the good they‘ve done in this case, and numerous others, is risible.
But then there’s absolutely no point in arguing this with you, because you’re not going to change your mind or accept the remotest possibility that your perception of the world may be slightly off-base.
I’ve got a lot of work to do today, but I’ll doubtless be back on here continuing to bang my head against the wall, as, despite the fact you’re impervious to counter arguments, I do enjoy it. You’re like crack, Cavey.
Sorry mate, I was out all of yesterday and am tied up for much of today also, so this is a quick holding post just to let you know that I'll get back to you on this.
Some misunderstandings there, to say the least and I've already quoted an ex-Deputy Prime Minister (and victim of phone hacking) who has explicitly claimed that 'all the papers and hundreds of journalists are involved', or somesuch. Plus, numerous examples where the so-called quality press have fallen well short of the high ideals that they routinely espouse and use as criteria to judge others. I have specifically excluded the BBC from my criticisms, from the start, and I have not claimed we should abolish the Press, merely that I think many of them are scumbags and specifically
just restricted to NI? (Which, given the revelations that continue to flow from the media, I don't think is too unreasonable a position?)
Also, I am not as inflexible as you make out; I am sufficiently flexible to have changed my very long held voting allegance during the last General Election, for example. I do admit when I am wrong, which is frequently, but this is, after all, only a personal opinion (which I'm afraid I'm sticking to), not claimed objective fact.