Be Excellent To Each Other

I know a few people on here have done/are doing one.

I'm considering doing it next but could do with some honest tales of exactly how much work is involved, I do have to take into consideration that I have kids...

So any stories or advice would be greatly appreciated - thank you!

http://www.alumnaservices.co.uk/

I did mine through an American university, which probably holds as much weight as that place...

What can I say? "Years of work utterly wasted" is probably the most succinct. Actually, I don't even want to think about it.

I can write a very long reply to this. What are you more interested in -- the mechanics of day to day life as a PhD student, or the effect it can have on your career afterwards, or something else? What sort of background do you have, and what area would you be researching in?

http://www.phdcomics.com/ is very good, BTW.

Woo-hoo!

I just need $349 and I can be a doctor of Information Technology in just ten days!

The Reverend Doctor Owen. I like it!

Well I know how it will help me in the 'workplace'. I want to do my psychology PhD *watches Dr A cringe*, but I don't want to take on more than I can cope with. Having a horrendous couple of years while at uni has shown me that. So the mechanics of the day to day stuff I suppose, work load, time, etc..

Everyone I speak to (where I work) says its far too much work stress and bollocks so dont even bother. gets you negligably more money in a career but can allow you to progress higher given time.

Unles you are *fascinated* by a very very significantly small subset of all knowledge within your area of interest enough to warrant your full attention for 3-4 years (dont forget writing the thesis for a year) then I would seriously consider NOT doing a Ph.D.

The Right Reverend Doctor Jimmy Owen sounds better. Try for that.

This is very true. You will look into something tiny and specific for 3 or 4 years.

I don't know how it works in Psychology so I can't give any advice, but working in a Science is a lot better than in a language or humanities course. They generally don't pay you and you get very lonely.

Funding for a full time PhD is typically about £3000 per quarter. If you had to work at home and do it part time then it will probably take you 6 years I'm guessing (based on how long the part time guy here has been here).

On the plus side though, I got paid just enough to get by in london whilst working in a job better than being in an office or something. And The Tax Payer paid me to go you a telescope in Hawaii. So it's not all bad.

I sometimes think about doing an MA in Art & Design, but then a new game comes out or suttin' and I never get round to looking into it more.

I want to get a PhD, just so I can say I have a PhD.

That's all the reason I have, and it's starting to not sound good enough. :/

Get famous. They give you a Doctorate for free. Don't even have to study.

most friends that i have who have done it you see having no idea what they should do for the first year, got some interesting ideas the second, go to far away places the third, and then discover they still have to do all the work. When they think they have almost done that, somebody discovers their main hypothesis wasn't that good anyway and they spend the remaining months and a few unpaid afterwards to correct it..

but during the first 3 years it is fun

Do people who aren't famous ever get them? I want my dad to have one. Maybe I should nominate him, or something.

I hereby give Grim...s dad a Doctorate in Zardology.

You now owe me £50,000 or a classic sports car

Worst attempt at hiding text ever.

If I hid better you might not have seen it.

There's a lot of negativity in this thread, which surprises me a little. I had a blast when I did my PhD, but it may be different in the humanities. Here's my story.

I did mine from Sep 2001-Sep 2004 in the Computer Science department of Cardiff Uni. Pay wise, I did pretty well. Standard stipend from the EPSRC (quango that pay for PhDs in the physical sciences) was £8.5k per year, and my PhD was part sponsored by BAE Systems[1] so I had another £3k per year on top of that. Now that's not loads, but it is tax free. Most PhD students also have a chance to help out with the teaching in the department, running tutorials and suchlike, and that pays pretty well, around £15 per hour. Because the stipend is tax free, that means the tutorial income is inside your income tax threshold, so there are no deductions. Upshot is that I was on the equivalent of about £22k per year, which was pretty nice, and a world away from living on student grants as an undergrad.

The main reason my PhD was good was my supervisor. When I started, he already had the problem mapped out, so I had no messing around; I was straight on it. In addition, the radio engineering group is quite big in Cardiff (3 staff, 5-7 postdocs, 4-5 doctoral candidates) so there were three of us starting at the same time. This meant it wasn't as lonely as it could have been -- we all worked in roughly the same area, close enough to understand each others work (this is rarer than you may think), so there was always some to talk problems over with. Having said that I spent most of year 3 and all of my subsequent work (like a lot of PhDs I overspilled into year 4) working at home to cut down on my travelling, so I think I had the loneliness thing as bad as anyone. It's manageable but it does suck sometimes.

So, yeah, supervisors. Your supervisor choice is critical -- that link isn't a joke, it's a parable. Your supervisor needs to be able to make time for you, and willing to keep tabs on your work. They need to be available for you to go find with problems. Ideally, from my experience, they'll steer you towards a topic for the PhD, if not outright pick one for you -- otherwise you'll spend at least the first six months with no idea what to do. It takes that long just to absorb enough literature to make a sensible choice. All the PhDs I've seen flounder have been down to the supervisor, usually because he or she is too senior and can't make enough time for the student.

So what's the payoff? For a few years afterwards, I moved into a software engineering role in industry, and was probably paid less overall than if I'd never done the PhD. However with four years under my belt now it has definitely opened doors to me that I wouldn't have been able to get through otherwise, and I'm sure I now out-earn what I could have done, and enjoy more responsibility and control in work. I can say from a career development point of view it's worked out but it's not a night and day difference compared to where I'd be if I'd not done one.

All this, though, is really window dressing. The best bit was, for several years, I walked around knowing more about something that anyone else in the world. That is utterly intoxicating to me, it's why I did a PhD in the first place, and it's why I would do one again. There is no doubt that it is a stupendous amount of work and stress, and from strictly rational point of view unless you want to work in academia it probably doesn't make sense. But if you're like me, if you'd like to actually create some knowledge, it's a rare opportinity to completely, unequivocally, genuinely be able to say: "There. This is a fact and we know this fact because of me and my work."

The sense of achievement is something I still look back on with great pride, and I'm sure when I look back on my life from my deathbed at some ripe old age [2], the moment my examiner said "I am pleased to say you have passed, Dr. Gaywood" will be one of the highlights.

[1] Those keeping up will note my CV features both a nuclear power firm and an arms firm. This sometimes gets me into trouble at dinner parties when I meet very politically left people.

[2] When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandad -- not kicking and screaming like his passengers.

Thanks Richard, that's really given me stuff to think about. It looks like I might have a spare hour at uni tomorrow (you what?!) so I might go and make some noises to relavant people and see what come up.

I'm resurrecting this thread from the ether as I'm going to take the terrifying plunge and apply for a PhD I found advertised!?! It sounds absolutely right up my alley; studying what I wrote my MA dissertation about but in a more technical, acoustics way, which is pretty much what I hoped to do someday, coupling my MA theory study with my BSc and professional technical skills!

So, I need to apply by sending a CV and covering letter. Would any kind souls like to send me copies of their CVs who have applied for/are doing/have done a PhD so I know how to approach writing a CV for this purpose? Also, any tips on what I should do in preparation for potentially doing this PhD? I rang the guy running it and had a chat to make sure that I am/it is appropriate for what they/I am looking for. If I get an interview I'm gonna do some snooping and find other folk who've had this guy as a supervisor so to find out if he is a good supervisor or not. I'm guessing I'll get a much better idea if I get an interview too; I can grill them about some things then.

Gaywood, if you're reading, you could be quite a bit of help. Your PhD sounds similar-ish to what I'm looking to do.

Thanks folks xxx

Yo. Really? Similar?

I'm not much help with the application process because I didn't do one. As I was already known to the department and my supervisor through my undergrad degree, I walked straight into the role.

You're absolutely right about checking the supervisor out though. Try and talk off the record to his current students. Also sound them out about the skillsets the supervisor is likely to have in mind, so you can tweak your CV.

Vaguely, yeah. I think this PhD I'm looking at is EPSRC funded too.


Git
That's the plan. I need to know he's going to be responsive and supportive, unlike my MA supervisor. I couldn't handle another supervisor like that, especially for 3 years!!

I asked him about that myself, I've been reading up on his background as well. His words: "It sounds like you tick all the right boxes", which is encouraging.

Why the sad face, hippy?

He's been like this ever since that big cannabis haul.

Oh hey I look after about 900 research students (in an admin-y sort of way, mind). Some of them are a total pain in the arse. Does that help?

I wanted to do a PhD, until I starting doing an MSc, and then I just wanted to get the hell away from studying and formal education and never go back.

But I did chose a bad course - it was at the uni I did my undergrad, and I could walk right onto it with ease, I didn't bother checking it out in much detail.

The obvious thing to say here is choose wisely. As other people have already said.

To be fair, comparing an MSc to a PhD (or even MPhil, to some extent) is a bit apples and oranges. Full on research courses are less formal, for lack of a better word. More independent, more freeform. As I've tried to explain to a few people who should really know better (I'm looking at you, Tall Supervisor #2), there is only one PhD. At the same time, each one is a unique, one-off course. You don't study a PhD 'in' something, like biochemistry or linguistics - you study your PhD.

The upside is that you can't get a shitty course that doesn't work for you. The downside is that without decent and appropriate supervision, you'll be lost.

Oh, and if you try to get sponsored (which is often wise), don't be sponsored by an embassy, because I will hate you.

A bit, maybe. I don't want to take it down too personal an avenue but it was during the research project part that I really came unstuck. The point was that it shows that making a poor choice followed by another can be a total drag. My supervisor just wasn't there, but I accept that there were failings on my behalf, too. The thought of dedicating many years to a project and all the after-hours work and stress really didn't appeal to me, especially after that. A good friend of mine would take papers to read with him on the rare occasion he would take a holiday during his PhD.

A lot of the students and post-docs I've worked with have been quite negative about it both during and after.



This is pretty common. I guess a lot of people just can't relate to it, and having never been told just make assumptions that it is more like a structured course.

But - good luck pupil.

I applied for a funded PhD place at my uni after I completed my Masters and they weren't impressed. SAD FACE.

I have no idea what I'm doing now.

I thought about it when I was offered the chance, and then turned it down, as I didn't want to be on the lab bench for the next 4 years.The correctness of that decision you can judge for yourself. I'd say that if you are interested in the subject, then go for it. But, don't do it as if you've got a shot supervisor it's going to suck donkey cock. But do a science one. Taking a modern feminist look at the Illiad isn't proper research, it's someone avoiding the job market.