Be Excellent To Each Other

While I was away on my honeymoon, a letter came to TheVision Towers from work saying I was going to be made redundant.

A bit of a surprise this as my boss assured me before I went away that I'd be alright till at least Christmas (technically, the business is on the wind down with a view to closing March 2012)

Anyway... When I go back on Monday, I'd like to be armed with questions/facts/twiddly things that I can get from my work.

Things like reasonable time off to look for a job, that kind of thing.

Would anyone like to add things that I should look out for?

How long have you been there, what kind of contract are you on and are you in a union?

Sorry to hear that matey.

I'm in the same boat. Do you have an HR/Personnel department? Because they'll probably explain it all to you.

Ask them the reasons; whether there's any suitable alternative jobs available; how long your notice period will be; how many more meetings you will have; when your final day will be; how much you will be entitled to as a payment; how much holiday you will have left at your final date etc etc.

Make sure you get a copy of the meeting notes.

I'm pretty sure that (so long as you've met the minimum employment term) you can't be made redundant while you're on holiday - so the notice cannot begin until after your return to work.

You're legally entitled to have a person of your choice present at any and all meetings on the subject, though note-taking, and having them sign the notes at the end of the meeting, could be a good idea depending on how likely you think they are to try and screw you.

I would imagine it's risk of redundancy, rather than redundancy itself.

I assumed 'going to be' to be fairly certain; though you're right, it should be the 'we are entering the consultation period' letter rather than 'here's your notice' letter.

The only experience I have is when Thermo closed the entire facility so did a protracted consultation, multiple individual meetings and so on. The most professional thing they did during my 7 years actually, and nice they harmonised the T&Cs to include an improved redundancy package and didn't quite give me a wink wink nudge nudge when I moaned about something minor I sacrificed in return.

Incidentally, you're allowed reasonable time off to attend job interviews. Reasonable time is two days a week I believe.

Your final pay will be a tax free lump sum, one week of pay for every year you've been employed as a 22yr old or older, half a week for every year you were employed as a 21yr old or younger. I think the same is for your notice period.

I've now been in the consultation period for 8 weeks. Still no sign of them actually giving me the notice.

The pay depends on the T&Cs - statutory has (had) some odd discrepancies; when it was my time, it was mostly 1 week per full year as you say, but with some random half year bits. Notice period is classed as normal employ, legally. I think.

Odd how fuzzy it is considering it was hugely stressful, took 8 months from announcement to termination, and only ended 4 years ago.

Oh aye, yeah. I was saying the legal minimum. TheVision may indeed have a more generous contract. The half year bits are due to your age.

I'm sorry to hear that chap, I was made redundant and it licked balls but it does get better. It's a bit of shitter to be sent that letter on your honeymoon.

The direct.gov website has good a redundancy calculator on it if you want to check what you're entitled too before your meeting.

Hope that you find something soon

That doesn't even begin to cover it; it's a cuntish and cowardly thing to do regardless of prior knowledge of things like honeymoons. It should be hand-delivered by your line manager and/or HR during business hours in a one-on-one meeting, preceded by a meeting for mass redundancies. It's just indecent to rely on the vagaries of the royal mail. What if they lost the letter?!

Edit: I'm quite drunk, so opinion is possibly flowing more freely than it should.

Thanks for the info everyone! It's really helpful.

I've been there 3 years so far and I'm not part of a union.

You're right though, the letter was an "at risk of redundancy" letter. The job is going from 4 people to 1 but everyone knows the bosses favourite will get that job. I'm not the bosses favourite.

2 days a week reasonable? That sounds good though! I'll be needing that I'm sure.

Totally... the fact that my boss made a point of telling me not to worry about it while I was away as I WOULDN'T be at risk really does get my goat.

If you can prove favouritism you can take them to the cleaners, if you want to. Probably not worth it. Being unionised makes no difference. If you genuinely think favouritism is at issue though, you should probably all accompany each other.

I suppose it's difficult to prove favouritism over "being good at the job" though. They could argue that the reason they're the favourite is because they did everything asked of them and were excelling in their field.

Yeah, that's why it's probably not worth it - it'd need everyone to be willing to stand up in court/tribunal and swear to the remainder being a layabout, worthless dick. Extra rocking the boat probably doesn't need.

Sorry to hear that mate. I'm working f't council so I feel relatively comfortable (*nervous beads of sweat as Unkie David Cameron looks over shoulder*) and so can't really offer any advice at all meaningful.

Hope you find something soon. And yeah, bit shit for the news to come on your honeymoon.

lololol

I'm working for the council. Or I will be from next April. Or will I?!

Ah, the joys of living in Leeds.

Really sorry to hear that. Here's the short "make sure you do it right" guide to redundancies from an employer's point of view:


Ideally, the employer announces to employees the rationale for the business changes, what they are and how it will be done.

They might offer part time work, voluntary redundancies or early retirements.

In 30 days, notice must be given of the number of redundancies, the consultation procedure and the mechanics of the selection process.

The employees will be met, and evaluated against the selection criteria, and the selection is based upon this. Individual consultation of the lucky employees is a good idea, as it can remedy earlier procedural errors, and show the scores to the employee.

It should be considered good form to try to to offer alternative employment within the firm, and an opportunity to appeal.


How much of that stuff have they done? This is a good starting point. And start looking through the yellow pages for an employment lawyer. And a recruitment consultant.

I'll write/copy some pertinent shit out out tomorrow for you when I'm sober.

Good morning.

How long have you worked where you are? You'll need two years service for the statutory redunduncy payment. The staturtoy payment is weekly wage * years of service * age modifier . The weekly wage is capped at £380 a week, and the age modifiier is if you are over 41 then 1.5x, under 21 0.5 and 21-41 1x. If you've been there for 3 years, and are aged 25, then the maximum is £1140.

Other small points:

If the reason is surplus employees, then your employer will have to tread very carefully. Bumping is not allowed (Employee 1 goes to Employee 2's job and Employee2 is dismissed).

When deciding who to make redundant, it's a good idea them to write the criteria down on a matrix, and score employees on that. Using a second person to do the same thing is a very smart move on their behalf, as it does have the potential to eliminate any bias (or, at least, appear to). Letting the employee see their marks and appeal is a very good idea, and can remedy any procedural errors made previous to this stage.

If they fuck up at any point, you could hit them with an unfair/wrongful dismissal action.



Best of luck.

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Just to build on what MaliA wrote above: A tribunal will expect consultation in terms of notifying employees of their potential redundancy, a fair selection criteria (which should be objectively chosen and fairly applied and selection criteria should be based on factors that can be objectively checked) discussion regarding selection and consideration of alternative available positions. It will generally be unfair to dismiss an otherwise redundant employee without taking reasonable steps to locate alternative work for the employee within the employer's workplace.

The employer will generally have to have all of this documented and a failure to do so may mean that "proving" unfair dismissal would be easier. So make sure you keep in contact with the other people if you are one of the unfortunate and consider your position with advice.