Be Excellent To Each Other

Rollicking good fun.

Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman make a fantastic Holmes and Watson.

Excellent all the way up to the:



bit.

I thoght it was OK. It might take a little while to settle in for me, but I think I saw too many shades of the new Doctor Who character for the character of Sherlock to seem quite 'fresh'. I also mentioned the lanocane powder bit to Craig, but I assumed that the piece was originally Conan-Doyle's and borrowed by William Goldman. Are the episodes Sherlock Holmes storylines, or is t just the characteristics and idea of Holmes and wWatson that are being used?

Excellent stuff. It's absolutely fascinating to have the same guy making 2 shows with the same character. We should give Moffat Quartermass and Quartermain too.

Also, superb to have

I'ld like to take this moment to once again point out that Moffat's modern reimagining of Jekyll and Hyde is also tremendous and well worth the £3 it costs on amazon.

To be fair to Moffat though, The Doctor and Sherlock Holmes are the same character. It's the great british super hero. Although as you say, it's a really, strange choice to be making them at the same time, there is going to be a huge overlap.

Can you explain to me a little - I haven't really heard of this. Sorry, I'm not too 'up' on this kind of thing and do not know who Moffatt is, but he is making two Sherlock Holmes series at the same time? Is that what you mean?

I said as much to the wife also - inconceivable.

House + The Mentalist only more English. What's not to like?

Oh, OK, you were posting at the same time as me I didn't realise that he also wrote the Doctor Who character. I think because they feel quite similar the Holmes character felt a bit tired to me from the off.

Is the best name ever, though.

Gotta go, but Moffat is writing Dr Who and Sherlock, and Dr Who was originally based on Sherlock Holmes.

(Or more accuratly Dr Who was based on Benard Quatermass who was based on Sherlock Holmes and so on.

Without rereading the books, that was an original story. The characters are modernised, but not massively so. The "three patch problem" was a lovely update from the original "three pipe problem". Watson was invalided home from Afghanistan in the books (clever reference, I thought) and was generally the one who



I'm sure "high functioning sociopath" was in there somewhere as well. Might have to read the books again, oh the horror.

When I say 'Dr Who' I mean the current Doctor - I know there have been many incarnations of The Doctor and the part has been played in various ways. I wouldn't say that this Sherlock character was like Chris Ecclestone's Doctor or Sylvester McCoy's etc, much like I wouldn't say that Matt Smith's character reminded me too much of the more 'traditional' Sherlock, but this particular Holmes and the current Doctor just seem to share too much to make tonight's Sherlock seem (well, I have used the word 'fresh' too many times now, but that is it) newly engaging.

I know what you mean.

The Doctor has always been Sherlock though, deducing things that we can't, solving puzzles and saving the day through thought and invention and not violence. He just does it with the aid of wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey stuff and a magic box.

Oddly, the Doctor is usually played as more "human" than Holmes, who really was a pure logic/deduction machine. The Holmes stories are pure logic puzzles, almost all dialogue and the enjoyment is the reveal. They never were about character, really. With Smith playing the Doctor as more alien, he is moving towards what Holmes is.

Oh.

I thought it was great, sure the Princess Bride scene was a little disappointing although if I hadn't seen the Princess Bride so many times, i'm sure it would have felt as fresh as the rest of the episode.

2 thumbs and a crack pipe up.

Never seen Princess Bride, never heard of Luther, don't care, LOVE Sherlock. All stories are recycled these days, as are all characters. Once we understand what stories and characters are for, this isn't a problem.

People should try watching less television if they find clashes. Cumberbatch is very, very well cast. And it is effectively three films, so we won't get bored. Happy days, something to watch on a Sunday.

Get out.

Just downloaded it, will report back. It's one of those films where so many people gush over it and one struggles to imagine it living up to the legend. I'm sure it's very good but it can't possibly have the same impact on me now that it did on others back in the day. Nobody falls head over heels for Star Wars these days if they've never seen it, however much they enjoy it.

Apparently, my wife (and by extension therefore, me) is related to Phil Whatsisface who played the cabbie. On the basis that I had only heard this once before, and he was neither invited to, or present at my wedding, that the proximity of our relativity is not suffficient to justify the seal clapping that ensued when he appeared on screen.

But yes - Matt Smith/Cumberbund comparisons ahoy. In fact, you almost feel that they both turned up at the same audition and Moffat, knowing he was going to make Sherlock, realised that he could put either in the the Doctor role, but Matt Smith was too young to be Sherlock, and the decision was made.

It's basically the sexual awakening of Fred Savage. By his granddad.

(stolen from a tweet)

Cumberbatch was already cast as Holmes when Smith auditioned for Watson, failing to suit the part and then later successfully auditioning for The Eleventh Doctor.

Might not bother then.

Non-political/news and non-sport TV I have seen this year has amounted to the new Dr Who, Wallander and one episode of Luther... I don't think that it is because I have seen too much TV



Craig didn't see it until a few years ago and it's now one of his favourite films. I don't think it ages like Star Wars does as it isn't reliant on special effects and so does not age in quite the same way. It is a great storyline with great characters and good humour, and I think you might find those qualities still make it very enjoyable. Also, it has Columbo in it

Spoiler tags, people! FFS!

I didn't watch a Star Wars film until I was 18. To think, the phrase 'Broken Britain' was only coined a couple of years ago.

Shhh, I haven't seen one, still.

I actually went to the cinema with a group of friends to watch the first one when they were re-released, but I was tired and promptly fell asleep after asking 'is this set on Earth?' whilst the legend 'A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away' was still scrolling up the screen...

The re-releases were shit anyway.

Yeah, but also no. A big part of what made the 80's ITV Sherlock series so awesome was Jeremy Brett's fantastic portrayal of Holmes. That show is right up there as one of my favourite telly things ever, ever.

I really enjoyed last night's Sherlock though. I felt quite disappointed when I saw that there was only going to be three episodes.

I very much enjoyed this. Cumberbatch was excellent in the Young Stephen Hawking Chronicles, too.

Thought it was great but The Mentalist has more episodes in a season so is therefore superior. Also his sidekick is better looking and feisty.

Yes, but with Sherlock, there is the possibility of seeing more of Texting Girl.

Good point, very lovely and a really bad memory = perfect woman.

Speculation:

I am absurdly protective and precious of the Brett series, and as a result, am naturally predisposed to hate any other attempt to make a film/telly series of Holmes.

That said, I can enjoy the Rathbone films for what they are, and also rather enjoyed Peter Cushing as Holmes. However, I would rather gnaw off my own feet than watch that recent abomination with Robert Downey fuckwit, but then I hate the actors in that, and the director (obviously now some of you will say, "Actually this was a good film, blah blah", but this will not sway me, and each to their own, and other such clichés).

Anyway... I had heard good things about this new series before it aired, and was always going to give it a shot, so recorded it and am rather looking forward to it for later in the week.

I grew up with the Rathbone movies - 6pm, BBC2, Friday nights. All of them, and when they ran out of movies, did the the Charlie Chan ones. Cushing did a very good Holmes, in fact most Holmes movies are decent. (I also love Young Sherlock Holmes.)



I'll be first in the queue to try then. It is much better than I thought it would be. Mainly because the interplay between Downey and Law is absolutely top notch. Downey is clearly having an absolute ball and there is a definite sense of fun.

The puzzle doesn't hold together on reflection, but you don't really notice. Guy Ritchie reigns himself in, Rachel Whatserface looks good. I went in with low expectations and end up really quite liking it.

I liked it even though I was sceptical like with the movie last year.

I should probably use this opportunity to plug my podcast - http://www.wenton.co.uk - as it's a Sherlock Holmes special this month. There's sketches and stuff, but it is just me and a mate messing about, don't expect it to be y'know, 'good' or anything.

I'll be next in the queue then. It's a great movie and probably a lot closer to the source material than you're expecting it to be. I went in thinking I'd hate it, being such a massive fan of the Brett TV series, but I genuinely really enjoyed it. It's one of those rare things where I'm genuinely hoping they make a sequel, as Downey and Law's Holmes and Watson were excellent fun to watch.

And I'll chip in.

I didn't like it. For some reason the, they decided to have constant camera angle changes during quite sedate conversations, completely ruining the feel for me. I don't know why directors have an obsession with closeups and angle changes, when zooming out and panning would fit some scenes much better.

I really liked it... I am also a big Brett Fan, and am currently re-reading the whole SH works.

I love the humor in Sundays episode, and look forward to next weeks..

Well I couldn't hold out and watched this (the new TV thing, not the film) last night.

Thought it was brilliant for the most part, apart from But then I think this has been commented on already in the thread.

So, very good indeed, but badly let down by that conclusion.

Very much looking forward to the other episodes though.

Better than I would have expected but not quite as good as this thread lead me to believe.

Sherlock was about what I expected and not quite as good as this thread lead me to believe. It was okay though.

Main problem: It was pretty drab to look at with all the darkness and that.

Pointless fact: I have eaten at that cafe 'Speedy's' shown next to 221b baker street. It's not on Baker street.

Cardiff Uni Main Building is not in London either.

and?

I'm guessing the scenes where the cabbie and Sherlock had their chat was filmed in Cardiff University's main building. When they were supposed to be in London.

Malc

Good point! Welcome, Yeti Man.

Nirej: For all the darkness, I did think it was quite well shot. And the text overlays were interesting, not sure if it'll get tiresome though.

I enjoyed that. I've never watched or read any Holmes before but am very tempted to start reading them.

I got the Holmes box se from the works, it s as it was printed int eh The Strand..

I tried watching a Jeremy Brett Sherlock a few months back and found it incredibly dull.