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 Post subject: Man not in coma for 23 years
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:50 
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Esoteric

Joined: 12th Dec, 2008
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Location: On Mars as an anthropologist...
Sorry about the title. I couldn't think of anything to sum it up.

Basically some poor dude was paralysed in a car crash and everyone thought he was in a coma.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20091123/twl ... d0ae9.html

For years :(

I remember when I was in my teens I used to listen to these tapes. They were like story tapes but really scary and freaky (ghost stories, angsty stories). One of them was about this dude who went in for an operation and they thought he had died. He could not move a muscle etc but his brain was still working. This reminds me of that.

God, I cannot even begin to imagine the terror that poor fucker went through :(

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Last edited by kalmar on Tue Nov 24, 2009 18:20, edited 2 times in total.
titled it


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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:04 
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Skillmeister

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Bits and Bobs this morning.

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:12 
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Esoteric

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Location: On Mars as an anthropologist...
Sod it. Sorry :(

I find it hard to keep up with that thread unless I sit religiously and press F5.

Someone remove this please :)

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:58 
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Pyrotechnician!!!1

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Probably worth its own thread to be honest...

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:24 
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Skillmeister

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Probably right, yeah. Terrible for the guy.

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:29 
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Hibernating Druid

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I bet he needs a lie down after this ordeal.

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:29 
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who leaves a person spazzed out on life support for 23 years? like really... get some fucking perspective. Even if you think he'll snap out of it. And to be fair he's paralysed to fuck so it was never going to turn out great for the guy even if he woke up after a week.

seriously, if I oversleep by a couple of hours I want my missus ready to smother me with a pillow.

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:32 
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Skillmeister

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Was he actually on a life support? When I saw it on the TV nyowz last night he was very capable of breathing on his own. But yeah, I'd hate to be quadraspazzed on a lifeglug.

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:35 
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even so... if I can't wipe my bottom, all I want to feel is the sweet release of death.

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:37 
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Skillmeister

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It's a good point. I can't wipe my bottom at the moment as I'm sitting on it and I feel quite sad.

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:39 
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Excellent Member

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I'm now imaging your missus poised, pillow in hand, with her eye on th alarm every morning.

Poor guy though, when you're in your early 20s your still very much someones child, who wants to make that decision? I don't know if I could do it, you hang on to every grain of hope in that situation, people wake up after 20yrs, its unlikely but it happens. Then it makes the news....then you have to wonder had you not flicked that switch, would your child be walking around today? Not a situation I ever want to find myself in.


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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:49 
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It's a horrendous situation to be in. Could he see, hear and feel then?

What's the betting he's on I'm a Celebrity get me out of here next year?

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:50 
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Skillmeister

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Where they liquidise kangeroo anuses to drip into his mouth?

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:57 
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Hibernating Druid

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No, they just get DLT to retrieve stars from his lower abdomen.

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:32 
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A somewhat interested counterpoint to the story: from James Randi.

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:35 
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Honey Boo Boo

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parm wrote:
A somewhat interested counterpoint to the story: from James Randi.


Shame the title (and indeed much of the article) reads like a Daily Mail piece.


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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:37 
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Pyrotechnician!!!1

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Dimrill wrote:
Where they liquidise kangeroo anuses to drip into his mouth?

And he taps out "shriek! aieeeee! stop! stop!" on his morse code tapper thing...

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:39 

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
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Dimrill wrote:
It's a good point. I can't wipe my bottom at the moment as I'm sitting on it and I feel quite sad.


The novelty wears off once you have a child. Take last night for instance: I'd just had a lovely crap and had barely finished before being told that Zioette had just shat in her nappy. So I barely had time to wipe my own arse before having to wipe hers too. It's just not cricket.

So yeah, 23 years eh? Fuck.


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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:41 
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MetalAngel wrote:
parm wrote:
A somewhat interested counterpoint to the story: from James Randi.

Shame the title (and indeed much of the article) reads like a Daily Mail piece.

Yes, is it a bit of a rant, and since it is so hysterical in tone then it is hard to give his viewpoint the credibility that it may deserve. Emphasis on "may".

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:42 
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Honey Boo Boo

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Congratulations, you've come out of your coma just in time to enjoy being old!

Alb1n0k13490487084uy5: Precisely. It's hard to think it's a properly reasoned argument when it's been written with froth on the tanned hides of his enemies.


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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:43 
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Hibernating Druid

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Zio wrote:
Dimrill wrote:
It's a good point. I can't wipe my bottom at the moment as I'm sitting on it and I feel quite sad.


The novelty wears off once you have a child. Take last night for instance: I'd just had a lovely crap and had barely finished before being told that Zioette had just shat in her nappy. So I barely had time to wipe my own arse before having to wipe hers too. It's just not cricket.

So yeah, 23 years eh? Fuck.


Having a Baby (and also cleaning up after your shit machine of a dog) kind of give you pooh immunity, don't you think?

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 Post subject: Re: This is horrible...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:50 

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
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Zardoz wrote:
Zio wrote:
Dimrill wrote:
It's a good point. I can't wipe my bottom at the moment as I'm sitting on it and I feel quite sad.


The novelty wears off once you have a child. Take last night for instance: I'd just had a lovely crap and had barely finished before being told that Zioette had just shat in her nappy. So I barely had time to wipe my own arse before having to wipe hers too. It's just not cricket.

So yeah, 23 years eh? Fuck.


Having a Baby (and also cleaning up after your shit machine of a dog) kind of give you pooh immunity, don't you think?


Oh ho yes. Before Zioette, I had a bit of a hygene OCD. The sickly greeny-brown paste she regularly squeezes from her bumcheeks very quickly beat that out of me.


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 Post subject: The Man in the Coma for 23 years.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 18:04 
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I forgot about this - how vain

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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What do people think about this?

I've written this behind a (terrible) firewall (which is why I post less thesedays)

It's located here: http://skeptobot.posterous.com/it-is-depressing-but-the-man-who-was-in-a-com

(ASIDE: basically, I'm trying out posting rough stories that haven't been fully researched and checked to this posterous account to a) be criticised and b) mean that I actually post something c) means I have to go back and correct any mistakes and so properly publish them and d) gives me something to do without a proper internet connection as I post them via email).

As I don't want to just link spam here is what I wrote:
Quote:
Firstly this is a story of a man in a coma, this story is wrapped in great human tragedy. It is impossible to appreciate the pain and suffering the family has been through and equally impossible to untangle those emotions from this story.

This post is written with the utmost respect for all involved.

The Telegraph, the BBC News, the Guardian and no doubt all the other papers have been enthusiastically reporting on the incredible story of Rom Houben who was thought to be in a coma for 23 years but was actually wide awake and conscious the whole time.

The story is so popular because of that morbid fascination we, the public, hold for such a literal torture. To be trapped like that is akin to Hell on Earth. It's also popular because of the thankful release for Rom. Quotes from Rom saying "I'll never forget the day that they discovered me, It was my second birth" can't help but fill you with elation for him.

I want to tread carefully here because I don't have full Internet access, as I'm posting from behind a firewall, but I think that very well meaning people are misleading others and, I suspect, themselves in thinking that this poor gentleman has regained consciousness.

I so want to be wrong about that.

Look again at the video the BBC has of Rom. What is happening at 12 seconds in? The helper is 'facilitating movement'. She supports his hand whilst he types.

Whilst he can't hold his hand he can make the tiniest movements indicating the direction he wants to move his hand. He can then make a tiny movement when he wants her to stop. Another tiny movement when he wants her to press a button. You get the idea.

Look at the speed and grace and control with which she interprets his requests. It is almost as though she is the one typing.

And that's because I think she is.

Firstly, "facilitated motion" is a technique with a huge amount of criticism behind it. Similar cases to this have happened and when the helper is present in the room the patient is able to talk descriptively about the events around him or her. When the helper leaves and the patient is shown or told some information, then the patient is no longer able to discuss that information when the helper returns. It is the most simple of tests and the most crushing. It would appear that it is the helper, knowingly or otherwise, who is typing those words.

Secondly, quotes like:
“I shall never forget the day when they discovered what was truly wrong with me – it was my second birth. I want to read, talk with my fiends via the computer and enjoy my life now that people know I am not dead.”

All these things require him to be able to focus his eyes. Indeed he is looking at the screen in the video to know which letters he wants her to press. The speed at which she types implies that he has good control of his eyes and focus.

I do believe, and hope, that a man who can move his eyes and focus on objects would have been able to get the attention of someone in 23 years.

This is not to say the FM can not play a role when people have lost some control of their bodies, but the dangers of it should be obvious.

This story is a very painful and heartfelt one. The emotions of the family and friends are real. And whilst I do so dearly hope I am wrong, at this moment I'm shocked at the way the media has reproduced this story in a way that seems to be purely so people can be fascinated by the chilling story with an apparent ill regard for the truth.

In addition if this event is too reopen the debate on the right to die of coma patients then it is doing so by indicating how easily we can be mislead.

Again, my thoughts are with Rom and his family.

This post comes from behind a firewall, I've not had full access to the intInternetr the time to research the story properly. I would love to be wrong. Please, please correct me. This is an on-line work in progress article. Rather than not have time to finish and publish I'm using posterous and a public sketch pad. Ideas that survive can get fully published.


TL;DR - A sad as it is, the man is most likely still in a coma. Facillated motion is a self-scam employed by people with hearts of gold.

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 Post subject: Re: The Man in the Coma for 23 years.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 18:09 
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viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5133

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 Post subject: Re: The Man in the Coma for 23 years.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 18:11 
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I forgot about this - how vain

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Goddammit.

Stupid new job intenet.

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 Post subject: Re: The Man in the Coma for 23 years.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 18:12 
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INFINITE POWAH

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Nah, Lave, we'll blame JC's shitty thread title for that one.

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 Post subject: Re: The Man in the Coma for 23 years.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 18:15 
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I will merge them and rename the result.
Carry on!


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 Post subject: Re: The Man in the Coma for 23 years.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 18:20 
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Part physicist, part WARLORD

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Dr Lave wrote:
Look again at the video the BBC has of Rom. What is happening at 12 seconds in? The helper is 'facilitating movement'. She supports his hand whilst he types.

Whilst he can't hold his hand he can make the tiniest movements indicating the direction he wants to move his hand. He can then make a tiny movement when he wants her to stop. Another tiny movement when he wants her to press a button. You get the idea.

Look at the speed and grace and control with which she interprets his requests. It is almost as though she is the one typing.


I can't even remotely understand how that whole process could be so fluid. Both the patient and helper would need superhuman reaction times to be that synchronised at that speed.


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 Post subject: Re: Man not in coma for 23 years
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 19:58 
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Ticket to Ride World Champion

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Also, it seems unlikely that someone with so little info for 23 years would know about computers and what they can be used for.

However, didn;t the neurosurgeon say there was significant brain activity?

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 Post subject: Re: Man not in coma for 23 years
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 20:27 
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Skillmeister

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The neurosurgeon said that the neural activity in the brain was almost completely normal, yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Man not in coma for 23 years
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 20:42 
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Unpossible!

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So what? I've not been a coma for 29 years. No news story about me.


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 Post subject: Re: Man not in coma for 23 years
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 23:12 

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