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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 18:10 
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Correct, that was a bad move. But you appearing and ignoring everyone to throw in a vote made you look like a bad guy. They still need to try a day without a vote, because they have no idea what the endgame is.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 18:11 
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Paws for thought

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If you hadn't voted out Benny, you'd probably be 0 down.

Interestingly, with only 4 people remaining, a vote is almost a guaranteed kill, as it's impossible to get two others onto 2 votes.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 18:12 
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Yep, and that's why if there's a bad guy in there, it should be pretty easy for them.

Then again, a countervote is likely also a guaranteed kill, as we saw.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 18:17 
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Isn't that lovely?

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paul seems to have some sort of condition (and I haven't checked this) to vote for someone who started the vote (or to not allow there to be only 1 light or something)

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 18:35 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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Mr Dave wrote:
If you hadn't voted out Benny, you'd probably be 0 down.

Interestingly, with only 4 people remaining, a vote is almost a guaranteed kill, as it's impossible to get two others onto 2 votes.
but Benny was inactive. I wanted to weed out the bad guy. I think i did. It is Paul. I should have changed my vote to him before time out.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 19:55 
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To be honest, I'm really fucking shit at these games, and everyone else seems to be able to detect who is "good" or "bad" really early on, and I can't. Any pointers for the future would be lovely.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 21:01 
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What's this bit for exactly?

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Playing as the baddie is quite enlightening, as you know what to look for when you are a townie again.
In this game, Mark was caught out as he missed the difference between the innocents killed. Any innocent should have been paying close attention to the descriptions as we are looking for a dead baddie - whereas a baddie knows beforehand so doesn't pay as much attention. Runcle didn't know what the innocents win conditions were either (which is why he went on my FoS list), but as a SK he wants to kill the baddies too (in case they kill him) so generally he plays as a good little townie.
In the previous game, I figured Gil as the photographer as she correctly accused a baddie, but the backup evidence from thread stuff was flimsy. She was dead right, but couldnt publically say why = investigator.
Power groups often give each other away in the FoS lists & voting patterns.
Stuff like that ;)


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 21:04 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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unless one of your power group buggers off on holiday!


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 21:19 
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Paws for thought

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Ok. Some maths 23 players. take away 4 proteges, 19 people. Assume all that remain are innocents

two situations: cop/phreaker/hacker count as innocents: 19 innocents

For half to survive, 10 innocents need to survive. 6 escaped, 4 remain. Win condition reachable so long as no-one dies..

Or they don't: 16 innocents, 8 need to survive, 4 escaped, 4 remain. Win condition reachable so long as no-one dies.

Say there's one role left, 15 innocents, 8 need to survive. 4 escaped 3 remain. Win condition not reachable.

i.e. Why the hell would an altruistic innocent vote now? Judging by yesterday, why would a selfish innocent vote now either?


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 21:33 
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So Grim... or the Doc IS playing as Richard :facepalm:

Bit of a bummer that.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 21:45 
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TheAlbin0Kid wrote:
So Grim... or the Doc IS playing as Richard :facepalm:

Bit of a bummer that.


Nope , its just someone who hasnt paid any attention until now.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 22:03 
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Paws for thought

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That vote was, after all, his 3rd post of the game. First one since day 1.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 22:12 
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What's this bit for exactly?

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Mr Dave wrote:
blah blah blah maths blah blah

Mr Grim says that the ones who got out can 'decide' if we get our win or not.
I think we can discount any innocents that didn't escape when they had the chance, as they are essentially committing suicide & we cannot be held responsible ;)
Edit: Suicide is still a 'crime', so they are not innocents any more.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 23:21 
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That Rev Chap

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People should have joined me in voting for him.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 23:24 
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Pyrotechnician!!!1

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I'm refusing to believe he's an innocent, because if he is then he's made Kovacs look like a Mastermind champion and it would be my duty to hunt him down and execute him before he can spread his seed.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 23:29 
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TheAlbin0Kid wrote:
I'm refusing to believe he's an innocent, because if he is then he's made Kovacs look like a Mastermind champion and it would be my duty to hunt him down and execute him before he can spread his seed.


I think he's an innocent , its quite possible theres a bad person in there (well bad in the way that its the Doc or Grim...) but no people with a 'you win if x number of people die'

An additional question for when its all over , the helpers win condition was survive , if there was no exodus but more than 1/2 the innocents were gone what was going to happen ?


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 23:32 
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What's this bit for exactly?

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If Grim/Doc do have a char, it's gotta be Richard...


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 23:38 
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Mr Dom wrote:
If Grim/Doc do have a char, it's gotta be Richard...

And given the name, I know which one I would expect to be playing him :D

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 0:11 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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TheAlbin0Kid wrote:
I'm refusing to believe he's an innocent, because if he is then he's made Kovacs look like a Mastermind champion and it would be my duty to hunt him down and execute him before he can spread his seed.


What did I do wrong?


Or you just poking fun as you left a day early, against your win condition?

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:15 
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Mr Dave wrote:
Ok. Some maths 23 players. take away 4 proteges, 19 people. Assume all that remain are innocents

two situations: cop/phreaker/hacker count as innocents: 19 innocents

For half to survive, 10 innocents need to survive. 6 escaped, 4 remain. Win condition reachable so long as no-one dies..

Or they don't: 16 innocents, 8 need to survive, 4 escaped, 4 remain. Win condition reachable so long as no-one dies.

Say there's one role left, 15 innocents, 8 need to survive. 4 escaped 3 remain. Win condition not reachable.

i.e. Why the hell would an altruistic innocent vote now? Judging by yesterday, why would a selfish innocent vote now either?


If theres 23 players, how come theres only 22 in the first day list?


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:40 
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There is a distinct lack of a Thomas on the first day list.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:51 
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Thomas was removed when we killed him at the end of Day One. Probably shouldn't have, I think it was me seeing what the vote counter did. However, the game also started with 22 players - we had a last-minute PM from someone and added them about four posts into Day One.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:03 
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Fascinating.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:05 
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I have no idea what roles the people that are left have now. If they are all innocent, I have no idea why they can't resist the urge to vote.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:48 
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superdupergill wrote:
I have no idea what roles the people that are left have now. If they are all innocent, I have no idea why they can't resist the urge to vote.


Probably because they are reasoning if theres still a game on then theres still a baddie to find.

In all previous games if there were only innocents left the game would have finished.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:54 
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zaphod79 wrote:
superdupergill wrote:
I have no idea what roles the people that are left have now. If they are all innocent, I have no idea why they can't resist the urge to vote.


Probably because they are reasoning if theres still a game on then theres still a baddie to find.

In all previous games if there were only innocents left the game would have finished.


But this game has been very different.

The ONLY sensible thing to do if they're all innocents is not to vote. So either Richard isn't an innocent or he's a muppet.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:56 
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I'm voting for muppets , the only one in there thats not at the moment is Paul


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:06 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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Yes but as there are baddies left it is never going to be a no vote is there?

I don't think the admins would have let us. We would really have needed to do this on day 1.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:14 
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GAME OVER.

Here were the rules, more or less. We tweaked a few things as the game progressed.

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!
Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?

Basic formula

We tell people all they have is a mobile phone. Posts are limited to 160 characters, posts per game day are limited to 20 and names of posters will be falsified.

The scenario

The last thing you remember is the sudden panic, the struggle, the rag reeking of chemicals clamped over your mouth and nose. Then... nothing. Until you wake up here. "Here" is a 10ft square cell; a cage, hanging in darkness. You can't see a floor beneath you, it's hidden in shadow. There is a dim light in the top of your cage, a tiny camp bed along one wall, a bucket in one corner, and a small pile of dried foodstuffs and bottled water in the opposite corner. The walls of the cage are made of up inch-thick steel bars, cold to the touch, and a few inches beyond the steel are mounted thick plexiglass sheets. The plastic is scuffed and stained with dirt and a dark brown substance. Air comes through a small vent in the ceiling. As your eyes adjust to the gloom, you begin to notice other cages hung around the space, shadowy figures in them moving around. You are not alone.

A loud beep. You start, heart hammering, and look under the bed to find a brand-new Nokia smartphone with a full charge. "1 SMS received" says the screen. Mouth suddenly dry, you click through to read the text. WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME?

The phone has two numbers in the phonebook. One for the credit check, "TWENTY SMS MESSAGES REMAINING, NO CALLTIME REMAINING" reports the computer. The other is simply labelled GROUP CHAT.

Design goals

This is half MafiaScum varient and half RPG. In traditional MafiaScum, the players can talk and talk endlessly; here, we use tight constraints on player communication (by capping each post to 160 characters and capping the number of posts each player can make per day) to attempt to build an atmosphere of claustrophobia on the players. In addition, the players will be told nothing at all about the roles in the game; they will know nothing, nor will they know who they are talking to, as all names in the game will be switched for codewords.

As written, the game rules were designed for around 10-12 players. Unfortunately I didn't tell Grim... that and before I noticed he had 20+ players signed up to play. This probably made the pseudonyms rather unmanageable for players; avatars would help a lot.

Voting Rules

Unlike normal MafiaScum, there is no "nolynch" option. At the end of each day the two people with the most votes -- even if it's just a single vote each -- die. The game ends only when there is a day with no votes. It's up to the players to figure out that the only way to win is not to play.

(Pundy totally called that within about ten minutes of the game starting: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5040&p=336518#p336518 )

Roles & Win Conditions

* Altruistic innocent: you are just a frightened, ordinary guy or gal, but you're not going to let this monster push you around. You want to help people get out of here. You win if more than half the Innocents survive the game.
* Selfish innocent: you know how this goes. When you're being chased by a bear, you don't need to outrun the bear: you just need to run faster than the people you're with. You win if you survive.
* Protege: the Administrator can't set all this up by himself. He has recruited assistants -- yourself, XXX, XXX, etc. You weren't expecting to wake up in the traps yourselves, but you know what is going on: this is a test of your willpower and your wit. Your master is giving you a chance to shine, to prove yourself his successor, and you must use all your cunning to ensure you escape alive. You win if you survive.
* Selfish protege: the Administrator can't set all this up by himself. He has recruited assistants -- yourself, XXX, XXX, etc. You weren't expecting to wake up in the traps yourselves, but you know what is going on: this is a test of your willpower and your wit. Your master is giving you a chance to shine, to prove yourself his true successor at the expense of the others, and you must use all your cunning to ensure you escape alive and all the other proteges do not.
* Hacker: sure, you're frightened, but there's things you can do here. You know how computers work and this smartphone has discovered a secured WiFi network. It's password protected, but you can work around that; beyond that you find a control network for the trap boxes you are all stuck in. It'll take a while to break the codes, but once per night you can trigger the trap for any person you choose, killing them. You win if over half of the Innocents survive.
* Phreaker: sure, you're frightened, but there's things you can do here. Once per night you can hack into the prepay phone network and give one player of your choice twice as much SMS credit.
* Undercover cop: sure, you're frightened, but there's things you can do here. Presumably the madman who trapped you in here doesn't know you have buddies on the outside. As a night action, you can choose any player to investigate; you'll be told that player's win condition and role details.
* Administrator: the shadowy figure running the game.

Note that compared to a normal game, the "mafia" element are hugely nerfed. They cannot communicate outside the game and have no night action. They can only rely on subterfuge and backing each other up in the game -- much closer to the in-person Mafia game.

Note also that, in practice, the Protege and Selfish Innocent elements of the game are basically the same. This is deliberate; the game structure is designed to pervert the usual MafiaScum rulesets.

ANOTHER NOTE: after Day One, the Hacker role was revised. Win Condition was changed to "survive" (which Malc didn't notice, and continued to play to a "save people" condition; hence his role claim and sacrifice on day five) and his night action became an anytime action. However, when using his phone to hack a cage, he couldn't post and the hack action took anything up to several hours from when he decided who to target to complete.


Edit -- complete list of role assignments were here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... c&hl=en_GB


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:16 
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All done!
Well done to the Myp and GazChap, our only true winners.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:17 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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so who were the last people?

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:20 
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KovacsC wrote:
so who were the last people?
They were all Innocents.

Bill was a Selfish Innocent, played by Joans.
Richard was an Altruistic Innocent, played by End of an Era.
Norman was an AI played by The Egg.
Paul was an AI played by Bluecup.

As many people had surmised (including Pundy right at the beginning), we would have ended the game and let you all go at the first day with no votes. We were worried that wasn't clear, but loads of people figured it out very early on -- and yet people still kept voting, which perfectly mirrored the Lord Of The Flies scenario the Administrator had set up. I am extremely pleased with how this game shaped up, it was a bit rough but could have been a total shambles.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:53 
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Why was Norman dead for a few days then?


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:53 
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Dunno. Ask him.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:58 
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GazChap wrote:
Why was Norman dead for a few days then?
The Egg is a MAHSSIVE TWART who found he couldn't get enough time to play due to some whinging about a three hour commute and getting married in three weeks. We gave him a few days to see if he could at least get the odd word in, but he didn't, so we decided at the end that he'd actually have been dead for a while as a sneaky way of admin killing him.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:01 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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I really enjoyed the game, best so far I think, just was aanoyed that I had to go to a meeting and missed a day, the fun day. :)

It was nice to be kinda of anonymous, was hard to watch my spelling :)

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:12 
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Isn't that lovely?

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I'm just glad I didn't sign my name to any posts. I don't think you guys realise how hard it was to do that!?!

Malc

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:20 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

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I did like it that no one was know, so you did not get any craster alwsays does this and Mr Dave does that..etc.


Cheers Doc and Grim... :luv:

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:35 
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Grim... wrote:
Well done to the Myp and GazChap, our only true winners.

It would have been very interesting to see whether we'd have made it to the end had Malc not decided to give himself up, though. If the roles hadn't been revealed when we all left, I probably would have considered asking to be put back in ;)


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 13:14 
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Thanks, guys, it was great fun. I look forward to SORE II.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 13:16 
SupaMod
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myp wrote:
Thanks, guys, it was great fun. I look forward to SORE II.

I'll need some convincing, to put it lightly ;)

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 13:28 
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Well, I tried my best to win and play the role is all I can say.

Sorry Kovacs, but my thinking was if I couldn't convince you that day not to vote then I couldn't on the next day. Best to get rid of you early and get a no-vote day as soon as possible.

But then Richard came along and that was it.

I really shouldn't play these games, I get in to it way too much.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 13:30 
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Bluecup wrote:
I really shouldn't play these games, I get in to it way too much.

Fuck me, this. What happened in the WeddingScum game was keeping me awake at 1:30am last night (after going to bed at 11ish). Where the fuck did that come from?

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 13:31 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

Joined: 25th Sep, 2008
Posts: 22646
Location: shropshire, uk
Bluecup wrote:
Well, I tried my best to win and play the role is all I can say.

Sorry Kovacs, but my thinking was if I couldn't convince you that day not to vote then I couldn't on the next day. Best to get rid of you early and get a no-vote day as soon as possible.

But then Richard came along and that was it.

I really shouldn't play these games, I get in to it way too much.


My bad I was convinced that there was still a baddie left, and needed to route him out..

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MetalAngel wrote:
Kovacs: From 'unresponsive' to 'kebab' in 3.5 seconds


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 13:47 
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Sleepyhead

Joined: 30th Mar, 2008
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Note to self: Never get stranded on an island with Kovacs.

He will eat you.

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 13:53 
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Master of dodgy spelling....

Joined: 25th Sep, 2008
Posts: 22646
Location: shropshire, uk
Curiosity wrote:
Note to self: Never get stranded on an island with Kovacs.

He will eat you.


yes there would be a good possibility of that..

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MetalAngel wrote:
Kovacs: From 'unresponsive' to 'kebab' in 3.5 seconds


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 14:36 
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Pyrotechnician!!!1

Joined: 13th Jul, 2009
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Location: Stockport
So how many innocents got out alive? And how many did we need for the altruists to win?

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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 14:38 
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TheAlbin0Kid wrote:
So how many innocents got out alive? And how many did we need for the altruists to win?
You lost when Kovacs voted on Day Five, I think. Mr Dave's maths up the thread is correct.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 14:40 
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Paws for thought

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
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See my maths post. If there had been no vote on the last day, it'd be fine. As it was Richard raised his head for the first time since day 1 and scuppered any chances.


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 Post subject: Re: "Wld u lk 2 ply a gme?" dead thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 14:43 
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Paws for thought

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
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Location: Just Outside That London, England, Europe
I am also wondering if this is too distinct from MafiaScum to go in MafiaScum stats.


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