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 Post subject: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 16:59 
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Whilst I appreciate the sentiment behind the argument for automatically claiming organs for transplant, I have to say I'm not at all in favour of this opt-out scheme being discussed in the news today.

I find something fundamentally disquieting about the State (and/or their agents) claiming my body and carving it up should some misfortune befall me.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:01 
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I have to say, I can't see any reason against it. Can anyone really come up with a justification why their organs should rot rather than save a life?

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:01 
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So opt-out then. What's the problem?

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:01 
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Also, you see loads of people saying "Well, of course I would donate, but it should be opt-in, not opt-out". They of course do not have a donor card.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:02 
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They could always wait till the greiving relatives can't decide and the organs go to waste...

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:03 
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Half our lots livers won't rot (if they're still usable), they're packed full of preservatives :D


I like this idea, I put off registering for years & only did it when I wrote my will.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:05 
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Craster wrote:
Also, you see loads of people saying "Well, of course I would donate, but it should be opt-in, not opt-out". They of course do not have a donor card.



I am on the donor register so I don't have to carry a card..

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:06 
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KovacsC wrote:
Craster wrote:
Also, you see loads of people saying "Well, of course I would donate, but it should be opt-in, not opt-out". They of course do not have a donor card.



I am on the donor register so I don't have to carry a card..


Yeah, sorry - I should have said "They are not registered". I thought the card was just a visual indication that you were on the register, so if you turn up dead they know to whip the good bits out straight away?

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:06 
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KovacsC wrote:
Craster wrote:
Also, you see loads of people saying "Well, of course I would donate, but it should be opt-in, not opt-out". They of course do not have a donor card.

I am on the donor register so I don't have to carry a card..

Currently, I believe that it doesn't make a blind bit of difference what you're on or what you carry. If you have a next of kin, it's up to them what happens to your bits.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:07 
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Well that sucks, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:08 
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I thought the register meant that your next of kin had the decision taken away from them...


Both me and the wife are on the register anyway..

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:08 
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I like the opt out idea. There are too many people who say they wouldn't like the idea of donating their organs. If they feel that strongly about it, the can opt out. Otherwise, they can not think about it and not notice when it happens. I'm sure most people would change their mind fairly quickly if a loved one was dying and needed an organ transplant.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:09 
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Quote:

Under current law, if you want to donate your organs after death you must make your wishes known.

There are a number of ways of ensuring your wishes are taken into consideration:

Discuss your decision with a family member. This is vitally important. The medical team will require their help in the donation process in the event of your death. Understanding your reasons for wanting to donate will help them to carry out your wishes at a very difficult time. The relatives of organ donors often talk of finding great strength from this process as it means that other lives are saved. (See the organ donation video in Useful links).

Put your name on the NHS Organ Donor Register. This makes it easier for the NHS to establish your wishes as quickly as possible.

Carry a donor card. The donor card was introduced in 1971 at a time when only kidneys could be donated. It's still a valid method but if you're not carrying one in the event of your death there's a risk that your wishes won't be carried out.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:10 
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KovacsC wrote:
I thought the register meant that your next of kin had the decision taken away from them...
Both me and the wife are on the register anyway..

Doesn't matter (and neither does any of that stuff you just posted, if you give it a read). It's up to your next of kin, which isn't going to be your wife if (God forbid) you are both killed. So the main thing you can do (like it says in that text there) is to tell your family.

These are the things they are working to change, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:12 
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Then the law needs changing...

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:13 
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KovacsC wrote:
Then the law needs changing...

First post, yo.

I think the way it actually works is that if you are registered and no-one can find your next of kin the doctors will take your bits. If you aren't registered and aren't carrying a card they won't.
If they have found your next of kin that next of kin is asked if they can take your organs or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:14 
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I am also firmly behind the hope that if I die and someone gets a kidney, or something, then I will be able to in some small part possess them and force them to say inappropriate things at dinner parties. Or just make them piss themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:16 
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Grim... wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
Then the law needs changing...

First post, yo.

I think the way it actually works is that if you are registered and no-one can find your next of kin the doctors will take your bits. If you aren't registered and aren't carrying a card they won't.
If they have found your next of kin that next of kin is asked if they can take your organs or not.


I know, I was agreeing with teh first post..

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:19 
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I want Crasters liver.

BeeX foie gras FTW!

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:21 
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KovacsC wrote:
Grim... wrote:
KovacsC wrote:
Then the law needs changing...

First post, yo.

I think the way it actually works is that if you are registered and no-one can find your next of kin the doctors will take your bits. If you aren't registered and aren't carrying a card they won't.
If they have found your next of kin that next of kin is asked if they can take your organs or not.

I know, I was agreeing with teh first post..

The first posts disagrees with the changes. Do you read a different forum to us? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:23 
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This cold is doing my noggin in :)

I agree that the law should be changed, but disagreeing with teh first post..

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:28 
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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:30 
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Grim... wrote:
It's up to your next of kin, which isn't going to be your wife if (God forbid) you are both killed. So the main thing you can do (like it says in that text there) is to tell your family.
Haha, "What if..." conversations are a nightmare, I've never managed to have a proper one without people freaking out about it, especially when organ donation comes up & as a result I don't know what will happen when I snuff my lid.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:31 
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I carry a Z card

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:32 
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kalmar wrote:
DBSnappa wrote:
I carry a Z card

I want to have Zardoz interfere with my corpse


FTFY


He doesn't need to wait till I expire :kiss:

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:37 
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The only potential problem with it being opt out only is that there will be examples where someone who has opted out gets their organs taken I bet, shit like that always happens.

I'm on the donors register, but not got a new card since I lost my wallet, will get one soon.

I had a business idea: Pay people a (smallish) sum on money to convince them to be on (my) donors register, then make people pay a (slightly larger) sum of for the organs.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:39 
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Also, has this "offensive on several levels" poster been shown here before:

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:46 
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LewieP wrote:
Also, has this "offensive on several levels" poster been shown here before
Don't think so, but it amused me. Also, she could do with eating a few cakes or something.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 17:47 
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I forgot about this - how vain

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Organ donation is for lozars.

Donating your body to science is what us cool kidz arae doinz..

Though it does mean your family won't have a body to bury for a few years, if at all - but at the very least you'll train a bunch doctors to save countless lives.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 18:07 
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Craster wrote:
I have to say, I can't see any reason against it. Can anyone really come up with a justification why their organs should rot rather than save a life?


Currently It's a personal choice. You decide that you want your organs to be used after you've died. With an opt-out, however, the State assumes ownership of your body after you've died.

Grim... wrote:
So opt-out then. What's the problem?


All well and good, except given the wishes of those who currently opt-in are not always followed what guarantees are there that they'll not extract your organs if you've opted out?

Also, I used to carry a Donor Card until I found out that my organs might not necessarily be used to "save a life". I don't particularly want my bleached skeleton, strung together with wires, gathering dust in some forgotten cupboard.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 18:10 
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Craster wrote:
I have to say, I can't see any reason against it. Can anyone really come up with a justification why their organs should rot rather than save a life?

The possibility that we still feel pain after death?

That said, I'm not opposed to the idea, and was in fact just thinking yesterday independently of this thread and apropos of nothing that I should become a donor.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 18:11 
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Nobody to donate you that spare lung you need?

Simply hire someone to kill some people with similar genetics - one of them's bound to be a match, and you will get to automatically live at the expense of all their deaths.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 18:13 
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Just looking at that poster, I'd favour a different way of getting inside her. A scalpel.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 18:24 
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What-ho, chaps!

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Quote:
I don't particularly want my bleached skeleton, strung together with wires, gathering dust in some forgotten cupboard.

That's not much of a change for most.

If I died, I wouldn't think that anybody would want any part of me. After all, clearly something wasn't working.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 18:35 
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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 18:38 

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TheAlbin0Kid wrote:
The possibility that we still feel pain after death?


I think you are missing the point of death here.

For me, I reckon it's none of my business what happens to my body when I die, because I don't exist anymore, I'm dead. It's not like I was born with a single atom I am presently comprised of and the odds are every atom of me now won't be me when I die.

So what's my claim on this shit, given that I'm not able to do a fucking thing about anything ever again anyway?

I'd love to know what percentage chance of 'saving someone's life' having a donor card actually gives me. To be honest though as long as someone other than an undertaker gets some kind of benefit out of my corpse, it's fine. Medical science, propping a door open, necrophilia - sky's the limit as far as I'm concerned.

If I was talking about my wife it'd probably be a different story mind you, and there's the problem, not to mention my argument for not letting the family have a say.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 19:22 
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GovernmentYard wrote:
TheAlbin0Kid wrote:
The possibility that we still feel pain after death?


I think you are missing the point of death here.

Is it to ease the burden of pensions on the state?

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 20:20 
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End of an Era wrote:
Craster wrote:
I have to say, I can't see any reason against it. Can anyone really come up with a justification why their organs should rot rather than save a life?


Currently It's a personal choice. You decide that you want your organs to be used after you've died. With an opt-out, however, the State assumes ownership of your body after you've died.


Very true, but I don't think that answers the question.



You know what's slightly depressing? The thought that the very best thing I'll likely do in my life might well come just after I cark it.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 20:25 
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Craster wrote:
You know what's slightly depressing? The thought that the very best thing I'll likely do in my life might well come just after I cark it.

Plenty you can do about that, bud.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 20:26 
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What-ho, chaps!

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 21:15 
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All this "up to the relatives" thing doesn't make much sense, given that there's no property in a corpse (which Mali researched for us a while ago on something else) - then the relatives don't own the body, so they cant, surely, legally stop someone from cutting it up into little usable chunks.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 21:32 
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Mr Chris wrote:
All this "up to the relatives" thing doesn't make much sense, given that there's no property in a corpse (which Mali researched for us a while ago on something else) - then the relatives don't own the body, so they cant, surely, legally stop someone from cutting it up into little usable chunks.


Consent is required under the Human Tissue Act 2004, I believe:

Quote:
The HT Act makes it lawful for donation from the deceased to take place provided that consent was given by the person prior to their death.

In the absence of their wishes, consent may be obtained from a person nominated by the deceased person, from a family member or a person close to them.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 21:45 
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Mr Chris wrote:
All this "up to the relatives" thing doesn't make much sense, given that there's no property in a corpse (which Mali researched for us a while ago on something else) - then the relatives don't own the body, so they cant, surely, legally stop someone from cutting it up into little usable chunks.

Don't forget that, legally, the person supplying the organs isn't always dead - just brain-dead.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 21:45 
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I'm not sure I could care less about what happens to my remains when I've ceased to be, much like I don't give a shit about the ancestry of the atoms I'm made of right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 22:05 
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Grim... wrote:
Mr Chris wrote:
All this "up to the relatives" thing doesn't make much sense, given that there's no property in a corpse (which Mali researched for us a while ago on something else) - then the relatives don't own the body, so they cant, surely, legally stop someone from cutting it up into little usable chunks.

Don't forget that, legally, the person supplying the organs isn't always dead - just brain-dead.


From watchings of ER, it's ONLY people who are brain-dead, and still kept alive with the aid of ventilators and stuff. So anyone properly dead never donates.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:38 
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Grim... wrote:
Mr Chris wrote:
All this "up to the relatives" thing doesn't make much sense, given that there's no property in a corpse (which Mali researched for us a while ago on something else) - then the relatives don't own the body, so they cant, surely, legally stop someone from cutting it up into little usable chunks.

Don't forget that, legally, the person supplying the organs isn't always dead - just brain-dead.


Brain stem death is legal death, innit?

Anyways, I'm more than hoping I'll get carved up and bits handed out to the needy and stuff like that, the remainder being burnt, mixed in with gunpowder and used in a firework display.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:29 
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Malabar Front wrote:
I'm not sure I could care less about what happens to my remains when I've ceased to be, much like I don't give a shit about the ancestry of the atoms I'm made of right now.

This is how I feel. I don't really give a fuck what happens to me. I'll be dead! If by some bizarre quirk I'm actually aware that I'm dead, what happens to my empty husk will be far down on my list of priorities.

I'll be fucking fuming.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:30 
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In other donor-related news...

Quote:
A SOLDIER died after being given a pair of cancerous lungs in a hospital transplant operation.

Matthew Millington, pictured, died at his home in Brown Lees, Biddulph, after receiving the organs of a donor who is believed to have smoked between 30 and 50 roll-up cigarettes a day.

Experts from Papworth Hospital, in Cambridge, the country's main heart and lung transplant centre, yesterday told an inquest into the 31-year-old's death that, as a cancer patient, he would not then have been able to have a further pair of lungs.

An internal probe in the wake of the operation pinpointed a string of problems at the hospital, including issues with communication, record-keeping and patient handover.

And in Mr Millington's case it was recognised that a radiographer had failed to highlight the growth of a cancerous tumour.

Dr Steven Tsui, clinical director of transplant services, who was not involved in the procedure, told North Staffordshire Coroner's Court: "In this case there were a number of failures and I did not feel the team performed to the standard I would expect."

The hospital now has new systems in place.

Mr Millington was serving in Iraq with the Queen's Royal Lancers at Christmas 2005 when he was diagnosed with a lung illness.

He was subsequently given two years to live unless action was taken. He received a double lung transplant in April 2007.

But he died 10 months later as a result of damage caused by disseminated lung cancer.

A lack of communication between radiographers and consultants meant it was not until October 2007 that a tumour, which had grown from 8-9mm to 13mm between June and August 2007 was detected.

Its growth was accelerated by the immuno-suppressive drugs Mr Millington was taking to prevent his body rejecting the transplanted organ.

North Staffordshire coroner Ian Smith discounted a verdict of misadventure or neglect, recording Mr Millington had died from "complications of transplant surgery and immuno-suppressive drug treatment".

The coroner told the court: "This is the result the family wanted and at least these days there is more transparency about the way things are conducted and we are away from the old days where things would be hushed up.

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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 19:03 
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myp wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Opt-out organ donations...
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 15:13 

Joined: 31st Mar, 2008
Posts: 6093
GovernmentYard wrote:
I'd love to know what percentage chance of 'saving someone's life' having a donor card actually gives me. To be honest though as long as someone other than an undertaker gets some kind of benefit out of my corpse, it's fine. Medical science, propping a door open, necrophilia - sky's the limit as far as I'm concerned.


See, I largely agree with you here, except for the necrophilia thing. Even in death I'd probably still make someone pregnant.

I remember my mum was slightly upset when I told her that, should I die, I felt that they could save money on a coffin and a burial by simply shoving me in a sack and burying me in the garden. Shove a nice flower bed on top for me to fertalise as I may as well do something useful in death. Maybe it was just that she was worried that I might do the same to her one day. Or maybe it was the whole 'fertalising' thing again.


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