Operation Flashpoint 2 vs Armed Assault 2

metalangel · **Posted:** Mon Feb 02, 2009 20:53

This year, both proper sequels to Operation Flashpoint come out, both on PC and (apparently) on 360.

ArmA screenshots here.

OFP2 screenshots here.

Armed Assault 2 is by Bohemia Interactive, who programmed the original game. Operation Flashpoint 2 is by Codebastards, who published the original game, and forced the plotline (starring Mr Darling himself) in.

ArmA has a real satellite-mapped island of 225km(2). OFP2 has a real satellite-mapped island of 220km(2). ArmA's island has civilian and wildlife populations, along with realtime weather and wind. OFP2 ensures any environmental damage you cause is permanent.

ArmA features the USA, Russia, and several as yet-revealed fictional factions. OFP2 features Russia and China. Except, Russia is losing and has run to NATO for help.

ArmA has 73 weapons, 167 vehicles, and more. OFP2 is likely very similar.

ArmA is likely to have the same variety of multiplayer options as OFP, plus a mission editor. OFP2 has co-op for the entire singleplayer campaign.

Unfortunately, more details aren't that forthcoming yet.

Who is my money on? I have to admit that I'm biased against OFP2. The ridiculous linear plot that was crammed into the original OFP by Codemasters really restricted what the game was capable of... it was only through user-mad mods and missions (like the sublime MFCTI) that the game's potential was truly realized.

I also look at Codemasters' current games like GRID and Colin MacRIP's in the DIRT and see really appealing LOOKING games and concepts, but actual gameplay that can't live up to the visuals or ideas. Bohemia Interactive, meanwhile, released an incredibly hardcore sequel in the form of ArmA that has kept the hardened OFP fans happy in the interim. OFP2 could still surprise, but I remain skeptical that it'll dumb down the hard details a bit.

Roll on ArmA2!

NervousPete · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 0:39

Looks amazing, though my compy won't run them. Bah!

Be interesting to see how far the M1 Abrahams outclasses rival tanks in the game. Apparently it's just a terrifyingly effective tank, and with a properly trained crew they NEVER miss, and get a kill each time.

Edit:

Seen both videos. I have to say OF2 looks more exciting to me, as it looks more like full on opposing armies warfare, whilst the trailer for AA2 looks more like quirky four man marine squad take on the world stuff. That's just an impression from probably misleading videos, I expect the outcome will probably be somewhat different. Also a little hard to shake the feeling the OF2 trailer is stupidly rendered 'demonstration purposes' stuff.

Still, whichever has the big armed forces and US forces thrillingly getting their asses handed to them on a plate stuff I'll go for. As it's a bit dull watching films and games where they roll over all opposition, and you're supposed to be upset over the death of moustache US marine after him and his three buddies have taken out 200 plus enemy troops. Massive casualties and thrilling fake news reports please, bring me computer gamey armageddon!

The Count of Six · **Joined:** 23rd Jan, 2009 **Posts:** 145

I might have known you'd be all over this, bumsexx0r boy, you always were an enthusiast.

This isn't even a contest IMO, see Championship Manager/Football Manager. The creative nucleus always trumps the license-holding, corporate residue. OFP and OFP: Resistance were two of the greatest sandboxy (loathsome phrase) games ever. I had more fun with self-constructed battles and mods than the campaign. I'll never forget the time I set up an amphibious assault on a village with a token enemy T-55 far away in the mountains to add spice to the defence. I disembarked from the landing craft, heard a massive crash behind me and turned to see that the boat had copped a direct hit from the tank, which obviously had better line of sight than I realised. Every man-jack in the squad except me was dead in the smouldering wreckage. Awesome moment.

Didn't play ArmA, was it any good?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Yo uknow, I've still not actually tried any mods or missions for OFP. I must remedy this soonest.

Anyway - re: the competing sequels, I hope OFP2 dies on its arse just for being deliberately "hahahha Russia are crap" with their storyline. They must be hoping for zero sales east of Poland with something like that. Ivan turning to NATO? Way to be provocative there, guys. Don't poke the bear. In Soviet Russia, the bear pokes you.

The Rev Owen · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:57

Operation Flashpoint memory:

Start level. Get into back of jeep thing with other soldiers. Get dropped off near enemy. Crawl through woods into open ground. Lie there for hours, too scared to move. Finally make a move towards enemy settlement. Dead.

myp · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:58

The Rev Owen wrote:

Operation Flashpoint memory:

Start level. Get into back of jeep thing with other soldiers. Get dropped off near enemy. Crawl through woods into open ground. Lie there for hours, too scared to move. Finally make a move towards enemy settlement. Dead.

That sounds almost exactly like World War Two Online, also.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

One thing OFP did miss in the campaign mode was a save function, given how huge most of the missions were.

Still - it's Real War, innit.

myp · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:41

That might defeat the whole point of it.

"You died, reload last quicksave?"

MaliA · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:43

"What if, in the real world, there's no respawns?" FPS Doug

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

myp wrote:

That might defeat the whole point of it.

"You died, reload last quicksave?"

That was what I meant by "still, it's Real War, innit". You're supposed to be getting shot randomly by some bloke you didn't see.

But it goes back to a long and boring argument I had with Gaywood ages ago about realism vs playability. You can have absolute realism, but sometimes that makes for a shit game - see "Airline Pilot Simulator 2000". Oddly I was on the "it should be real" side of the fence. I forget what game we were arguing about. Probably one that didn't let you go prone.

MaliA · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:50

Mr Chris wrote:

myp wrote:

That might defeat the whole point of it.

"You died, reload last quicksave?"

That was what I meant by "still, it's Real War, innit". You're supposed to be getting shot randomly by some bloke you didn't see.

But it goes back to a long and boring argument I had with Gaywood ages ago about realism vs playability. You can have absolute realism, but sometimes that makes for a shit game - see "Airline Pilot Simulator 2000". Oddly I was on the "it should be real" side of the fence. I forget what game we were arguing about. Probably one that didn't let you go prone.

I've often thought that Microsoft Train Simulator would be good fun, you know.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Mr Chris wrote:

But it goes back to a long and boring argument I had with Gaywood ages ago about realism vs playability.

It also ties into difficulty vs satisfaction. As I mentioned in the Dreamcast thread the other day, after more hours than I care to remember, I eventually managed a clean 9/10ths lap in Ferrari 355 Challenge (the game was hideously difficult if you never played it) and that was a triumphant gaming moment.

Games these days tend to be much more bite-sized (example: Gears of War and CoD, with their checkpoint save system) and we have adjusted out expectations accordingly. Few games require the sheer concentration over long periods like, say, Jet Set Willy did. Perhaps they are poorer for it, although I'm not sure it's a great loss.

SisterCheeba · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 260

The Count of Six wrote:

This isn't even a contest IMO, see Championship Manager/Football Manager. The creative nucleus always trumps the license-holding, corporate residue.

Hmm, perhaps not always. For all its flaws, I'm much more partial to Far Cry 2 than the original. And it's massively better than Crysis was. Struggling to think of more examples though. King's Bounty maybe.

metalangel · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 23:04

Quote:

I've often thought that Microsoft Train Simulator would be good fun, you know.

Yes, I own a copy. It's still the best, and will have to remain so as the sequel has been canned AGAIN by MS' costcutting program.

ATP (the airline pilot game) was good too... if anything it gave your flying a purpose... instead of just sitting there in your 767 and deciding 'I know, I'll fly to Minneapolis today!' it would give you an assignment. And you then had direction from the air traffic control to follow - changes in heading, altitude and such as they guided you safely to your destination. Landing after a long flight is as satisfying as DrG finishing his laps in F355 Challenge, and the sense of relief and a job well done as you pull up on the stand, flick off the engines and hear them spin down is amazing too.

andyb · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 489

There are lots of gameplay videos for Arma2 as it's now been released.

Looks like fun if you've got a PC big enough to run it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6TnEyrN55I

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

I saw the back of the box specs last night. Holy shit - looks like I won't be playing that then. Recommended is a 3.0GHz Quad Core.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

It doesn't look *that* fancy schmancy in teh graphics department to need that sort of oomph. Looks no better than the latest COD game.

myp · **Posted:** Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:43

Mr Chris wrote:

It doesn't look *that* fancy schmancy in teh graphics department to need that sort of oomph. Looks no better than the latest COD game.

It's probably the sheer scale and draw distance more than anything.

No sign of a 360 release? I guess I'll have to settle for OF2, then.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

myp wrote:

Mr Chris wrote:

It doesn't look *that* fancy schmancy in teh graphics department to need that sort of oomph. Looks no better than the latest COD game.

It's probably the sheer scale and draw distance more than anything.

P'raps. Mutter, grumble.

Quote:

No sign of a 360 release?

The Internet says later this year.

metalangel · **Posted:** Wed Jun 24, 2009 19:39

The internet better be right as I really don't want to be forced to buy 'Not Operation Flashpoint: Darling Rising' instead.

I suspect the huge system requirements are because of the sheer amount of AI shenanigans taking place. A game of MFCTI in the original might start off nice and smooth but by the time the AI players had their base and built themselves a nine man squad each, the game was CHUGGING.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Craster wrote:

I saw the back of the box specs last night. Holy shit - looks like I won't be playing that then. Recommended is a 3.0GHz Quad Core.

O RLY? Well, that's interesting.

(posted from my 3Ghz quad core PC)

Pundabaya · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5016

I own Operation Flashpoint. I played it once. Never again. It's just not fun.

metalangel · **Posted:** Wed Jun 24, 2009 20:04

Flashpoint is the daddy of soldiery shooty games. It's a day out at an airsoft place shooting people with replica guns. Call of Duty 4, in comparison, is running around a tennis court with a tree branch wet with what you don't realize is dog wee, shouting 'buddabuddabudda' ALL BY YOURSELF.

Pundabaya · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5016

I've done airsoft... I'd rather go with the tree branch.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Wed Jun 24, 2009 20:10

You'll have to wrestle it from my cold dead hands first.

metalangel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 06, 2009 16:40

Flashpoint 2 review is up on Eurogamer. 7/10, reviewer spends half the review talking about how hardcore it is, how you won't be able to turn around without putting your hand into a pool of mush that used to be your buddy's face, and closes with a particularly distasteful scene in which a dying soldier is offered a copy of the game as it could have warned him 'this is what war is really like'. And you can just picture a scoffing Nathan Barley-alike reviewer doing this in the middle of an Afghan battlefield, ignoring the soldier's pleas for help before hopping back onto his Vespa and driving over the soldier's back to go back to Shoreditch and shag his skeletal girlfriend, Jocasta, who is a handbag designer, actually.

Based on this review (and if a reviewer who clearly doesn't like or care to try to like the game complains about it, what does that mean for us?) the game makes a good attempt but is filled with bugs, is much less inspiring in singleplayer (though there is co-op) and feels like a missed attempt.

I was hoping I'd be pleasantly surprised, but instead it sounds pretty much like I imagined it: Codemasters thinking that because they owned the name, they could beat the original developers at their own game. I'll wait to see how the Flashpoint community reacts but so far I will confess to being disappointed, especially as there's still no news of a console port of ArmA2.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

ARMA 2 will only work on Gaming PCs^TM, sadly.

metalangel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 06, 2009 16:47

Mr Chris wrote:

ARMA 2 will only work on Gaming PCs^TM, sadly.

Seriously hardcore ones too... quad core is the recommended spec! Luckily for us, here comes one now...

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

That review highlight a really strange dichotomy in the game.

It makes a huge deal about realism and realistic fighting, but bodies (and thus ammo) disappear after 20 seconds and you can't close doors.

Makes it seem like it was designed by people who only worked on the bits they found interesting.,..

metalangel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 06, 2009 16:57

They complain about the bugs but some of them were great. Being able to clip through walls if you ran at them was useful, as it effectively substituted for an action you'd perform in real life (jumping out the window). Though clipping through the stairs as you tried to run up them to escape being killed less so.

edit: I've just read on Wikipedia that, apparently, in co-op mode you have to stay within 275m of the other player! Given the sheer size of the environments, this serious limits your tactical options (such as going back to grab more supplies or bring over a vehicle or something) and is a real buzzkill!

metalangel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 20, 2009 0:42

A guy has found that the PC version of Dragon Rising's editor is designed to export missions in 360 or PS3 format. Except, Codebastards have disabled it. Link

Another guy has submitted a complaint to the New South Wales Office of Fair Trading, claiming the game's features has been misrepresented in all the previews and marketing (such as the ability to do whatever you want, such as go for a nine hour walk from one end of the island to another). #post5742688" class="postlink">Link (page 4, which is where he lists all the lies, man, damned lies!)

And some hilarious bugs from the 80 page bug thread.

Quote:

When AI enter a boat, and you order them to exit vehicle they say cannot comply over and over. and will not exit vehicle. however if you order the AI to drive a jeep into the water, they will, and then they will not exit the vehicle and be killed.

AI players will not swim to shore when they are in a downed helicopter that lands in water. They will be stuck in water and not obey any order.

AI should have common sense when driving, example stop or not obey order if told to drive into water, or off a cliff. Or have waypoint automatically redirected so they will go on a "safer" route. around the water, or around the cliff. and not just straight line to location orderd.

While driving in the jeep I spot an enemy. I drive closer advancing on the enemy, assuming (naturally) that my AI gunner would make quick work of him. Well unfortunately my gunner does absolutely nothing as the enemy pumps an entire clip into the hood of the jeep. I ended up being killed while my fire team gunner did nothing????????????????

I ordered my fire team to mount a jeep. Then I scouted ahead only to find one of my fire team members following me like a lost puppy. How come they rarely follow orders????????????

Rarely I will spawn in MP games, and my view will be low, like chest height my arms and gun appear to be above my head, and when I look down the sight, my view is entirely filled with the stock of the rifle.

So once again I was driving in a jeep with my fireteam aboard. I came across some PLA, and engaged them. While sitting there parked, watching my gunner miss wildly while not taking any enemy fire, I decide to switch to gunner. I managed to kill all three PLA while they stood there motionless staring at the trunks of the trees they were two feet away from.

While playing, my combat engineer becomes wounded. I order my medic to treat wounded on the engineer, and the medic does nothing. 20 commands later and still nothing. I had to shoot my engineer in the leg before my medic would listen to my orders and heal him.

After ordering my team to mount a jeep, not only do they mount the jeep, but then they start driving it off to who knows where. WTF??????

While having only issued my team an order to mount my vehicle I drive to engage PLA, I then switch to gunner, and my team starts to drive around. Why do they perform actions they have not been ordered to perform???????

I love him having to shoot his engineer in the leg before the medic will heal him. Maybe the medic thought t'was just a flesh wound?

I do wanna rent this and see for myself, but by then, Forza and Borderlands will be out.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

Teammate AI very stupid in shooting game shocker.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

MetalAngel wrote:

A guy has found that the PC version of Dragon Rising's editor is designed to export missions in 360 or PS3 format. Except, Codebastards have disabled it. Link

Bullshit they have. They won't be allowed to distribute user-created missions for consoles. Look at the kerfuffle over mods for UT3 on the 360.

The bit that guy found in the binary editor will be there from when the same mission editor was used to create the game itself, where the 360 and PS3 are valid targets. But those options make no sense for a home user who cannot publish the content to the console.

metalangel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 20, 2009 20:30

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Bullshit they have. They won't be allowed to distribute user-created missions for consoles. Look at the kerfuffle over mods for UT3 on the 360.

The bit that guy found in the binary editor will be there from when the same mission editor was used to create the game itself, where the 360 and PS3 are valid targets. But those options make no sense for a home user who cannot publish the content to the console.

So, then, yes, they HAVE disabled it. It would be possible to create missions that would work on a console version, if Codebastards enabled you to upload them somewhere that a 360 or PS3 could access. I'm wondering if some enterprising haxx0r will take this to the next level, and make a mission and make a hacked 360 version of the game with it in, just to prove it.

But then who'd buy their DLC? Certainly not just extra missions DLC like they have planned, they'd have to release something that was a genuine improvement in order for people to buy it instead of just downloading oodles of free user-made missions, and that might take effort which they're already short of given the state the game is reportedly in.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

MetalAngel wrote:

So, then, yes, they HAVE disabled it. It would be possible to create missions that would work on a console version, if Codebastards enabled you to upload them somewhere that a 360 or PS3 could access. I'm wondering if some enterprising haxx0r will take this to the next level, and make a mission and make a hacked 360 version of the game with it in, just to prove it.

If they could get around the MS approvals and signing process and get stuff to actually run on the machine, I very much doubt their priority would be to give people user-created content for OF2.

It's nothing to do with CM disabling it, it's the fact that there's no physical way to output a level that the machine would play, and it's designed that way - by Microsoft, not CM.

metalangel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 20, 2009 22:47

That's bizarre. Firstly, why not at least let people submit missions, and Codebastards pick the best and convert them for consoles and put them up for download as a 'best of the community' pack?

Secondly, if user created stuff is so evil, how do Indie Games work?

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

That would be possible - the question is, how much work is involved from a Codemasters perspective in doing that conversion, and is it worth it to produce a batch of levels that probably won't be much cop?

I don't see what you're saying about user-created stuff being evil. MS have chosen to put in an approvals process to ensure nothing gets released on the console that they haven't vetted. One reason for that is the ratings system - some parent walks in and sees their kid playing OF2 with a mod that turns all the enemies into strippers, and who do they call? It'll be MS, not Codemasters. There's plenty of Indy stuff on 360 - but it XBLA follows the same (or similar) approvals process that retail does. There's no homebrew, of course.

metalangel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 20, 2009 23:03

What I meant by 'evil' was the message at the start of each Indie game saying 'this game has not been rated by MS - please file a complaint if it's naughty'. How is that any different from someone making a level for OFPDR?

The level editing I'm talking about is not about modding the game to put in strippers, for goodness sake. I'm talking about plonking down some soldiers, tanks and helicopters in various configurations so you can have a different fight. Hell, all it's doing is giving the game some co-ordinates for each object to appear at, the files will likely be tiny.

It's nothing beyond Codebastards being shit not including a mission editor. Forge in Halo 3 was fine.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:35

Twenny at Shopto.

Blucey · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2160

bah! my copy is still sealed.

Dimz - let me know if you get it and fancy co-op larks.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:49

I probably won't. It seems a bit too realistic hardcore to me.

Blucey · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 2160

Dimrill wrote:

I probably won't. It seems a bit too realistic hardcore to me.

Is that as realistic hardcore as Sick Of It All or more like Biohazard?

Dimrill · **Posted:** Thu Nov 19, 2009 13:31

Unfortunately it's Pro-pain.

metalangel · **Posted:** Thu Nov 19, 2009 15:08

All reviews finding the same complaints. The AI is hopeless - medics watch you bleed to death, AI refuse to obey orders, AI block your shots, AI actually shoot you. The missions are crap - you don't get to drive a tank or fly a helicopter, you have to follow the mission precisely (why make a huge open island then?), you end up killing your own squadmates to get their (better) weapons. PC Gamer shared my vexation at why they'd bother creating all this content and this huge play environment when the game doesn't use any of it - and on the console versions you can't even create your own missions to get around this stupidity.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Nov 19, 2009 15:09

Yeah, file this in the 'oh well' category for me.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

MetalAngel wrote:

It's nothing beyond Codebastards being shit not including a mission editor. Forge in Halo 3 was fine.

There are very good technical reasons why Microsoft will allow XNA and not allow a PC-based mission editor to ship missions to the 360 game, and good reasons why Codemasters won't want to write a mission editor constrained by the 360's feeble interface possibilities. Do you really want me to explain these reasons, or would you prefer to take it as read that your ranting is without foundation?

Choose wisely. There will be Wikipedia links discussing buffer overflow attacks, a discussion of Xbox1 hacking, a chat about the XNA API, and other fun stuff.

myp · **Posted:** Thu Nov 19, 2009 15:15

*kicks Meaty in the shins* No, it's fine. Honest, just fine. He won't say another word, Doc.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

When is ARMA2 going to come out on 360? When oh when oh when? And will it be any better than Dragonpoint Flashrise?

Mr Dave · **Posted:** Thu Nov 19, 2009 15:31

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

MetalAngel wrote:

It's nothing beyond Codebastards being shit not including a mission editor. Forge in Halo 3 was fine.

There are very good technical reasons why Microsoft will allow XNA and not allow a PC-based mission editor to ship missions to the 360 game, and good reasons why Codemasters won't want to write a mission editor constrained by the 360's feeble interface possibilities. Do you really want me to explain these reasons, or would you prefer to take it as read that you're ranting is without foundation?

Choose wisely. There will be Wikipedia links discussing buffer overflow attacks, a discussion of Xbox1 hacking, a chat about the XNA API, and other fun stuff.

I did write a fairly long post about this yesterday, but then looked at the date of the post I was replying to, and deleted my reply.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

you're ranting

I disgust myself.

Be Excellent To Each Other

Operation Flashpoint 2 vs Armed Assault 2
5 O'CLOCK! BMP! FIVE HUNDRED!

Who is online

Be Excellent To Each Other

Operation Flashpoint 2 vs Armed Assault 2 5 O'CLOCK! BMP! FIVE HUNDRED!

Who is online

Operation Flashpoint 2 vs Armed Assault 2
5 O'CLOCK! BMP! FIVE HUNDRED!