Be Excellent To Each Other

I am giving serious thought to buying a real drumkit, some tutorial books, and maybe paying out for some lessons too to undo my Rock Band acquired bad habits.

What would I want in the way of a kit? A five-piece basic rock setup -- snare, 3x toms, kick, crash/ride/hihat -- with silencer pads (they'll be a must in my terrace house). "Beginner" kits in places online are around £200-250 but I'm sure they are shit. I would imagine taking £200 out into the second hand market and finding a £500 kit someone has given up on would be the way forwards -- but how do I go about telling the difference between "reasonable entry level" and "downright shit"?

And what about learning? Apart from the patience and diligence, which is up to me. Just books/videos, or would some lessons be a good idea? Anyone have any particular recommendations?

Tama make very nice kits. You probably want a kick, one floor tom, two toms, a snare, hi-hat, with a ride/splash and crash cymbals. Perhaps only one cymbal to start with.

Don't go on tour with Metallica.

Seriously, I'll ask a drummer i know if I see him in the next couple of days (Likely, as he's the barman in the pub and it's Aunt Sally tonight and he's the captain of the team, and MrsA is going out) AND for extra added credit, I'll ask my sister in law if she still has her drum kit and if she will sell it for much cheapness, although you might find a MaliNephew/MaliNeice curled up asleep in the bass drum. BUying second hand is a good idea, though. Why not start with a snare, cymbal and bass drum and work up from there?

Have texted sister in law for you. Something I do not enjoy doing. That's how much you mean to me, man.

For a beginner, all you'd really need is one of the cheap starter kits. At the end of the day a shell is a shell, just get some decent heads and stick them on and it'll make a world of difference in sound quality if you're really worried about that, but just something to learn on, the beginner kits, unbranded ones are fine really. The cymbals are a bit pants, very cheap, so I'd probably reccomend getting so bottom range sabians/paiste/ zildjians to begin with aswell (probably about £120ish new) but then aswell you'd need decent stands as a cheap hat stand won't be able to hold heavier hats.
I was lucky in that I got an ~£800 yamaha kit for £300 off my uncle.
You're probably better off getting a half decent one if you want to take it seriously, ie a cheap pearl one or something like that (maybe around £300) as the stands will be of better quality and they can be expensive on their own anyway £30+ incases.

In ways of learning... books are ok, I was self taught from books up to a point, basically to get the basics down, but I dont know anything about paradiddles and stuff like that, that's where a teacher would come into it, the more technical stuff is what they are a lot better at than books, as it's easier to learn by someone showing you what to do and telling you when you are wrong.

Sorry if that doesnt make any sense.!

Edit: and you'll want a full kit, Snare, 2 rack toms, floor tom, bass, hats, ride, crash.... but some may sell a crash/ride instead of both.

Edit Edit: If you find any 2nd hand kits and want me to take a look at them send me a link and I'll tell you my thoughts

Get ear plugs or you'll end up with ears like mine.

My pal/drummer learnt the basics & then messed around with other drummers to learn different styles & techniques from them.

Bah! You don't need ear plugs!

I'm getting ear plugs.

If only to save your ears from your own voice.

If it's silence you're after, you could always go electric. They feel a bit different to an acoustic, and I'm not sure how this would suit a beginner, but I never had a problem with my eletric one when I used to have it.

Also: Silncer pads on acoustics don't work nearly as well as you imagine them doing. You're still going to be making lots of noise.

edit: also: it really doesn't matter what you get. As long as it has something for each limb to work on, anything will do. Go minimalist and just have a snare, bass drum, hihat+pedal nad possibly one tom. No need for cymbals. Depends on what you want to play tough :]

it just dampens the noise really, still loud(ish) but more bareable for neighbours

I'd avoid a cheap starter kit and buy a decent second hand one for the same price. Same with any instrument, really.

nickachu: all sound advice (arf), but I suspect the Doc wants something he can just buy and then play, rather than faffing around with putting different heads on, etc.

it takes a couple of minutes to change a head, Im just saying that the cheap kits, can be made to sound better with better heads... but if he's just gonna stick dampening pads on them, then it doesnt really matter, so a cheap one will be fine, as he can play it, and if he doesnt like it or whatever it isnt as much money wasted... I dont know...

Plug your Rock Band kit into your PC and write an app for it.

Is it the right time to mention that the GHWT kit comes with MIDI out? Also, there's already some drumkit apps in the Indie Games section.

the heads and the cymbals + stands are generally the worst parts of the cheap kits, ie you can bend the cheap cymbals with your bare hands. But I suppose if you do get into it it's something you can expand on over time, like get a new crash and stand this year... then a while later get a new ride + stand etc... then replace the shells.
If they've got ones for £100 or so in the freeads see if you can go and have a go, and have a feel of the cheapness and if it's acceptable to you may be the best bet, or ask in a local music store (yes they are bound to try to sell you stuff, but will probably be honest about the hardware and stuff)

IIRC dampening pads only stop a drum "ringing" & change it's tone, a bit like taping the heads. They don't make a huge difference to SPL.Well out Doc's budget by at least a grand but there's a local band that use Roland V-Drums & they sound fantastic, the drums sound meaty even at low volumes & their instrument & vocal levels are usually spot on as they know how loud the drums are going to be.

If you know what you're doing, yes. If you don't, you end up with a horrific sounding drum for hours of work.

Advice: Really, really Cheap. You don't know what you want, and you won't know until you've been playing for a while. No point in spending more than you have to and missing the target by quite some way. (For the record, I got Zildian new beat 13" hi-hats, 18" medium A zildjian ride, 16" medium A zildjain crash, 18" thin A zildjian crash, 8" AA sabian spalsh and 16" medium thin AA Sabian crash, and janus hardware. For the rest, I have a set of flats and an old tama kit. Aquarian heads, and vater sticks. Would I have gone for such a curious selection if I hadn't developed a fair bit as a drummer? Not a chance.)

Also cheap, because the amount of people who've decided to take up an instrument and find it's too hard/not enough time/repetitive etc etc after having spent too much.

As said, silencers don't silence the drums - mesh heads will help, but obviously not with the cymbals. Fortunately, I had a free practice area.

As regards tuition, I've never done it. Learned exclusively from hearing and watching other drummers. (See also: Bass and guitar) It seems to have given me a fairly idiosyncratic style of playing, which seems remarkably popular. (The consensus opinion seems to be that I bring other bands to life. Again, would I have ended up like this with tuition, hell no. Does this mean I'd recommend against tuition. Again no. Probably depends entirely on how musical you generally are)

I've got a friend who is a Grade 8 drummer. This is somewhat related to the topic.

LOLZ another 'Tom Tom' thread.

Nickachu and now Mr Dave are swaying me towards the cheapy ones in the freeads.

Maybe I should soundproof[1] the wall of my study that adjoins my neighbour's daughter's bedroom.

I've never been musical; this is something of an experiment in that regard. Perhaps I should buy the kit and see how I get on. I was more thinking of the tuition to undo bad habits I've picked up banging on the Rock Band toy kit.

[1]Put a mattress against.

Don't suppose you have any videos of you playing rock band so I can criticise gauge your bad habits?

Could you go see the neighbour and ask them is there any times they wouldnt mind you playing loudly?

Speak to the neighbour's daughter. Point out that if Gaywood is banging his drums, her parent can't hear her shagging her boyfriend, and then she will buy all the drums Gaywood could ever want.

http://www.soundonsound.com/search?sect ... ndproofing

I do, actually, but I don't know how much you can see. http://www.vimeo.com/4435936

I should probably talk to them about it, if only from politeness. OR! I have a really small room downstairs that used to be the coal house and a cupboard thing. It might just be big enough for a kit to fit in... and has the huge bonus that I dislike the nighbours on that side.

She's about five years old.

Postpone learning to play the drums for 10 years, then.

Don't write this app or the chappie might be upset.

Mmm, your grip may need a fair bit of work - it's hard to tell from the video, but it does look a bit like you're not getting the stick to do the work for you. (And as an aside: you play the song quite differently from me. There are only two instances in the song where I'd use both hands on the same pad.)

Dear God I'm glad I don't live near you.

Judging by the relationship your sub and surround sound has with your neighbours, I'm sure they'll be delighted to hear you have bought an actual drum kit too.

I predict you cropping up scowling out of your front window on an episode of "Britain's Worst Neighbour" or some such.

Dab of soundproofing and away!
\

He means the proper bits of rubber mattnig you get to stick over the heads and on the cymbals.



I think you would have done. After all, you can still learn from other drummers by watching them ,even if you're taking tuition. Also, what you play is down to your general musica ability, last time I checked tuition didn't change this, no matter how much fools like Noel Gallagher claim it will.



You're holding the drumstick like a club.
Quite a few famous drummers do it this way, but in generals it's best to use your fingers and wrist to stick the drum, only usnig your club like bashing for the really really loud bits.

http://www.google.com/search?q=proper+w ... =firefox-a

[delete me!]

As pod has (less tactfully ) pointed out, I hold the sticks wrong and I know it. That's one of the first things to (un)learn.

Yes. I learnt to play Maps on Expert when I was still doing most of the rest of the game on medium, so I simply couldn't manage the extra hit with the same hand; I know that's supposed to be done that way. So I resorted to bringing my hand over my body and playing with two hands. Again, bad habits.

Heh, that's cool. Has anyone tried it?

Yeah, works fine.
You really feel the kit's lack of a second pedal, though.

I suppose that app and a set of ION drums for Rock Band would be the next alternative. But, again, as far as I can tell from my research, cheap electric drums seem to be held in very low regard.

The best entry level drum kit would be a TD3k, in my opinion. But there might be newer, cheaper ones that aren't shit since I last played these things.

Zardoz is a pictorial god. I have nothing else to add to this thread.

They don't seem to exist any more. The TD-4k is £820. A little too rich for my blood!

I forgot to say -- I love the fact that everytime Zardoz 'shops someone's face onto something, he uses the same picture. Somehow that makes it funnier.

Back when I had my Topway drum controller for Drummania, I wrote an app (in Dark Basic.. woo!) that did much the same thing. The hardest bit was actually finding some decent drum samples to pinch.

Wow... A drumming thread that I missed!

Anyway, get a second hand kit out of the paper to learn on... When you're learning, you'll want something cheap and cheerful to see if it's something you'd want to spend money on.

I've seen people with massively expensive kits that just aren't proper drummers.. It's all about the natural rythym so if you can rub your tummy and pat your head at the same time, you're on to a good start!

As someone else said on here, teach yourself! I did and I'm ace!

As for electronic drums.. I recently bought a Roland TD9 electronic kit and I've got to say, it's the best thing I've ever spent any money on! It sounds far better than any drum kit I've ever played on and it feels just like proper drums! I'd definitely recommend them to anyone (providing they've got the money and are serious about buying electronic drums)

If you're ever passing, pop in! I'll show you how they work!

Passing where, Vision?

I measured up that small room. It's 1.4m square (well, it's a bit bigger down one end). The door opens into that space, so I'd have to turn it around. On the one hand, that's not a bad size to put a kit in, and it's tucked away out of sight. On the other hand, I bet the kit would be bloody loud in that small space.

That would be REALLY loud... Drums are loud enough as it is and I cannot stress enough the importance of ear plugs! It sounds proper wussy but I can't play without them.. it's just too damn loud!

It has protected my hearing though just in case I ever lose my job and have to fall back on my call centre skills!

I got a pair of ear blocking headphones for monitoring/ear protection purposes. Spend a little (Well...) to get fitted ones, and it's ace.

Hmm. Despite what I said earlier, stuff like this (assuming that's not total crap) is quite tempting. Sure, it's more £££, but if I don't stick it out I won't lose much cash on something like that; it would sell on for the same sort of money I imagine. And it's more compact and (obviously) more neighbour friendly.

Hmmm.

Edit -- good grief, the (admittedly cheap) ION kit for £100.

I used earphones in clubs, a lot of DJs do.