Be Excellent To Each Other

An interesting article about how removing all the signs and traffic lights and even the distinction between pavements and roads actually makes travelling safer and faster for cars and pedestrians:
http://features.csmonitor.com/environme ... accidents/

Might have the legs for it's own thread.

Very interesting. Reminds me of a open area in Rome where there was traffic coming into the square from about 8 directions but there were no road markings or traffic lights. Me and the missus sat and watched it during a drinks break and it was quite fascinating to behold.

Interesting article.

It was also interesting how in Turkey*, where there aren't so many signs and road markings were rare, nothing seemed to bother me. Slow vehicles would use the hard shoulder to let faster ones pass; you'd see coaches driving down the centre of roads in an I'm bigger so you're probably best not taking me on kind of way. Not a hint of an accident or twattish drivery.

If any of that stuff I saw there had happened here I'd have probably had a heart-attack. Yet there, where I got a a great sense of people paying attention and being considerate, I shrugged it off with ease.


*wait, John Coffey has been to America?

I'm pretty sure Turkey has one of the highest accident rates in the world. I'm not surprised either it seems to be a chaotic free for all on the busier roads there.

Does driving on the hard shoulder, or particularly, driving right down the centre of the road daring other cars to try and drive through you, not come under the heading of "twattish drivery"?

I don't know. It didn't seem it at the time, though perhaps it was me accepting that I'm in another country where the rules are different. Nothing seemed to be an aggressive, twattish manoeuvre, though — nobody seemed to react, and the overtaking vehicles would always move back into their lane when they were done.



Perhaps you're right, and perhaps my view wasn't truly representative (and why would it, after just one week). I can't find any statistics on this matter. Perhaps it's a completely different story in the busier parts of the country.

"Road furniture" (a stupid name for signage) has gotten far too complex in the UK, for sure. If you're bombarded with signage, you start to forget what the first signs were.

There's a road near me that has a fairly loose bend in it, if the road was a car length wider it'd probably be considered a "kink" in the road rather than a bend.

It has a sign warning you of the bend before it, and then a sign after giving you an advised maximum speed through the bend - 30mph (60mph limit on the road itself).

I've blatted through there at 80+ before now and the car doesn't feel the slightest bit unsafe through the bend. Admittedly, my car is made for those sorts of speeds, but I don't think even a little Micra would choke on it going at 60.

A few miles further down the road is a right bastard of a bend, almost 90 degrees and very, very tight, especially if you're on the inside of the bend.

No signs at all warning you.

I agree that it doesn't seem aggressive on the roads there, more fatalistic really.

I fucking hate this sign:

Could that be because it's slightly too narrow for two cars to safely pass at 60? If not then yeah, I agree that's a little odd.

I think it means that the wheels on your car will suddenly swap sides.

No, perfectly wide enough for two cars. Just if the road was a bit wider it could hardly be considered as a bend at all.

The signs that annoy me the most are the "X number of accidents in X years" ones. Not only do they take your attention off the road, but they seem to be statistics for the entire road and not just that particular stretch. So it's taking your attention off the road, to give you vague, general advice about paying attention for the whole of the road. Boggle.

In Bedfordshire they started putting flowers next to the road where people go too fast. Cunts.

[edit]Like because someone has died there (they haven't), not planting them

Someone knocked over a speed camera near us once, and some wag put a wreath on it.

I've read about the idea that having less road signs/clutter/one way systems would actually improve driving. I'm inclined to agree, to a certain extent. I think a bit of guidance is good and necessary, but at the moment in many places there is just way too much going on in terms of signs at the side of the road, above the road, markings on the road to pay attention to. Often I will go past a bunch of signs and only be able to take in what is on a few of them - and that's not when I've been speeding or distracted.

Not sure I'd like the kerb to be removed though, I think having a little bit of a boundary marked between the space for pedestrians and the bit for cars is good to have.

Incidentally, I lived just round the corner from a junction that was in the papers and on telly a few years ago as it'd been labelled the most confusing and sign ridden junction in the country. I'll try and find a picture of it in a sec. There were something like 30 signs on one junction, but it looked a lot worse in the pictures than it did in the car. Mostly because if you can drive decently you'd know to wait for a gap before pulling out to join a 3 lane 50mph stretch of road, and not trying to drive against the wrong way down said, very busy, 3 lane 50mph stretch of road. The Most of the signs were somewhat stating the obvious there.

It'd certainly make me a bit nervous in this country. I get worried enough using cycle lanes since many, many cars have decided to use them shortly after overtaking me.

There's a roundabout in Canary Wharf consisting of loads and loads of traffic lights. It's a deliberate sculpture type thing, but they all work and it's confusing as fuck to look at.

Has anyone seen that roundabout in Swindon? Those who have seen it will know what I'm talking about.

Yup. Driven round it many a time. There's some good ones in Stroud, too.

Yep. Posted that a long time ago.



Apparently it makes a great deal of sense if you're actually driving on it. I wouldn't know, though.

Yeah, the Magic Roundabout. It works very well, and is fine to drive on. Just keep looking right

I drove on it while trying to find the football ground and it confused the shit out of me.

Cardiff has this:



There are another two or three pieces on that same roundabout, also made out of signs.

That looks like an obstacle from Total Wipeout Wales.

Never did get on with 'we Katamari'

Aha, not the actual junction I was talking about, but about half a mile up the road, on the other side (Daily Mail article though *spits*)

Do we really need to be told when we should be giving way to other traffic? And don't get me started on a sign telling you about speed bumps on a completely different road to the one you're on. We don't need 30mph signs, either. Or Cycle Lane ones.

Well, yes. If it's night, on a country road, you're going to see a sign on a pole a lot sooner than you'll see the give way lines indicating there's a junction.

Or speed bumps.

That photo looks like it belongs from some bizarro-world where the dominant lifeform is the roadsign, and they're all just going about their daily business.

Shocking. I'm amazed anyone can take any of that in.

Mind you, a larger problem than an excess of signs is the familiarity that people have with their local area. They could put up new signs all over my local travelling routes (my house to my Mum's, my house to the shops etc.) and I'd never notice them because I'm so familiar with the road layouts that I ignore anything on the roads anyway.

Pah, kid's stuff. There's a Magic Roundabout in Hemel that's made up of seven mini-roundabouts. It's pretty intimidating the first time you approach it but, as you say, it's not actually difficult to use. Unless your sense of direction's as bad as mine, obv.

Yes, I guess you're right there. But on a road like the one in the picture?

That's completely different, and complete overkill.

I never even knew these were weird as a kid, there's one in High Wycombe and as Roda says one in Hemel Hempsted and I've been round both countless times.

How common are 'square-abouts'?

I've only ever seen one, in bookham, near ish to Guildford

There's a big one in London, on the North Circular. What the Hell is it called?

The Hangar Lane Gyratory?

(except probably not, but that's an excellent name nonetheless)

Haha, that's exactly what those sculptures reminded me of when I saw them.

Are they not quite near the docks Doc? I've got vague memories, but I was ridiculously high at that point of the journey.

They're sort of near the docks, I suppose. They're just on the other side of the railway from the prison and main fire station... you'll see them if you come into Cardiff along the docks road (Rover Way) as you then go through a huge business park and end up at it.

That roundabout with the traffic lights is outside my old office. Its great fun being down there when someone comes round there for the first time and they stop in bemusement. Its also 100 yards down the road from a double decker roundabout which is also very confusing for taxi drivers

The street furniture thing is a big issue in west london at the moment where they are trying it out over an area (copying the dutch, who love it). The blind are up in arms about it as they lose all their reference points - e.g. kerbs, bobble pavements, railings etc

That kinda makes sense in my head. I was heading from the airport to the docks via that business park as I ended up sharing a taxi with some suits.

Hanger Lane! That's the fucker.

Yeah, it's almost like someone already said.

Gaz: do you think that perhaps the photo on that picture above has been taken from a deceptive angle? I can't imagine all of those signs being in shot when you're driving along the road.

It is kind of a deceptive angle, but given the presence of the car on the right with the L plates, it's clear that the road layout is an A-road with another side road next to it (where that metal fence is) and the signs are on both.

I'd say that the camera's just been held up slightly, but regardless of how it's taken there are still far too many signs there.