Apple try to gag owner of exploding iPod

Dimrill · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:11

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol ... 736587.ece

Quote:

Apple attempted to silence a father and daughter with a gagging order after the child’s iPod music player exploded and the family sought a refund from the company.

The Times has learnt that the company would offer the family a full refund only if they were willing to sign a settlement form. The proposed agreement left them open to legal action if they ever disclosed the terms of the settlement.

The case echoes previous circumstances in which Apple attempted to hush up incidents when its devices overheated.

Ken Stanborough, 47, from Liverpool, dropped his 11-year-old daughter Ellie’s iPod Touch last month. “It made a hissing noise,” he said. “I could feel it getting hotter in my hand, and I thought I could see vapour”. Mr Stanborough said he threw the device out of his back door, where “within 30 seconds there was a pop, a big puff of smoke and it went 10ft in the air”.

Mr Stanborough contacted Apple and Argos, where he had bought the device for £162. After being passed around several departments, he spoke to an Apple executive on the telephone. As a result of the conversation, Apple sent a letter to Mr Stanborough denying liability but offering a refund.

The letter also stated that, in accepting the money, Mr Stanborough was to “agree that you will keep the terms and existence of this settlement agreement completely confidential”, and that any breach of confidentiality “may result in Apple seeking injunctive relief, damages and legal costs against the defaulting persons or parties”.

“I thought it was a very disturbing letter,” said Mr Stanborough, who is self-employed and works in electronic security. He refused to sign it.

MaliA · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:13

Why the fuck would an 11 year old need an iPod. 11 year olds don't have the resources to own that much music.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:14

Now that's one Apple Turnover with a hot filling!

TheVision · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:51

Do we still do post of the week?! If so, I demand we stop doing it to stop people posting bad jokes such as these!

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:56

Quote:

it went 10ft in the air

Bollocks.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16632

I don't know, if you shorted a LiPo inside a tight metal case which then popped apart I can see how that might happen. There's a fair bit of energy in there.

GazChap · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 13:15

Yeah, but 10 feet? That just reeks of "I'm going to exaggerate to make things sound much worse than they actually were and make it sound like my poor little daughter could have been seriously injured."

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

GazChap wrote:

Yeah, but 10 feet? That just reeks of "I'm going to exaggerate to make things sound much worse than they actually were and make it sound like my poor little daughter could have been seriously injured."

Absolutely :this:

but this is still very bad for Apple if there's any truth to it at all.

kalmar · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 14:16

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

GazChap wrote:

Yeah, but 10 feet? That just reeks of "I'm going to exaggerate to make things sound much worse than they actually were and make it sound like my poor little daughter could have been seriously injured."

Absolutely :this:

but this is still very bad for Apple if there's any truth to it at all.

What, a device with a li-ion battery goes pop? After being dropped? Out of how many million sold?

No, what's bad is trying to cover it up like that.

Although, we don't know the other side of the story. This guy might have gone in all guns blazing and demanding a big payout not to publicise it - the legal nonsense might have been in response to that.
It did say he spoke to an Apple "executive" which is a bit further than most people get with product problems.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

kalmar wrote:

No, what's bad is trying to cover it up like that.

That's the bit I was on about, although we'd need to be seeing some evidence of it.

Of course, this is far from the only iPod or iPhone that's been alleged to have caught fire and whatnot; although still a long way short from the scale of the problems that led to all those battery recalls in 2006-7.

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 14:28

A similar thing used to happen with the Microsoft unit. Early Zune units.

Over time the battery would expand and crack the screen. It didn't however explode and go flying, simply broke the unit beyond operation.

Microsoft realised the problem, did a recall and sorted it out. Was down to a bad battery.

I can't see how something could hiss and then explode with such a tiny battery in it. Sure, if it's inside a metal unit a drop *could* cause some hissing. But how something can then explode WHEN it's hissing (because the pressure is being released) is fucking ridiculous. Like an Aerosol (which has explosive/flammable contents) if you pierce it it will hiss. And, unless you expose it to a spark or flame that's all it will do.

So I cry BS.

kalmar · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 14:32

JohnCoffey wrote:

I can't see how something could hiss and then explode with such a tiny battery in it.

Have you done much destructive testing on cylindrical Li-Ion cells, John?
I have, and that's exactly what happens.

They vent a bit once in thermal runaway, and then once a critical temperature is reached, suddenly the whole thing pops, it can be quite violent.

Quote:

And, unless you expose it to a spark or flame that's all it will do.

The vapour given off isn't volatile, it's basically steam.

Quote:

So I cry BS.

It's BS that it jumped 10 feet, I agree.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

JohnCoffey wrote:

I can't see how something could hiss and then explode with such a tiny battery in it.

Bad Science Thingy!
\

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 14:42

It just screams lawsuit to me. Free money. Maybe it did happen like that? who knows?

I suppose it's up to him to prove it now which I feel he will have trouble doing.

GovernmentYard · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5318

Dimrill wrote:

Ken Stanborough, 47, from Liverpool, dropped his 11-year-old daughter Ellie’s iPod Touch

Cack-handed whingeing scouse knobcheese. He's lucky to get the offer of a refund. Try not dropping things in future, you spacker. Isn't there a thing in the manual that says 'do not drop', same as with other players?

devilman · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 14:44

JohnCoffey wrote:

It just screams lawsuit to me. Free money.

Off-topic, but that reminded me of this story of a woman suing the college where she obtained her degree because she can't find a job.

GazChap · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 14:49

GovernmentYard wrote:

Cack-handed whingeing scouse knobcheese. He's lucky to get the offer of a refund. Try not dropping things in future, you spacker. Isn't there a thing in the manual that says 'do not drop', same as with other players?

As much as I agree with your sentiments, I would imagine a court would rule that it would not be unreasonable to expect the iPod to break (or carry on working) after being dropped, without exploding.

GovernmentYard · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5318

I dunno man, this Li-ion business seems quite explodey. Also my innate and hard-earned prejudices tell me that the story would be more believable were it to originate thirty or fourty miles down the road.

kalmar · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 14:56

GazChap wrote:

As much as I agree with your sentiments, I would imagine a court would rule that it would not be unreasonable to expect the iPod to break (or carry on working) after being dropped, without exploding.

But what consequence is it exploding, if no injury was caused?

"Do not crush, puncture or short circuit" as it says on all battery labels. For this reason.

BikNorton · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 10173

Yeah, let's tar all scousers with the sweeping cack-handed, compensation-chasing knobcheese brush! That won't be offensive to, eg, scousers or people living with (one of) them!

I try to be jovial about it, but people at work are really winding me up with it recently, so I don't need to come on here to the same.

2001 posts - I demand some space opera* to accompany.

* Blue Danube? Yet more things I can't remember the name of! Ah, no, "Also Sprach Zarathustra", title track thereof.

GazChap · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 15:06

He didn't intentionally crush, puncture or short circuit the battery though, he dropped the iPod.

Now, if dropping it caused the battery to be crushed, punctured or short circuited then fair enough, but for a piece of handheld consumer electronics, I would expect a certain level of "ruggedness" to be built in.

Sir Taxalot · **Joined:** 5th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 4818

It's not even like he was deliberately chucking it up in the air and repeatedly letting it fall onto a hard surface

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 15:19

devilman wrote:

JohnCoffey wrote:

It just screams lawsuit to me. Free money.

Off-topic, but that reminded me of this story of a woman suing the college where she obtained her degree because she can't find a job.

My ex wife's cousin did that. Went to uni for about five years to be a teacher/professor then was useless at interviews. She didn't try to sue anyone though lol.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 15:20

To be fair, there's no mention of any sort of lawsuit.

kalmar · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 15:25

GazChap wrote:

He didn't intentionally crush, puncture or short circuit the battery though, he dropped the iPod.

So he says. He also says it jumped 10 feet in the air, which it almost certainly didn't.

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 15:26

GazChap wrote:

He didn't intentionally crush, puncture or short circuit the battery though, he dropped the iPod.

It could be said though that his daughter unwittngly (by dropping it) performed all three though.

Bottom line in this case would be that noone was hurt. Maybe a bit frightened but no personal injury.

Didn't think about the Apple bit too much but that seemed perfectly fine to me. What they were saying is "look, here's your money back and we apologise for the incident. However, we also realise that some parts of our society can see this as a means of making money, so we ask you to sign this agreement so that you can't go running off telling tales to the tabloids". And they were right to do so. Because what's happened? the cunt has gone off whining to the tabloids so it's pretty fucking clear what his motives were and are.

In the same way that a certain forum owner decided to see a victory over a certain publisher as means for going back for more. It's called greed. So fair play to Apple, who have a business to protect. Thankfully I think people will see this for what it is. Dropped Ipod, Apple offer the money back without the damage to their business, customer cops the nark and goes after more. Well I hope he gets neither his money back or compensation now. IMO, of course.

kalmar · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 15:30

There is possibly a point there.

Normally if you drop and break something, and don't have insurance on it, tough. If you manage to get the battery to pop in the process you appear to get a free replacement. So it might be worth an extra few exploratory drops, just in case?

Perhaps that's what Apple is trying to prevent becoming common practice, whilst continuing to do the right thing by customers who've had their gadget go scarily wrong.

Just like people putting towels over their 360s in order to get the winning RROD status.

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 15:32

977,000 hits on google for exploding Ipod. It certainly isn't an isolated incident either.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/a ... -iPod.html

Quote:

The lawsuit, which has been filed with a court in Ohio, accuses Apple of “gross negligence and recklessness” and of behaving “maliciously and fraudulently”.

The legal action has been bought by Lynette Antrobus from Cincinnati, who claims that her son’s iPod touch music player spontaneously combusted in his trouser pocket while he was at school on Dec 4 last year.

However. Enough energy to blow it 10ft into the air would have taken a serious chunks out of said child's leg. Not just burned him.

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 15:33

However through all those supposed hits all I can find is info on the Ohio incident and the Liverpool one.

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16632

JohnCoffey wrote:

977,000 hits on google for exploding Ipod. It certainly isn't an isolated incident either.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/a ... -iPod.html

Quote:

The lawsuit, which has been filed with a court in Ohio, accuses Apple of “gross negligence and recklessness” and of behaving “maliciously and fraudulently”.

The legal action has been bought by Lynette Antrobus from Cincinnati, who claims that her son’s iPod touch music player spontaneously combusted in his trouser pocket while he was at school on Dec 4 last year.

However. Enough energy to blow it 10ft into the air would have taken a serious chunks out of said child's leg. Not just burned him.

Not really, how much energy do you reckon you would need to expend to throw an iPod ten feet into the air? Enough to take a huge chunk out of a child's leg if you threw it at them instead? I can quite easily see the case giving way suddenly and one half of the ipod springing up into the air. I'm not saying that they probably weren't exaggerating a bit but it's certainly conceivable.

kalmar · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 15:38

What happens when the battery goes bad is going to depend on a variety of things too, such as what's happened to it (electrical problem or inherent problem in the cell or mechanical damage) and how charged it is at the time, and so on.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Bear in mind that Apple have persecuted a man by making every Apple product he has bought tell him he's going to be killed. No, really

:ninja:

JohnCoffey · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 15:42

Bloody hell my head hurts after reading that.

Dude has serious issues

GazChap · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 16:09

Sir Taxalot wrote:

It's not even like he was deliberately chucking it up in the air and repeatedly letting it fall onto a hard surface

I was waiting for someone to say that

throughsilver · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 6197

MaliA wrote:

Why the fuck would an 11 year old need an iPod. 11 year olds don't have the resources to own that much music.

She'll have access to Google and the word "Mediafire".

Be Excellent To Each Other

Apple try to gag owner of exploding iPod

Who is online