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 Post subject: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:51 
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We keep talking about this all over the place. Let's talk about it here instead.

Eurogamer have a piece on the forthcoming iPhone release of Beneath A Steel Sky (remastered with new cutscenes and stuff):

Quote:
[MD of Revolution Software, Charles Cecil, says] "When it comes to retail, everything is f***ed up, all the way down the line. If we sell a game in a shop, the retailer takes 40 per cent of the cover price, the format holder takes 15 per cent and the publisher pays us 20 per cent of what's left. That money has to be set against our development costs, so you can imagine how many copies of a game we have to sell to recoup. But on iPhone we receive 70 per cent of the game price immediately and we can sell direct to our audience. So we can charge a fraction of the price of a boxed product."

So is this re-release just a quick way to make a quicker buck? "Not at all. We've put a lot of effort into this BASS port," he explains. "It's not shovelware. As with Broken Sword: Director's Cut, we've added content that I think makes it a very justifiable and worthwhile project." That new content includes, amongst other things, fully animated cut-scenes, notable for being created by renowned comic book artist Dave Gibbons. In motion the sequences are beautiful, perfectly capturing the game's dystopian ambiance. But the proposed $2-3 asking price for the game isn't all being spent on new art and re-sampled dialogue. Rather, as Cecil is quick to point out, buyers are investing in the genre's future.

"Yes, you can jailbreak your phone and play the game for free. But if you like the game and like the kind of games we make, then pay us a little bit of money and, if it's a big enough success, we can reinvest the funds. We can start to look at a potential BASS sequel. You know, I think a massive part of the piracy problem is due to a broken-down relationship between game makers and consumers. There's no respect between the two parties anymore. So I'm very excited at the prospect of repairing the relationship. I think this is the model we'll take with our future games. If you like adventures and like what we write, then please work with us. We're looking at ways of including fans names in future games and so on. It's more exciting than ever before. It reminds me of the early eighties where anything seemed possible for smaller game-makers."


Interesting stuff. If his numbers are correct, for a £40 boxed 360 game, the dev house will get £3.50 ish. Whereas for a £5 iPhone game, they get... £3.50. No wonder they are keen on the iPhone.

I wonder how the numbers work on Steam and XBLAH.


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:07 
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I'm not paying £55.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:17 
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With the increase in RRP in that COD game, is there an increase cost to the retailers in buying it from the distributor or is the 'recommended' bit exactly that?

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:18 
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Yup, so any retailer who sells it for less is making less profit themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:19 
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The way I understand it the retailers can price it how they like, but they have to pay percentages on the RRP.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:24 
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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:25 
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I got an email from the hut today, showcasing their xbox 360 sale.

One of the offers was a £39.99 game discounted by a MASSIVE.... 1%.

Woo. Fucking. Hoo.


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:26 
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They should just bundle in a key fob in the shape of Soap McTavish's head and then everyone would be fine with the price rise.


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:27 
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I remember years ago when Virgin megastore dropped their full price games to £29.99.

I was working at GAME at the time and we did the same with all our games. That was when PSone games were expensive.. I remember Final Fantasy 7 being priced up at £44.99!


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:27 
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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:33 
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TheVision wrote:
I remember years ago when Virgin megastore dropped their full price games to £29.99.

I was working at GAME at the time and we did the same with all our games. That was when PSone games were expensive.. I remember Final Fantasy 7 being priced up at £44.99!


No! Games have always been cheap! I paid thre'pence ha'penny for CoD4, and were happy wi't.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:36 
Curiosity wrote:
TheVision wrote:
I remember years ago when Virgin megastore dropped their full price games to £29.99.

I was working at GAME at the time and we did the same with all our games. That was when PSone games were expensive.. I remember Final Fantasy 7 being priced up at £44.99!


No! Games have always been cheap! I paid thre'pence ha'penny for CoD4, and were happy wi't.


Bollocks! Im pretty sure I paid £44.99 for MGS2 many years ago.


I can't imagine you resisting to purchase MW2


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:37 
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I think you're missing a significant amount of wind-up, here.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:38 
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Curiosity wrote:
TheVision wrote:
I remember years ago when Virgin megastore dropped their full price games to £29.99.

I was working at GAME at the time and we did the same with all our games. That was when PSone games were expensive.. I remember Final Fantasy 7 being priced up at £44.99!


No! Games have always been cheap! I paid thre'pence ha'penny for CoD4, and were happy wi't.


I waited for COD4 to get cheaper but eventually I paid £18 for a copy on Ebay, played through single player and a few days after completing it, someone bought it from my site for about the same price. Didn't bother replacing it though.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 13:06 
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Where do shops get their stock from for games? is it direct from the publisher? How do these small ebay shops get stock? How could I get this game for wholesale price?

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 13:07 

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Bobbyaro wrote:
Where do shops get their stock from for games? is it direct from the publisher? How do these small ebay shops get stock? How could I get this game for wholesale price?

http://www.gem.co.uk/


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 14:00 
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Dudley wrote:
http://www.gem.co.uk/


About Us wrote:
Gem provide our partners with end to end integrated supply chain solutions and added value distribution to the retail channel for software, peripheral and connected home technologies.


Stop letting your marketing people write for your web site!


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 14:05 
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Malabar Front wrote:
Dudley wrote:
http://www.gem.co.uk/


About Us wrote:
Gem provide our partners with end to end integrated supply chain solutions and added value distribution to the retail channel for software, peripheral and connected home technologies.


Stop letting your marketing people write for your web site!


Translated as 'We sell games and stuff to shops!'

Most of the new text I have to build the company website with starts 'Lorem Ipsum...'

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 14:15 
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devilman wrote:
Most of the new text I have to build the company website with starts 'Lorem Ipsum...'


Heh. I know that all too well.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 14:43 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Quote:
[MD of Revolution Software, Charles Cecil, says]...the retailer takes 40 per cent of the cover price,



Actually, if the UK is anything like Canada, the distributor probably takes 35% and the retailer 5%.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 14:55 
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I am confused, those prices are more expensive than Amazon.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 14:58 
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Amazon? They charge you postage, man! I wouldn't pay that.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 15:13 
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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 15:35 
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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 15:41 
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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 15:46 
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Some interesting context from Eurogamer source 1 & source 2.


People always mention how gaming is recession proof. Maybe that isn't the case so much now:

For this quarter - worldwide - number sold (not revenue):
PS3 sales: down 0.5m to 1.1m
PSP sales: down 2.4m to 1.3m
PS2 sales: 1.6m (i.e. selling better than either of the 'new' consoles.)
PS3 software: down 8m to 15m
PSP software: down 3m to 8m.
PS2 software down 11m to 8m

Wii sales: down by over2.2m to 2.2m
DS sales: down 1m to 5.97m
DS software down 8m to 29m
Wii software down 9m to 31m

Before, we put them down to those consoles being shit, we can see that whilst nothing is clear for the 360 for the last quarter apart from this

"In the last quarter alone, gaming revenues were down by 12 per cent ($110 million), "primarily as a result of decreased Xbox 360 console sales" and again, price cuts"

So I guess the outlook is, they are loosing their more infrequent gamers during et recession, and only the obsessed remain. So lets squeeze them for more to make up the shortfall.

Which might be the right approach. Might not.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 16:28 
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"In the last quarter alone, gaming revenues were down by 12 per cent ($110 million), "primarily as a result of decreased Xbox 360 console sales" and again, price cuts"

Note console sales. How much of this is due to MS actually getting a product which doesn't break every two weeks, so people don't keep having to replace them and market saturation?

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:27 
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From my own personal experience I would have to say that surely Xbox games sales have been hit? I used to buy at least one new game a month but now I can't remember the last time I paid cash monies for a game. Goozex has been seeing me through, and I have been (attempting) to play through the pile of games I have but have never completed.
I'd imagine there must be a fair amount of other people who have seen console games drop to the bottom of thier 'must buy' list?

As for paying £55 for a game- I really would rather not so when MW2 comes out I will have a wee look around to see who has the best price, however I want the game and I get much more play time out of CoD than any other game I buy so I could justify paying the full price. I don't know of many other titles that could get away with this though and I'm sure if they tried to then sales would reflect that so I'm not too bothered.


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:13 
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A thought experiment.

Suppose every game came on a disk like present, but with a packed-in unlock code. Without the code, you just get a demo -- the first level or something of the game. With the code, you get the full game, as you would receive today. Obviously you can resell the disk but not the code. The codes are individually sold on the Marketplace for people who buy a second hand disk.

How cheap would a £40 brand-new game you really want have to get before you'd buy a game like that? And how much would you pay for the codes from the Marketplace?


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:13 
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I'd pay more if it didn't come with a disk.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:18 
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Grim... wrote:
I'd pay more if it didn't come with a disk.
Fair enough, but not the question I asked. I am considering halfway house solutions we might see between now and whatever day we all just download games and Game/Gamestation go out of business.


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:22 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
I am considering halfway house solutions we might see between now and whatever day we all just download games and Game/Gamestation go out of business.

The games can obviously be digitally distributed but we will always need somewhere to buy hardware.

Just thought about the poor old DVD production plants themselves taking a big hit on this too, with more and more films and games going digi.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:23 
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Zardoz wrote:
The games can obviously be digitally distributed but we will always need somewhere to buy hardware.
Margins on hardware sales are very slim though -- too slim to support an entire shop dedicated to it. I would expect hardware to only be sold in places that do other sales too, like HMV, or Asda.


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:29 
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But if the stores aren't making money by selling games they'll tell the big three to GTFF if they can't make a decent wedge off the consoles.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:40 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Zardoz wrote:
The games can obviously be digitally distributed but we will always need somewhere to buy hardware.
Margins on hardware sales are very slim though -- too slim to support an entire shop dedicated to it. I would expect hardware to only be sold in places that do other sales too, like HMV, or Asda.


If by then everything is being downloaded and there's no margin in hardware, then I'm not sure HMV stores will be selling a lot of anything!

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:35 
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Meanwhile, in another retail sector, second hand booksellers are angry that Oxfam undercut them. The parallels with the second hand games market are striking.


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:36 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Meanwhile, in another retail sector, second hand booksellers are angry that Oxfam undercut them. The parallels with the second hand games market are striking.

Agreed. I'm not paying £55 for a book.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:40 
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Doctor Glyndwr wrote:
Meanwhile, in another retail sector, second hand booksellers are angry that Oxfam undercut them. The parallels with the second hand games market are striking.


Apart from the advantages afforded to Oxfam and other charity shops mentioned in the story, you'd have thought the main advantage of going to a dedicated bookshop is the quality (the content, rather than the condition) of the books available. For example, you're unlikely to find a useful computer book in most charity shops as it's usually programming in something archaic or about software that's long since been superseded. Yeah, it might still sell, but it's hardly taken a sale away from a 'proper' bookshop.

I suppose at least Oxfam do categorise their books - the others round here tend to have just shelves of assorted books so finding something specific would be nigh on impossible.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 14:07 
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The second hand books man doesn't really make it clear that they have a restocking cost of virtually nil, as they get most of their stocks from house clearances where they pay about £5 to empty all the shelves as the relatives aren't really in the frame of mind to drive a bargain.


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 14:13 
One thing Ive seen looking at the prices of ashes 09 online is that game are charging 44.99 for pre-orders of MW2
And 54.99 for pre-orders of Forza 3.


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 14:15 
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nickachu wrote:
One thing Ive seen looking at the prices of ashes 09 online is that game are charging 44.99 for pre-orders of MW2
And 54.99 for pre-orders of Forza 3.

This is the point that I think Gaywood's trying to make. There's no way he's paying £55 for those games.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 14:18 
myp wrote:
nickachu wrote:
One thing Ive seen looking at the prices of ashes 09 online is that game are charging 44.99 for pre-orders of MW2
And 54.99 for pre-orders of Forza 3.

This is the point that I think Gaywood's trying to make. There's no way he's paying £55 for those games.


The thing is, it depends on the person, as I said before I'd pay 55 for MW2 mainly due to the enjoyment I got out of the last MW game. But I've got forza and hardly played it,so couldnt justify paying 55 for something I wouldn't play.
But you can always wait until the prices of these games drop, or pick them up 2nd hand for about 30 a few weeks after release


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 14:57 
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People actually buy new games? Flash bastards.

God, I really am a cheapskate... first the pizza epiphany, now this ?:| Apart from GTA4 which came with the console, the only game I bought new for Xbox was Rock Band 2.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 17:39 
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I had a pre-order spree last night. Using the extra 10% off voucher on The Hut I ordered Assassin's Creed 2, Halo: ODST and Dead Rising 2, all for 84 quid. The way I like to look at it is that I pre-ordered 2 at regular price and got Dead Rising 2 free.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 17:41 
When is AC2 due?


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 17:42 
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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 17:43 
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20th of November, I believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 17:44 
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Dimrill wrote:
I had a pre-order spree last night. Using the extra 10% off voucher on The Hut I ordered Assassin's Creed 2, Halo: ODST and Dead Rising 2, all for 84 quid. The way I like to look at it is that I pre-ordered 2 at regular price and got Dead Rising 2 free.

With DR2 being free, I guess, seeing as you hated the first game.

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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 17:45 
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Dimrill wrote:
I had a pre-order spree last night. Using the extra 10% off voucher on The Hut I ordered Assassin's Creed 2, Halo: ODST and Dead Rising 2, all for 84 quid. The way I like to look at it is that I pre-ordered 2 at regular price and got Dead Rising 2 free.


£84 for that bag of wank?

Dead Rising was shit, Assassins Creed was okay but incredibly repetitive, and ODST is a jazzed up Halo 3 expansion pack, without proper story-mode co-op.

£55 for Modern Warfare 2 is looking like a fucking bargain!


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 Post subject: Re: Game pricing and distribution discussion topic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 17:45 
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Skillmeister

Joined: 27th Mar, 2008
Posts: 27023
Location: Felelagedge Wedgebarge, The River Tib
Yeah, but it's zombage and I feel obligated to uphold the ideals of the artform as it shambles into the future.

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Washing Machine: Fine. Kettle: Needs De-scaling. Shower: Brand new. Boiler: Fine.
Archimedes Hotdog Rhubarb Niner Zero Niner.


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You are using the 'Ted' forum. Bill doesn't really exist any more. Bogus!
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RIP, Owen. RIP, MrC. RIP, Dimmers.

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