Blasphemy Laws

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:11

http://www.palibandaily.com/2009/07/09/ ... y-illegal/

It seems that Ireland have managed to make blasphemy illegal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... phemy-laws

And teh grauniad thinks so too.

Well, knock me down with a feather, this is going to be interesting.

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:13

Gosh.

Quote:

* Atheists can be prosecuted for saying that God is imaginary. That causes outrage.
* Pagans can be prosecuted for saying they left Christianity because God is violent and bloodthirsty, promotes genocide, and permits slavery.
* Christians can be prosecuted for saying that Allah is a moon god, or for drawing a picture of Mohammed, or for saying that Islam is a violent religion which breeds terrorists.
* Jews can be prosecuted for saying Jesus isn’t the Messiah.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

That's astonishing.

myp · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:16

Zardoz · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:16

Jesus

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

Zardoz wrote:

Jesus

BURN THE WITCH!

metalangel · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:18

Zardoz wrote:

Jesus

GET HIM!

So much for 'God Damn Sploicers' as well, I suppose. And Father Ted.

LewieP · **Joined:** 29th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 7600

This is a joke right?

Edit: Surely stoning would be more appropriate.

myp · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:21

LewieP wrote:

Surely stoning would be more appropriate.

We're not at Glastonbury now, young man.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49252

Holy crap - search and seizure of 'Blasphemous Texts', too!? WTF?

Kern · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:26

Whatever happened to freedom of religion eh?

(My view on blasphemy is simple: I think God is big and strong enough to deal with such matters in his own mysterious ways. Though perhaps he could have handled things better rather than just flooding the entire planet)

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Graham Linehan is going to have a field day with this. I am disappointed his Twitter isn't already full of ranting.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:35

OMF–

kalmar · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:37

Craster wrote:

Holy crap

Jesus dude, careful what you say!

myp · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:37

Zardoz wrote:

OMF–

Goodness.

kalmar · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:43

He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy.

devilman · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:45

kalmar wrote:

Craster wrote:

Holy crap

Jesus dude, careful what you say!

Christ, you can't say that!

NervousPete · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:46

So would Father Ted actually be illegal to make now? I'm confused. :'(

EDIT:

FLIP! Just thought - would Father Ted be ILLEGAL to show in Ireland now? :spew:

Wullie · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 6183

Fucking hell! (Can you still say that?)

Zardoz · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:50

That would be an ecumenical matter.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:51

Can Mali still watch 'The Devil wears Prada' in Ireland?

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:52

Zardoz wrote:

Can Mali still watch 'The Devil wears Prada' in Ireland?

Even I hated that film.

Kern · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:55

What happens if I don't believe in Bono?

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:55

Kern wrote:

What happens if I don't believe in Bono?

You still haven't found what you're looking for?

kalmar · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:55

Kern wrote:

What happens if I don't believe in Bono?

Bono forgives.

The Count of Six · **Joined:** 23rd Jan, 2009 **Posts:** 145

Believe it or not, this is only the second most insidious piece of legislation currently being rushed through by this minister. There's also a Criminal Justice Bill amendment going before the Dáil tonight (before their nine-week break) which gives the Gardaí almost unlimited powers to detain indefinitely anyone suspected of belonging to a "criminal gang" (as a result of tabloid frenzy over a few shootings in Limerick.) What's a criminal gang? The definition is left up to the Guards, who need to supply no corroborating evidence.

The blasphemy thing is bizarre, if no less sinister in principle. However, I doubt it will ever be used.

Zardoz · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:56

Kern wrote:

What happens if I don't believe in Bono?

You'll never have the Edge.

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:57

It's probably got something to do with the Irish Constitution, and that it needs it. Or something.

The Count of Six · **Joined:** 23rd Jan, 2009 **Posts:** 145

The rationalisation is that, since it's mentioned in the constitution but not legislated for, the judiciary could have imposed unlimited penalties in the absence of guidelines. But instead of prescribing nominal penalties or having it struck out by referendum, they've set highly stringent ones. Go figga!

Grim... · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:10

The Count of Six wrote:

Go figga!

Raci... Oh.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

The Count of Six wrote:

The rationalisation is that, since it's mentioned in the constitution but not legislated for, the judiciary could have imposed unlimited penalties in the absence of guidelines.

Which appears not to be the case; the Grauniad mentioned a recent-ish case involving a political cartoon criticising the church where, far from unlimited penalties, the judge said "I cannot prosecute" and threw the case out.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38705

That's why SECULAR is a lovely, lovely word.

Separation of Church and State is essential for liberty.

kalmar · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:13

MrDavPaz wrote:

That's why SECULAR is a lovely, lovely word.

But what does it stand for?

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38705

Secret
Elite
Clowns
United
Liberation
Army
Rangers

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:19

Some
Elderly
Crone
Undoes
Loose
American
Republic

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

It's fucking insane.

They need someone to use the law to try and shut down bible/koran/etc printing factories and so on to point how ridiculous this all is. Because every fucking one is blamsphemous text worthy of being seized. Well worthy of being seized under the most perposterous law I've ever heard off.

Pref a religious group rather than some secular one. I wonder if Ireland has an equivalent of http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/ who are an awesome religious think tank. (Grim and the other religious peeps here should love them, and should support them too).

They do cool stuff like campaign against faith schools because they keep faiths apart and so on, and so often work with Athiest groups too.

Plissken · **Posted:** Fri Jul 10, 2009 16:46

Kern wrote:

What happens if I don't believe in Bono?

Before expressing that kind of though, you need to give it a good Mullen over.

sinister agent · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 7046

This is disgusting beyond words. Mere months after the results of the Lafoy comission prove that the Catholic church was directly responsible for decades of systematic rape, torture and enslavement of young boys and girls left in their care, the government not only decides that the people responsible can get off scot free and not even be named (the victims can of course fuck off, apparently), but then goes ahead and criminalises anyone who doesn't agree with the Catholic church. What. The. FUCK?

Even Parnell and O'Connell would have started a fucking war over this.

Mr. Karl · **Joined:** 3rd Jul, 2008 **Posts:** 52

The President has signed both the blasphemy bill and the gang crime bill into law. Grud Almighty.

Here's the full text of the bits of the bill dealing with blasphemy:

Quote:

36. Publication or utterance of blasphemous matter.

(1) A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €100,000.

(2) For the purposes of this section, a person publishes or utters blasphemous matter if (a) he or she publishes or utters matter that is grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the adherents of that religion, and (b) he or she intends, by the publication or utterance of the matter concerned, to cause such outrage.

(3) It shall be a defence to proceedings for an offence under this section for the defendant to prove that a reasonable person would find genuine literary, artistic, political, scientific, or academic value in the matter to which the offence relates.

37. Seizure of copies of blasphemous statements.

(1) Where a person is convicted of an offence under section 36, the court may issue a warrant (a) authorising any member of the Garda Siochana to enter (if necessary by the use of reasonable force) at all reasonable times any premises (including a dwelling) at which he or she has reasonable grounds for believing that copies of the statement to which the offence related are to be found, and to search those premises and seize and remove all copies of the statement found therein, (b) directing the seizure and removal by any member of the Garda Siochana of all copies of the statement to which the offence related that are in the possession of any person, (c) specifying the manner in which copies so seized and removed shall be detained and stored by the Garda Siochana.

(2) A member of the Garda Siochana may (a) enter and search any premises, (b) seize, remove and detain any copy of a statement to which an offence under section 36 relates found therein or in the possession of any person, in accordance with a warrant under subsection (1).

(3) Upon final judgment being given in proceedings for an offence under section 36, anything seized and removed under subsection (2) shall be disposed of in accordance with such directions as the court may give upon an application by a member of the Garda Siochana in that behalf.

Dimrill · **Posted:** Thu Jul 23, 2009 20:17

I hear they're restarting Witch trials tomorrow, too.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Quote:

(1) A person who publishes or utters blasphemous matter shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable upon conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding €100,000.

Well, I think The Church has found a way around the lack of income from falling attendance.

sinister agent · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 7046

I take back everything I ever said about Ireland deserving independence. If this is what they're going to do with the fruits of the suffering and sacrifice of centuries, they can fucking rot. Until this law is torn from the books, they're a bloody disgrace in my eyes.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

MaliA · **Posted:** Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:45

sinister agent wrote:

I take back everything I ever said about Ireland deserving independence. If this is what they're going to do with the fruits of the suffering and sacrifice of centuries, they can fucking rot. Until this law is torn from the books, they're a bloody disgrace in my eyes.

It's always been there, just ignored. It's been aprt of the constitution, what with it being catholic and all.

As an aside, when I was in Kinsale, I was silently laughing inside when in a pub which had a shitload of american tourists in wearing "9/11 Never Forget" apparel were happily singing along to pro RA songs with the band.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

MaliA wrote:

It's always been there, just ignored. It's been aprt of the constitution, what with it being catholic and all.

That's not quite it. The constitution defined blasphemy as being illegal, but there was no corresponding law on the statute books, so it couldn't be legally tried. Last year a trial had to be abandoned when the judge said "this is clearly unconstitutional but I cannot try the case as it isn't illegal". This law was supposed to balance that up, and supposedly the only alternatives where this, or a (very complicated) change to the constitution that requires an (expensive) referendum.

Except, that doesn't explain why the law is so pissed, or why they couldn't have rolled the blasphemy question into a referendum they are having anyway in a couple of months about something else.

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Blasphemy Laws
in ireland

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Be Excellent To Each Other

Blasphemy Laws in ireland

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Blasphemy Laws
in ireland