Be Excellent To Each Other

My girlfriend is learning to drive
What would people recommend for around £1000 or less for a starter car, perhaps to use for a couple of years?

I started out on a Citroen AX but would suffer to recommend one..

The answer is: it depends. Any small car that costs a grand or less will have a propensity for going wrong due to its age. I guess just make sure you do your checks with the HPI, etc. They're all pretty much of a muchness at that price.

Other than VW Polos and Nissan Micras, of course. I've had a couple of very old Polos for less than a grand each that have done sterling service.

Yes, but that's your anecdotal evidence. I'm sure we could find people who've had all sorts of problems with old Micras and Polos.

cheers

all this is the kinda thing that will help


ive only owned 3 cars and havent vast experience so any real life recommendations are valued.
of course with the caveat that any car less than a grand might just fall apart

But then if you looked you could find people that have had problems with any car, small or big, fast or slow.

Not sure if you can pick up a basic Focus but they seem like OK cars to me. I've heard good about them but also bad. Same with all cars really.

Yes. It's more important to get one which isn't about to suddenly need a lot of stuff replacing, like my Corsa just did. So, evidence of lots of brake / suspension work being done for a recent MOT would be a good thing.

Take a proper look at it in other words!

Corsas and Fiestas are good cheap cars but a bit prone to fatal rusting when they're about 10 years old as well, so I'd possibly be inclined to look at a French or Japanese one instead.

I had a really old micra that was awesome. And I had a really good little Fiesta too. Problems with them were practically always easily fixed by my dad and grandad, who were both pretty handy with cars and things.

A lot of it is likely to depend on how they were cared for (or otherwise) by the previous owners.

No soul, though.

Do what Kalmar said and look at each car on an individual basis. Something with a long MOT and tax is always good as even if it fails the next one, you've had a good 9-10 months out of it if the costs of pushing it through are prohibitive.

There's a fair mass of anecdotal evidence for some cars, mind. You're much less likely to have to replace something expensive and non-consumable in two years of owning a 10 year old Micra than you are with a 10 year old Citroen, Renault or Pug. TRUFAX.

I do have a 2.9i Capri for sale if she wants that.

That's not usually down to the car itself but it's owner and how it has been treated. It's very easy to find out by doing a few simple checks.

Look at the floor mats. If they are worn badly then the milage could be wrong or the car may have led a very hard life. Esp around the pedals.

Grab the door handles and gently give them a tug. Check for anything being loose basically as thrashed cars tend to be very baggy and lose all over.

Same goes for the steering wheel. Rock it about and check for any movement, also look for wear.

The gearstick and leather cover thing on it are also good indicators of wear on a car.

Ask for history, oil change reciepts, any repairs. Anyone who gives a fuck about a car would keep all of this. I know I did.

Check the brakes, check for any disc wobble (you'll feel it on a test drive) again worn discs mean hard braking. Check how many clicks there are on the hand brake, check up on how many there are supposed to be on that particular car.

Just do your research basically man. Anything else up to that of course comes down to fate and luck but there are a good few things to look for to avoid being ripped off.

Also look for problems the car you are looking at suffers from. Some cars have shit clutches, bad gearboxes ETC. If you then decide to buy one of the cars that has known problems be absolutely sure to check it's weak points. For example VWs have shit electrical systems. Make sure everything but everything works. If it has electric windows check them more than once, before and after it's been driven. Check the central locking multiple times, check all the lights, indicators and dash instruments. Infact you want to do that on any car. Check the washer fluid pump by using it, check the wipers. Also check for marks from the wipers on the windscreen as this usually means the bastard hasn't looked after the car and kept it's fluids topped up. That's usually a sure sign of neglect. If they're not watching something simple like the washer fluid levels it ain't gonna say much for the oil and trans fluids.

I've had several 10-15 year old cars that have had very little of note go wrong with them (other than needing tyeres/brake pad/screen wash replacing), partly due to SUPERIOR ARYAN MANUFACTURING PROCESSES and partly due to their previous owners looking after them and me getting them serviced regularly.

Hmm, no disrespect, but this is a sort of "cargo cult" car selection policy. Of course you won't want to buy one that generally looks / feels knackered anyway, but when you're talking about cars in this price range I'd be less concerned about how the carpets look and more concerned about the oily bits.

Also, the above is a good recipe for being impressed into buying a car which has been well valeted and had the mats and pedal covers replaced by a dealer, to disguise a rotted out or crash-repaired disaster underneath.



No, that's not really an indicator of anything.




I agree with that though, and in fact I'd try to avoid one with all the gadgets like electric windows, as they're always the thing to go wrong.

Not so. Fords, Renaults, Peugeots etc parts are much cheaper than their German and Japanese counterparts. What tends to happen is that you either have to replace a few parts at a lower cost at a higher frequency with the shitboxes, or replace something more expensive less frequently with the 'better' cars. It doesn't end up being any cheaper, it just means you have to pay out a lump sum to get a more expensive part.

Hmm, some Jap cars are almost legendary for their reliability with good reason. None of the ones I've had ever broke, the Frenchies did it on a semi-regular basis. You'll pay more for a Jap car or have to get an older one but after that I reckon they're cheaper. Nissan parts don't seem to compare that unfavourably to French bits anyway (if we're comparing say, old Fiestas to old Micras, although I'm sure you could get into a world of hurt getting parts for more expensive Jap cars).

Can you actually still buy cars for less than a grand? Or is there an age/crapness statute of limitations on the scrappage scheme.
I'd be inclined to head a little further up the size scale than a weeny car unless it's all urban running around - the insurance difference between a 1.2 Polo and a 1.8 Passat would probably be negligible and the standard spec on a bigger car might be more, IYSWIM. Particularly with German cars - remember you may be looking at no power assistance on anything on a cheap nazi stafwagen as they were always notoriously stingy with basic spec - a friend of mine owns an R plate Polo 1.4 which has got NOTHING - I don't even think it came with a radio - no PAS, ABS, EW, CL.

Another reason for going up a couple of group sizes is that they're generally more plentiful and they don't hold they're value quite as well because they're slightly more expensive to run - but I imagine this will mainly be fuel costs and seeing as it's highly unlikely that your g/f will be doing more than nominal mileage I'd not be too concerned about that. Also, driving a wee little learner car that she does her tests in will be piss easy if she gets used to driving something bigger.

I don't know how old LS's gf is, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to learn in a car the size of a Passat.

In general, diesels are a bit easier for learners as they have more torque and are harder to stall. Don't worry about getting a bad car - everyone should have a ropey car for their first car.

Especially not if she's having proper lessons as well in which case she'll probably be doing those in a small car, learning to drive can be difficult enough as it is.

I remember going from my dad's Rover 216 (the square one) to my instructor's brand-new Fiesta. I couldn't believe how different it was.

It's worth sticking to cars that sold well. If nothing else, if a bit does fail you KNOW you can grab the replacement from a junkyard for pennies. If a fiesta or corsa needs something, there's a million of them around to be had.

She is into larger cars but doesnt have an appreciation yet that they are harder to drive somewhat (at least for 3 point turns, parking etc).

Ill recommend her make some calls, perhaps a happy medium like a focus or an Astra something that size.

id let her drive my car but I doubt she'd get insured on an Octavia vRS

Absolutely - the scheme only applies to a pretty narrow range of cars which are over 10 years old and have been in that persons ownership for more than a year, and the person has six grand handy to throw at a brand new car (which is still a bit of a waste of money).

Just did a search on Autotrader and there's pages and pages of perfectly reasonable sounding Saxos and Kas and the like, for around 500 quid, even with 12 months MOT and tax. For that price you can't really go wrong.

Focus has quite a blind spot though, so reverse manoeuvring might be a bit tricky for a learner. Probably better off with something smaller and easier to see the corners of, if you see what I mean.

I'm with Mr Chris on this.

Get something as 'uncool' as is humanly possible (a bog standard, unmodded, maroon Nissan Micra will fit the bill nicely), preferably owned by some old granny. But whatever you do, make sure the car hasn't been made in France or Italy, and/or is in any way favoured by the 'yoof' crowd. A shagged Citroen Saxo or an old Corsa with bling bits added is about the worst choice; be very suspicious of anything that has any form of aftermarket stereo. Don't touch anything that has blue smoke in the exhaust. Check the engine bay out for signs of weeping oil and/or coolant on the engine block. Be prepared to be patient and hold out for that one-owner grannymobile; don't be tempted into buying the first or second car that you see.

Of course, you always take a chance on an old motor but you can at least improve the odds in your favour. As others have said though, HPI check is a must and take someone along with you who really knows about cars (i.e. not me), if you can.

Cavey speaks Grandfatherly Truth.

However, christ, spend an extra £500 and you could get a semi-decent Mazda MX-5.

Prudent advice from Cavey there

Another reason for avoiding the modders favourites is that they tend to be popular with the TWOCers as well, so that includes Vauxhall Novas as well as Corsas, Saxos etc. Pointless spending an age searching for something only for it to go missing a month after you've bought it.

Indeed. I rolled around on one of these when I first started. Incredibly cheap, incredibly slow, incredibly reliable and incredibly uncool.

Oh ok. So basically he's looking into buying a first car. A first car that may well have been driven by Johnny Dangerously and handbraked around every single car park at Mcdonalds.

But stress on the cable doesn't indicate anything. And I didn't build two cars.

Maybe, if you're lucky. But realistically for £1500 you're veering into either rustbucket or unfinished project territory.

Valeting is an attempt to hide things. You can't valet a hole in the carpet or worn out steering wheel. No Armor All can fix that.

I said look for wear, not dirt.

When I was looking I saw a few around that looked okay for that price. This was in midwinter of course, when you get a 30% discount on softtops.

If you want to take it away in the back of a transit, my 205 is yours. Needs about 60 quids worth of parts and an afternoon doing it. And an MOT. Other than that, it's acebest, and group 8 insurance, which is going to be the kicker here.

EDIT:I can supply a full list of what needs doing, but it's been done around here before, but if you want it MOT'd and taxed and running then I'll charge

Meh, I love the old Honda CG125 - that old OHV mill couldn't even rev hard enough for serious damage anyway and was truly bullet-proof. I got my full bike licence on one of 'em. Great little workhorse and not even that ugly to my eyes, certainly not when compared to its truly monstrous-looking 'CD' forebears, with their pressed steel frames and all the rest. The Kwak KC100 was another little cheap gem, with the bonus of a fully enclosed chain and much cheaper insurance as well, with similar performance.

The latter day Brazillian made ones weren't as good though, apparently.

Everyone should ride a Cg125 at some stage.

<makes sign of holy pushrods>

Yeah I suppose but I'd be having a good prod around underneath for rust, although I think I'd hesitate to recommend anything that old to someone who just wants a trouble free first car.

You'll want a low insurance group 205.

More useless advice.

When the car is stationary go around each wheel. Grab it from the top, rock your weight in and out. If there's any play it will be damaged bearings, loose suspension or worn out bushings.None of which are easy or cheap to replace and require in some cases removing the hubs.

Check the exhaust for white smoke. A clear indicator of water being in the oil, meaning fucked head gasket.

Take the oil filler cap off the top of the engine whilst the engine is running. Inspect the cap for white scum, this means water in the oil and put your hand over the filler hole and feel for any back pressure. Also when you remove your hand check for any steam discharge. All of which indicate a fucked head gasket, walk away now at any sign of any of the above.

Grab the exhaust pipe and gently pull it left to right and up and down. Listen for any banging. If there is? it needs exhaust rubbers (cheap but leads to broken exhaust if they're not replaced promptly.

Check for uneven wear on the tires, this means the tracking or alignment is out. Not the end of the world but the car could actually be twisted (accident damage).

Check the oil and gearbox fluid levels. If they're low it's a clear indication that the owner does not pay attention to such things.

Run the car long enough for the fan to kick it. This indicates a working thermostat and working fan.

The LAST thing you need to worrry about on any car built after 1999ish is the engine. That is the single most reliable piece of any car.

Also, ask them where they keep it parked and look on the ground for any leaked fluids. Again, clear indication that a hose/gasket is fucked. Brown is oil, red is trans and green is washer fluid.

Avoid any sales that say "No tire kickers !!oneoeneleven" this is usually an indication that they know there's something wrong and want you to take the car on face value because it's clean. A tire kicker is someone who basically rats the whole fucking car like above (as any mechanic would do) and makes sure everything is OK.

Listen for any rattles coming from the engine or engine bay.

Start the car, pull up the handbrake and put it into gear. Then get someone to watch the engine as you very gently let off the clutch. Any excess movement will indicate either bad motor mounts or a bad gearbox mount. Not expensive, but on modern cars (due to lack of space in the engine bay) very hard and costly in labor to replace.

If the car is approaching or has done more than 100k get the cam belt replaced. The single and foremost cause of engine death. Modern engines can do at least 300k (they have been left running on stands to prove this) but belts tend to wear. When you start the car listen for any screeching and check around the belts for oil or WD40. If there's WD40 or the smell of it under the engine bay then it's likely belts need replacing.

Don't buy a car that has been valeted under the bonnet ! This isn't a fucking custom car show and it doesn't need to be clean under there because you don't see it. Cleaning an engine compartment is a confession to it being smothered in oil and usually means they're trying to hide something.

Check the underside of the bonnet for oil spatter. This is another great way to see if any oil is leaking. Check the manifold for smoke. This means the engine is leaking oil and it's burning off on the manifold.

All of which is completely useless of course because I don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

Well, I did, so you can take my word for it

To check whether the brakes are in good condition you operate them during a test drive and see what happens. You could even look underneath and check whether the cable and any guides visible look like they're in good nick.
The exact number of clicks of the ratchet is almost completely irrelevant.

Oh and drive it up to 55mph at least and see if you feel any faint vibrating or wobbling.

Main causes are fucked wheel bearings, bent worn discs or tracking. All of which won't be evident at lower speeds.

It can even be fucked radial belts in the tires, but newer tires tend not to suffer with these problems. Can also be caused by bent egged or warped wheels.

JC, you spend a grand on a car which has a tax and MOT, you drive it for a year, if it passes the next MOT, awesome, if not, no worries. None of the other shit matters.

Not totally related, but I got my last car off an old guy whos leg went bad meaning he needed an automatic. It was a s reg astra 1.6 8v, 37k on the clock not a mark on it, full vxhall s/h £1500.

I spent $900 on a Tiburon and drove it for 4 years putting 80,000 miles on it. I tracked it, raced it and drove it every single day.

Cars don't have to be disposable items and people don't have to waste money. If looked after there's no reason whatsoever they can't last for years.

But then I suppose it's all about your outlook on things. Don't fix what isn't broken as they say and fix what is broken. Maintainance. Which is all the things I have pointed out. Poor maintainance means a shit car because they're not built that way (well unless we're going back to the early years of Hyundai and Kia).

Cars are the second most expensive investment humans make and believe it or not shouldn't be treated as disposable items.

I thought you'd been married?

I learnt in a 2 l diesel peugot. But went on to drive a little cinquecento, pretty good car, cheap, does loads to the gallon, pretty nippy up to about 40/50mph, and the tax was fairly cheap

On day a scientist has to define "nippy". I fully believe that Chikky-chento was nippy, but my Mundano isn't nippy at all, although it would be far faster from 0-50 (and back to 0 again).

Whaa? A perfectly good car can be had for much less than <1000, as you just pointed out. I've spent more on computers than I ever have on a car.

I got my car for free, and would have been better served by simply throwing it away and spending a few hundred pounds on a new one when it failed its MOT, instead of a few hundred pounds on parts and a weekend spent wrestling with rusted crap.

That's not right, but you can't blame people for taking the easier and cheaper route, especially if they can't fix it themselves.

I was. My wife however thought she was clever (as I said before she was spiteful) and played the whole "50/50" thing. She never cooked me a meal, never did anything for me and we took care of ourselves (which was odd but hey, works for me.. I can actually cook fix things and work the washing machine).

What it all meant of course was "I'm a lazy cunt and want you to look after me" but at the end of the day she decided the game plan and I wasn't about to do so.

To that ends I spent my money on me and taking care of me and she was supposed to do the same. I was happy to have what I had (which wasn't terribly much but hey, it was mine and all bought and paid for, no debt) and she bought herself a brand new car on credit ($18,500) a laptop ($3000) and all manner of other shit that made her life difficult.

Which leads me back to my car of course. I got it for $900 and they booked @ around $5000. However, it had been sitting for a year and all the brakes were worn to the nub so I replaced all the discs and pads. The gearbox was leaking so I took the bottom off, flushed it and replaced all the filters gaskets and fluids and it needed a new battery. Took about two weeks of working after work to get it done but from there all I did was take up the maintainance and it ran like a charm.

So many people DO NOT take the actual running costs of a car into consideration. Certain cars are more costly for parts (oddly Hyundai are one of them) and thus might sound cheap on purchase day but don't seem so cheap when you add in routine maintainance and the ilk.

Soon as I got that car inspected and on the road she started with the "sell it sell it !" routine. She always was fucking greedy. My argument of course was simple. I got a $5k car for $900 and it cost me $130 and two weeks of work to fix. Why the fuck would I take the money and then end up with a car that I had no clue to it's reliability etc?

As I say man, outlook on life.