Xbox New Hardware Rumours

itsallwater · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:57

Woo just seen some rumours regarding a new Xbox released next year with built in Nutella (Natal)! Also with extra funky hardware improving current gen games... probably just a larger hard disk?!

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Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

itsallwater wrote:

Woo just seen some rumours regarding a new Xbox released next year with built in Nutella (Natal)! Also with extra funky hardware improving current gen games... probably just a larger hard disk?!

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Oh yeah, I saw this on the weekend. It seems unlikely to me. Each game works on both consoles but the newer console does extra "stuff"? Didn't we all leave PC gaming behind to get away from compatibility problems?

MOD REQUEST: thread split, this should be discussed.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:11

Does that mean I win the bet?

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Grim... wrote:

Does that mean I win the bet?

Fuck no. MS were emphatic that Natal was "an add-on, not a new console". They'll shoot this rumour down fast, because true or not, it would Osborne 360 sales into oblivion if people believed it.

My money is on a 360-slim/Natal bundle.

MaliA · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:18

It's being built from scratch, not using any of the old architecture a-(BANG! - Ed)

Nemmie · **Joined:** 13th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 1643

If they manage to make one thats reliable I might be interested.

itsallwater · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:20

If there is a bet on Hardware then possibly. By better they could mean like the Xbox to Xbox 360. I.E. Just rendering in higher resolutions. But as we will be using the same hardware providers perhaps no patches will be needed or indeed perhaps people will release new lighting patches or something.

Depends it could just be a more modest update with an updated Graphics engine* or something. Simple but better?

*chip set

kalmar · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:28

They're making it fully backwards compatible with the PS2.

Dudley · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8679

I'm fairly certain MS aren't stupid enough to release an incremental upgrade that'll mean new games won't work and there's no way they're going to try and use a billion core power PC like some rumours, it'd cook London the second you turned it on.

A 720 sure, probably with Natal done properly (with the 360 one ending up much like how Live Arcade was "trialled" on the first box) but not until Oct 2010.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

Dudley wrote:

I'm fairly certain MS aren't stupid enough to release an incremental upgrade that'll mean new games won't work

There's no way they'd fragment the software lineup by changing the hardware mid-cycle.

Dudley · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8679

Although strangely Nintendo are pretty much doing exactly that with the DSi.

Grim... · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:15

And, you could argue, the motionplus controller.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

Dudley wrote:

Although strangely Nintendo are pretty much doing exactly that with the DSi.

Given that 80% of the lineup is throwaway titles that will rapidly appear for the DSi too, I think that it is less of an issue for the DS.

ltia · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:42

I read it as being more like the Game Cube & Wii. Updated graphics hardware & new controller gubbins, but still basically the same machine underneath.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

Wii games won't run on a gamecube though. If they do something like that, they're basically giving up on their entire software library to date. Considering that's where the money comes from, that's a terrible idea.

DBSnappa · **Posted:** Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:51

I reckon it'll be a 360 slim with natal, s'all

BikNorton · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 10175

Yeah, lots of cost-saving* and fixing the hardware, combined with built-in Natal to justify whacking the price back up to $599 (or whatever "Elite + Natal - $50" is) and a name change so they can kill the 3 year warranty on a technicality.

It'd be nice if they went the Sony route on hard disk replacement, especially with the speed they're pushing towards downloads - they've got to hate that decision as much as everyone else, with the massive cost, low volume sales and need to constantly do new versions of the transfer cable/software that they can't charge for. Maybe they've got the doodads figured out to "allow" user-replaceable disks.

* They're already down to 150W, another shrink or two along the line the PSU will be weedy enough to pull into the main unit.

Dudley · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8679

Craster wrote:

Dudley wrote:

Although strangely Nintendo are pretty much doing exactly that with the DSi.

Given that 80% of the lineup is throwaway titles that will rapidly appear for the DSi too, I think that it is less of an issue for the DS.

I'm more referring to the inevitable DSi ONLY titles that won't work on a DS, stuff that uses the camera or SD slot.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Dudley wrote:

I'm more referring to the inevitable DSi ONLY titles that won't work on a DS, stuff that uses the camera or SD slot.

I think this will mostly be download games. You'd be brave to put out a DSi-only cartridge game, because that's 100 million less people that could be buying that game. Whereas with download games, you give up the 100 million, but at least you get stuff back in the form of digital distribtion.

itsallwater · **Posted:** Tue Jun 16, 2009 14:24

M$ have played down the rumours of a new console. It seems we will all be able to play with Natal if we stump up the cash. Although a new stream lined modelled must be in the works that costs lots less that will ship at the same time and probably along side Natal so that M$ can keep the sales up and keep their costs down in pimping Natal to the masses.

- Source = Pure speculation, et al.

Dudley · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8679

Oh I wouldn't bet against a slimline 360. It might even bundle a camera. But they will NOT release a 360 that invalidates old 360s. They're not that stupid.

BikNorton · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 10175

They could update to a DX11+ spec graphics chip and run two certification streams, throwing money at developers (who should be used to falling back DX versions by now) to bother. They could also bung in an extra core on the CPU package to run Natal*, but that's neither here nor there games-wise.

* And all the social networking shit they're forcing in there.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

BikNorton wrote:

They could update to a DX11+ spec graphics chip and run two certification streams, throwing money at developers (who should be used to falling back DX versions by now) to bother.

To be fair, if any console manufacturer could pull this off, it's MS because of their experience running far more complicated tiers of hardware capability under Windows. It's very un-consolish but I suppose not impossible. It would only compound the pressure on the DVD space though, because the first thing devs will want to increase is texture quality.

Dudley · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8679

BikNorton wrote:

They could update to a DX11+ spec graphics chip and run two certification streams, throwing money at developers (who should be used to falling back DX versions by now) to bother. They could also bung in an extra core on the CPU package to run Natal*, but that's neither here nor there games-wise.

* And all the social networking shit they're forcing in there.

Bunging an extra core in really won't help the heat issues.

They'll be working on a 720, they'll probably mention it at E3 next year for an October release. It'll do this stuff properly.

In the meantime the 360 will be used to play with the concepts.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

It's pretty standard practice to rejuvinate the hardware lineup (without introducing software compatibility issues) towards the end of a console's life, right? The PSOne, the Slim PS2 etc. I can't see this being any different, except that they'll bundle Natal with it.

Dudley · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8679

Craster wrote:

It's pretty standard practice to rejuvinate the hardware lineup (without introducing software compatibility issues) towards the end of a console's life, right? The PSOne, the Slim PS2 etc. I can't see this being any different, except that they'll bundle Natal with it.

Yes, but none of the ones you mentioned supported making games a PS1, PS2 etc couldn't run. In fact it went precisely the other way (lack of hard drive on PS2Slim etc)

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

Dudley wrote:

Craster wrote:

It's pretty standard practice to rejuvinate the hardware lineup (without introducing software compatibility issues) towards the end of a console's life, right? The PSOne, the Slim PS2 etc. I can't see this being any different, except that they'll bundle Natal with it.

Yes, but none of the ones you mentioned supported making games a PS1, PS2 etc couldn't run. In fact it went precisely the other way (lack of hard drive on PS2Slim etc)

Yeah, that's what I'm saying - that's why I think all we'll see is a physical reshaping, nothing that'll affect the software lineup.

Dudley · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 8679

Then we concur!

Port and cigars all round!

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

As expect, Microsoft say "no":

Quote:

Microsoft bigwig Shane Kim has stated that the release of Project Natal will be "the launch of Xbox 360", and that no new console hardware will be involved.

"Absolutely. It will be that big," he told Gamasutra. "Now, the good news is that it's not a new hardware architecture; we're not forcing customers to have to go buy a new console because it will work with every existing Xbox 360 out there.

"But in terms of its importance and scale of what we're talking about, yeah, absolutely, it will be like the launch of a new Xbox."

Kim, who was omnipresent at E3, said similar things all show, citing an Xbox 360 lifecycle through to 2015, and explaining that the motion-sensing technology (that has its own processing power) is as good as a new console anyway.

And not only will Natal be "revolutionary", but Kim believes it will transcend comparisons with Nintendo and Sony, as the real goal is "unlocking the potential of the industry": reaching the millions upon millions of people with no console at all.

His comments discredit - but do not disprove - speculation that Microsoft plans to launch a new Xbox 360 console next year. Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg played down rumours of a new machine, too - as did Eurogamer's Digital Foundry blog with technical panache.

Project Natal has no release date as yet.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

What's interesting about that is that it implies that it will be a good while before we see a successor to the 360.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Craster wrote:

What's interesting about that is that it implies that it will be a good while before we see a successor to the 360.

I am unsurprised by this. Sony are evidently playing the long game with the PS3, and with no other competiton to speak of (the Wii chases quite a different market, and that'll continue even if the Wii HD is real) why wouldn't MS just sit back and rake some cash off for a while?

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Surprise new Xbox 360 model appears (yes, really): a version of the Jasper with the 256Mb on-board flash memory (that maps as a memory card to the OS) upgraded to 512Mb. This seems odd. Perhaps they are thinking about future expandability down the road? Or maybe it's just more economical to buy larger flash chips that are made in bigger volumes.

Cras · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 49244

I suspect it's purely a component sourcing decision.

Malabelm · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 13:25

Craster wrote:

What's interesting about that is that it implies that it will be a good while before we see a successor to the 360.

I'm not sure we need one. I hate early games on consoles as the developers are finding their way around. The current generation is fulfilling me perfectly at the moment, and I see no need to upgrade.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

Craster wrote:

I suspect it's purely a component sourcing decision.

I'd agree, but 2GB flash chips can't be hard to come by, can they? It's not like when the 8Gb drive in the Xbox1 became a 20Gb one because no-one else on the planet was using 8Gb 3.5" drives for anything so they were costing a fortune to make.

BikNorton · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 10175

2Gb chips are probably more expensive to make than 4Gb ones, now, or the market is dying so Samsung is phasing them out. Or both.

itsallwater · **Posted:** Wed Jun 17, 2009 14:22

True. Although I'm waiting for my'n to break again so I can get HDMI! That's improved performance in my book.

End of an Era · **Joined:** 25th Nov, 2008 **Posts:** 1041

Ahhh, speculation - I love that.

Here are my predictions:

360 hardware will be revised to make it cheaper to produce and/or to solve existing problems (mine RROD'd today, just after my brand new copy of Burny P arrived, got installed and was attempted to be played!). There will be no meaningful changes to the specification.

Natal (aka novelty-cackster feature for girls) will be released as an add-on and may be included in an Xbox slim edition (although quite how they'd shrink the heat sinks small enough to do a PS2 Slim is beyond me, unless they move to liquid/chemical cooling, which they wont.) or Xbox novelty-cackster version for girls.

Microsoft announce a new console in late 2012 for release Christmas 2013.

BikNorton · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 10175

End of an Era wrote:

(although quite how they'd shrink the heat sinks small enough to do a PS2 Slim is beyond me, unless they move to liquid/chemical cooling, which they wont.)

As I said - the newest PSU is down to 150W from, what, 225 or 250 or something in the launch box? That's hugely reduced heat to dissipate. Another CPU and GPU iteration could see another 25W off that. They already had space for that emergency heatpipe before the 175W boards, so there's probably scope to shrink the box already, especially with the chance to properly revise the airflow model.

Did Sony get a patent on the PS3's "enormous, slow fan sitting on top" design? If not, MS should probably rip that off if they're doing a redesign anyway. Probably wouldn't, though.

tossrStu · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1326

512MB Arcade officially announced:

http://kotaku.com/5295702/microsoft-off ... de-storage

Steve Ballmer all but confirms that a 360 with built-in Natal will be launched next year:

http://kotaku.com/5295898/report-micros ... ng-in-2010

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16642

I thought that the Natal stuff was just going to come bundled with this new Xbox as standard, but from reading that it seems it's going to be built in. This seems a bit daft, it will presumably mean that you'll need to position the whole console correctly for it to work.

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38668

I'm almost certain that my bro's new Arcade (swapped in store by Game) has 512mb on board.

Has that jammy git lucked into a brand new Jasper? The bastard!

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

markg wrote:

I thought that the Natal stuff was just going to come bundled with this new Xbox as standard, but from reading that it seems it's going to be built in. This seems a bit daft, it will presumably mean that you'll need to position the whole console correctly for it to work.

Unless the new Xbox is really small?

DavPaz · **Joined:** 27th Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 38668

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

markg wrote:

I thought that the Natal stuff was just going to come bundled with this new Xbox as standard, but from reading that it seems it's going to be built in. This seems a bit daft, it will presumably mean that you'll need to position the whole console correctly for it to work.

Unless the new Xbox is really small?

Maybe they're taking out the DVD drive...

markg · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 16642

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

markg wrote:

I thought that the Natal stuff was just going to come bundled with this new Xbox as standard, but from reading that it seems it's going to be built in. This seems a bit daft, it will presumably mean that you'll need to position the whole console correctly for it to work.

Unless the new Xbox is really small?

Well it would need to be really, really small to fit in front of my telly where my Live camera goes, and it would look messy with all the wires coming out the back. I'm guessing they've probably thought of all this though.

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