Be Excellent To Each Other

Don't they do movies?

*shrugs*

Anyway, here's a link:

http://www.empireonline.com/100greatestgames/

Can't seem to find an actual full list, so here's the top twenty



Doubtless this is another list full of travesty... which in particular makes you swear at the screen?

any list with FF7 is rubbish. You never hard of Planescape: Torment? Are you serious?

I've never heard of it. Only game on the list I've never heard of.

I'm also surprised that "God of War" is possibly the highest ranking PS2 game. I've not played that either, and I had a PS2 and a lot of games.

Planescape: Torment is kind of an RPG cult classic. But now every top list seems able to put it in for some credibility. It's the game with best writing and story that i can think of, but i still rank Fallout and Baldur's Gate 2 above it.

Fucking travesty of a fucking travesty produced by hateful cretinous morons. These people know nothing about games and aren't fit to lace my boots.

My! That's a subjective list. Still, it's Empire, much as I enjoy flicking through it and indeed personally know most of the writers I don't even agree with their taste in films a lot of the time.

Translation: Nothing on that list will run on my beloved GX4000... oh Sir Alan, why have you forsaken me?

I'm not saying any GX4000 game should be on there. But fuck me, we need our own list.

To this end I suggest we create our own list. I will post details of how we will achieve this over the next few days*. STAY TUNED VIEWERS.



* I want to use the Your Sinclair voting method that they stole from AP. But NVG is being slow. Bah!

I would ike to second this.

Also, Planescape completely unimpressed me the first time I played it. I gave it a good long go, and it was just dull and slow, with loads of clomping aimlessly around collecting subquests, in big ugly grey areas, and choosing the effective responses for conversation seemed largely trial and error. And then I had to fight some rats and I just switched off.

But I had another crack at it last year, and it sort of clicked, and I got what the fuss was about. Hard to explain why. I guess I just approached it differently. It's well worth playing, if only to see how unique its approach is.

That list does kind of well to be quite varied, but a lot of things should simply not be on there. Halo? It was influential, certainly, and fun, but nowhere near being one of the best FPS games, let alone the best games ever. Call of Duty 4? Sod off. Gears of War? Now you're just taking the piss.

Errr , the was an amstrad version of elite , so if the GX4000 could be made to run 464 / 664 / 6128 games then theres at least one game he could play on there :-)

Mainly because they basically do advertorial all the time, instead of actually reviewing films.

I really do hope they mean "The Civilisation Franchise" at #5, rather then Civ 1. Because if they actually think Civ1 is a better game than Civ4, they've got a serious case of the mentals.

I can't believe the number of RPGs in that top 20 that aren't Ultima VII/Serpent's Isle.

Also, any 'top 100 list' that doesn't actually, y'know, give you a list can get to fucking fuck.

We need a top 100 gamers of all time list.

Just need to find the other 99 now.

Ok right people.

I have found how the YS scheme voting scheme works. Each person selects 10 games. 1st game gets 10 points, 2nd game gets 9 points etc. Shall we do this in a new thread or here?

And should voting be anonymous via PM?

Your thoughts please.

Yes

Yes

Good stuff

FTFY.
Seriously, has the fact that it's been in "top x" lists ever since it came out, ones voted for by gamers or critics, not given you all a clue that you might be wrong about this?

Voting thread started. I've decided on a Top 50 because we don't have enough posters for there to be any kind of quality beneath 50. Like how I managed to vote Horace Goes Skiing into the YS Top 100 (which amusingly Mr Nash mentions in his editorial in The Big Final Issue).

Horace Goes Skiing was great though.

1 - Super Mario World (SNES) Fuck off, it's good but it's not the greatest game ever.
2 - Final Fantasy VII (PSone) Also fuck off, it's tedious as fuck and certainly isn't the second best game ever.
3 - World of Warcraft (PC) 11 million people can't be wrong?
4 - Call of Duty 4 (various) Oh, FUCK OFF... 'You were killed by XoX laggedsniper XoX, who has now unleashed a gunship helicopter'
8 - Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64) They really don't grasp 'greatest games of all time' as a concept at all, do they?
15 - Half-life 2 (PC) A game where half the levels are tedious, annoying shit doesn't get to go into the top 20.
17 - Super Mario Kart (SNES) I know I'm in the minority for hating this load of arse.
18 - Gears of War (360) Again, good but not THAT good.
20 - Metal Gear Solid (PSone) It's barely a game, more a series of blocky cutscenes, angsty exposition and hours upon hours of static portraits while actors read crappy dialogue. What actual game there is has horrendously shit controls and illogical concepts.

And your top 20 would be?

It was voted for my people using the web site. Not sure if they picked from a list or not, though - Empire's Top 100 lists on the web site haven't done so in the past, though.

Well, it wouldn't be based just on sales figures and how many 14 year olds like it, which much of that list seems to be.

But wait - obviously your list is going to be different from someone else's, but if you had to define a 'best' game, then surely it's "the game that the most people like best".

Quite - trying to work off the basis of some subjective level of 'quality' is a hiding to nothing.

That, and some sad cunts play fruit machine emulators, which will skew the vote.

1 - Super Mario World (SNES) - ok, i accept this even though i prefer SMB3. I hate the ghost houses in SMW
2 - Final Fantasy VII (PSone) - Cock off fagballs
3 - World of Warcraft (PC) - see above
4 - Call of Duty 4 (various) - Loved the 1st, but the rest did nothing for me. Endless respawning enemies. 'nough said
5 - Civilization (PC) - The 2nd was much better. The 4th was slightly better
6 - Streetfighter II (SNES) - There are better 2d fighters, like The Last Blade, but i may be the minority here
7 - Doom (PC) - Ok ok
8 - Zelda: Ocarina of Time (N64) - Wind Waker bitches!! Can't stand N64 graphics
9 - Super Mario 64 (N64) - Super Mario Galaxy bitches! Can't stand N64 graphics
10 - Goldeneye (N64) - never played it, but i can't ctand n64 graphics
11 - Planescape: Torment (PC) - Great, but i prefer Fallout and Baldur's gate 2
12 - Command & Conquer (PC) - I'm not a RTS person to judge this
13 - Elite (various) - Ok, good choice. I i prefered Pirates! back in the day
14 - Halo (Xbox) -FUCK OFF!! Most overrated game ever (FF7 is barely a "game").
15 - Half-life 2 (PC) - Another overrated piece of shit
16 - GTAIV (various) - never played it
17 - Super Mario Kart (SNES) - never played it
18 - Gears of War (360) - Crap game. I never got into, it was the most souless, empty and brainless "game" experience i ever had. Beexers say it needs two players to be good. If that's true, it shouldn't be here.
19 - Baldur's Gate 2 (PC) - Finally, now we're talking. Should be higher though
20 - Metal Gear Solid (PSone) - Fuck off Kojima. You give gamers a bad name. I fuckin hate you.



Sinister Agent agrees with me, and i guess many game critics also do. This is as much a game as Dragon's lair was. But at least Dragon's lair looked good and was manly.

That would be something like Tetris or Space Invaders, then.

edit - replying to Grim...'s post.

Great games aren't games which people play, they are games which people can be smug about.

Seriously, I agree with on HL2, and I haven't played the majrity of those games, but I wouldn' say the main problem here is the games, it is the apparantley random criteria used. Halo is a good game, but not great, it was however very influential. HL was a more influential game than HL2 (and argueably better fun) so shouldn't that be in there instead?


20 - Metal Gear Solid (PSone) It's barely a game, more a series of blocky cutscenes, angsty exposition and hours upon hours of static portraits while actors read crappy dialogue. What actual game there is has horrendously shit controls and illogical concepts.

I haven't played this in a long time, but I don't recall it being that bad?

Also, what sort of shit topp 100 hasn't got a top 100?

Have fun finding a bad review of it that isn't on some blog somewhere.

Yeah, I liked MGS1.

Re: FFVII



Don't be utterly ridiculous. In what way was it not a game?

So what? I probably won't be finding many bad reviews of U2 latest albums in big magazines either. What's your point?

You said many game critics agree with you. You're wrong.

I loved the action parts of MGS1, but was turned off future iterations due to the lengthy cutscenes, etc.

What sort of list are we making, then? A list of what I think are the best, or what I think other people will think are the best?

clicking X over and over though shit and childish dialogue and get to the next battle where you have to just click X over and over again to kill the enemies. If it's a boss, go back to grind a bit (which means clicking X over and over).

There's this notion among the game journalists that we shouldn't judge these games by its linearity, beacause, unlike western RPG's they are most focused on the story. Am i too weird if is say that the writing and characters of Planescape:torment, Ultima 7, Baldur's Gate 2 and Fallout are in a complete different league?

This is not hate against jRPG's. Loved Phantasy Star and like the Fire Emblem games.

To be fair, there's some obvious choices in there that I'd generally agree with - FFVII, Ocarina, Mario 64, Doom & Elite are all usual list-fodder, and I suppose World of Warcraft makes sense, despite being really boring.

Stuff like Call of Duty 4 is far too recent to have any significance, though. It's a bit like people voting for the Dark Knight is top 100 movie polls.

FFVI is better than VII, though.

Also, that's a bit harsh comparing FFVII to the worst game of all time.

Yup - it seems to be yet another list where a game can only be truly good if it came out in the last ten years.

Probably not the critics on Edge, but i really doubt, for example, that Stuart Campbell or Kieron Gillen (or any other of the RPS guys) like FF7. And both Stuart and Kieron have completely different tastes. I also doubt that there are many people on rpgdot or rpgcodex that like ff7.

If you want to simplify things, then all FPSs and shmups ever are just pressing fire repeatedly, and all platformers just pressing Up To Jump.

FF7 contained all sorts of interesting things.

But then Stuart would say the same about Baldur's Gate 2. Asking someone who doesn't like any game that isn't a schmup or a puzzle game what they think of an RPG is hardly a worthwhile exercise, wouldn't you agree?

you have a point, but i remember something he wrote and he criticizes and jokes about FF7 for exactly the same thing as me, and those are criticisms that can't be directed at BG2, even if he doesn't like the game.

I think we should invite him for the discussion, it would be much more interesting.

Apart from it still beating CoD5 in all departments and being an excellent single player game with great multiplayer modes.

It's by no means the greatest game ever but I don't think games should be put down for being too recent.

ANd Baldurs gate and Diablo are just constantly bashing left mouse button. I have never played FF7 and am not defending it, but to slate it for having to use a button is a bit silly.

Not all FPS, just Gears of War. Which isn't a FPS anyway. No...what you wrote is just silly.

I think you're confusing the PS2 Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance 'action RPG' game with the fully D&D rules PC Baldur's Gate games.

I wrote exactly what you wrote!

Of course saying you just have to push fire for all FPSs is silly. So is saying that all you do in FF7 is push a button. Saying that the dialogue or storyline are inferior to other RPGs, or that you don't think it has enough depth is fine, but to just say you sit tehre and aren't a part of proceedings is clearly, definitely wrong.

And if you think that all you have to do in GoW is press a button then you've clearly never played it. It might not be my favourite game, but you clearly have to move around and find cover. And reload. And laugh at the dialogue.

That's not the point. Even if you alternate between the triangle and X wasn't going to be any different. And have you ever played Baldur's Gate? And Diablo doesn't waste your time with stupid endless dialogues and annoying childish characters. Besides there's hell, demons and lots of blood. And an absolutely lovely eerie soundtrack and top-notch atmosphere. And please, don't say that FF7 also has all of that because if you do, you're WRONG!

actually i even finished GoW, which kind of negates my criticisms. But well, the game looks lovely and it was always the game i put on if i wanted to impress anyone with the power of my pc. But there's no way around the fact that the game is absolutely shallow. And not shallow in a good way like serious sam and Painkiller. These games throw at you different weapons, levels and enemies through the game and keeping the experience fresj while in GoW is the same thing over and over again with slightly different textures.

I have highlighted the relevant sections.

As for it not being the point, then what is the point? You said you didn't like FF7 because it was constant button bashing, but Diablo is just the same thing, click on waves of bad guys until they are dead, pick up loot until you can't carry anymore, port back to town, sell it till you have too much gold to do anything with, then go back and do the same again. Okay, the method in which you kill the bad guys can vary drastically, but it is essentially the same thing.