Be Excellent To Each Other

I borrowed a few games off my mate the other day - essential PS2 stuff that came out after I'd stopped caring about the console. Tried running them on my 80GB PS3 only to discover it "doesn't support PS2 games". Why?

As far as I know, all of them can actually run PS2 games quite happily, so why the fuck have they disabled it on the newer consoles? I know there was a lot of fuss about this a while back, but I wasn't paying attention. Are they planning to re-enable it with a firmware update?

Too expensive to produce the consoles, so they said to fuck off.

This is one of the main reasons I decided to get a PS2 instead of waiting and saving up for a PS3.

Yeah, and they took the "Emotion Engine" out. HOWEVER, the PS3s after that still had "limited compatibility" with software emulation, but they've removed that functionality as well now.

Yep. Too expensive to produce the consoles, so they said to fuck off.

Yeah, but, they didn't remove any extra chips, they just disabled it in the firmware, which is no more or less expensive.

Too expensive to produce the consoles, so they said to fuck off.

As I understand it -

The initial US/Japanese PS3's had the PS2 GPU and emotion engine in hardware, enabling full hardware BC with PS2 games.

The initial UK 60GB PS3s had the emotion engine taken out and emulated in software, but kept the GPU, so had pretty good BC with PS2 games. In my experience it works an awful lot better better than 360 BC.

All later models stripped out the PS2's GPU as well, meaning no BC at all.

They all play original Playstation games, though.

Thanks Dimrill, you've been extremely helpful.

Aha, this makes sense then. Cunts! Must've been too expensive to make the consoles or something.

so they said to fuck off.

Where did you hear that?

The later models also miss the 60GB's flash card readers, SACD (what?) support and have two USB slots instead of four, according to Wikipedia.

Just a guess. I'm thinking about becoming an industry analyst.

Super Audio Compact Disc. Brief spike in the everlong drama that is "music/film industry inventing new formats to make you buy them again, cos they're cunts". Providing the support for it made it too expensive to produce the consoles, so they said to fuck off.

Ah yes, I remember reading long tedious articles in 'the Gramophone' on the supposed format war between SACD and DVDA around a decade ago. I feel old.

Ah, that'll be why I'm hypothetically left holding a PlayTV's USB end, confusedly wondering where I should connect it with my wireless controller and headset leads.

Does anyone know how well the PS3 likes USB hubs?

I could be mistaken, but isn't there another USB on the back of the machine, or is that the 360?

TBH I think it was mostly a pitch aimed at getting people to buy into this new (offensively expensive) console. They promise you that you can play all of your existing games you've spent an arm and a leg on and then when the console actually comes out it all changes

Microsoft promised full back compatibility with the Xbox, it didn't happen and was very limited. Sony offered ps1 backward compatibility with the PS2 and again it was limited. And so on and so on.

Most parents (if you were young and wanted one) would immediately say "but does it play all of the games we've already spent hundreds on?"

A pitch IMO. Crafty bastards.

That's the 360, which gets it right by having front and rear ports. The PS3 lacking a rear port means the Play TV has to plug in the front, which is stupid, and the Wii having no front ports means you are fumbling around the back when plugging in... umm, something. The GH:WT mic, I think.

Bik, the PS3 will work fine with a USB hub, but I'd put the PlayTV in a root port. However if you are using the existing ports just for charging a headset and a pad, you probably won't have to plug the hub into the PS3. For charging they are only using the USB 5v wire and not the data connection. I say probably; it should work but my Sixaxis is incredibly sulky about it for some reason.

No, that worked fine, because the PS2 has an entire PS1 chipset inside it. They did clever things. The PS1's CPU acts as the PS2's sound processor. Similarly, the first generation PS3 had genuine hardware compatibility with PS2 games. I suspect they'd still be that way if the 360 wasn't killing the PS3 on price, meaning Sony had to cut every single corner they could to get the costs down (whilst also still trying to turn a buck in the PS2 market).

Really? (in a, quite suprised way and not being sarky)

I'm certain that some of my ps1 games did not work on the PS2.

EDIT : wasn't it 2 discs games along the lines of FF and Gran Turismo 2?

I'm pretty sure the PS2 wasn't 100% compatible with PS1 games, but it was pretty close. I don't remember finding anything that didn't work from personal experience.

It's hard to google, you get PS3 stuff back most of the time. There were games that had fairly minor glitches but it wasn't many, less than 100 out of tens of thousands of games.

Terracon didn't work on the PS2. Only game one of my mates worked on before Picturehouse went pop.

Slimline PS2s being profitable is part of the reason.

They came up with a chip that has both the EE and the GS on it, it is expensive, but cost saving by making the manufacture process faster meant it was more cost effective for the PS2.

However, when they came up with this chip, they had a massive stockpile of GS chips (for some reason they stockpiled them, but not the EE chip). They used all these up with the PAL consoles, since they might as well.

Now, it is cost cutting to not have BC, but when they had a bunch of effectively free GS chips, it was sensible to do.

This is somewhat conjecture, but I am pretty sure it is close to the truth.

I reckon they'll put BC back into the PS3 once the PS2 is no longer profitable.

I'm sure it's something like 17 PS1 games that don't run on the PS2. The problem is simply if the game in question does something bizarre with the standard PS1 hardware that isn't precisely replicated by the PS1 hardware in the PS2.

The Megadrive was similarily backwards compatible - Sega used the Z80 as one of the Megadrive's sound chips, this being the same chip as used for the CPU in the Master System. All the Master System Converter does on the Megadrive is allow you to plug Master System carts in, the BC is handled entirely by the console. And again it's not perfect - F16 Fighting Falcon on the Master System (IIRC) doesn't run on a Megadrive.

In my exhaustive* tests, the only one I found that didn't work was Alien Resurrection.



*tried a few here and there

All models

These games are incompatible with all models of PlayStation 2.

* Fighter Maker
* Final Fantasy V (Playstation 2 users can play this game, but sometimes experience a graphical error when saving)
* Grandia (Game is prone to random freezing. Setting the sound to Mono instead of Stereo reduces, but does not eliminate, problems)
* Judge Dredd
* Monkey Hero
* Mortal Kombat Trilogy (only the "Greatest Hits" version works on SCPH-50000, but even then the game freezes when the player wins the arcade mode)
* Poy Poy 2
* Tomba! (may work on later models of the older PS2, also works on PAL)

[edit] SCPH-30001

The SCPH-30001 has problems running these games:

* Legend of Dragoon
* Lunar Silver Star Story
* Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete
* Metal Gear Solid: Special Missions
* Final Fantasy Tactics

[edit] SCPH-75001 and probably SCPH 77001

These games are incompatible with this specific "slim" model (manufactured since 2004).

* 102 Dalmatians: Puppies to the Rescue
* Akuji: The Heartless
* Barbie: Race and Ride
* Broken Helix
* Bubsy 3D
* Driver
* The Hive
* Hooters: Road Trip
* In Cold Blood
* Jampack Vol. 2
* Land Before Time: Great Valley Racing Adventure
* NFL Xtreme
* NHL 2000
* NHL 2001
* NHL Blades of Steel 2000
* NHL Rock the Rink
* One (video game)
* PO'ed
* Powerboat Racing (VR Sports)
* Rascal
* Rush Down
* Sentient
* Speed Punks
* Summoner
* Super Puzzle Fighter 2 Turbo
* UFC: Ultimate Fighting Championship
* Worms

--

Clearly not exhaustive since Alien Resurrection isn't on there.

Either that or my copy is duff I suppose, although I've owned it from new.

Terracon's not on there either. A bloody Sony-published game, too (it was Sony diverting every single penny of advertising money that meant, despite it getting >90% in all the mags, that it didn't sell. And so the developer, run by Mr Dare Devil Denis, went under).

Oh no, not Bubsy.