Website design

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2009 20:21

Could anyone, if they have the time, offer up a few pointers on how to tidy up the code on this, please?

http://www.trelawney-alliance.moonfruit.com/

it would be much appreciated.

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

Quickfire tips:

- Comma-separate your keywords.
- Get your CSS into an external document. (Scripts, too.)
- Replace the divitis in the external links with a list.
- Uncaps headings and use CSS instead, unless you hate blind people.

I'd also strongly recommend hitting the site with a non-ugly stick.

EDIT: Having looked at some of the other pages... ugh. Whose project is/was this? It's like 1995 all over again with a home page that has nav that's then stripped from the other pages, meaning you go back to the sodding home page to go anywhere else.

andyb · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 489

I *think* moonfruit is a cms that generates it's own code, so I don't think you'll be able to change it much, if at all?

kalmar · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2009 20:42

Um, yeah. Scrap it and cut and paste the content into a new CMS with a nice template.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

Is it an Amstrad PCW fan page? Because the last time I saw that much green I was using one!

Bobbyaro · **Joined:** 18th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 11902

Turn off Javascript in your browser. Improves it no end.

With JS enabled

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

Attachment:

js2.JPG

Without JS enabled

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

Attachment:

JSwith.JPG

Also, is that Comic Sans I see there?

ZOMG Spoiler! Click here to view!

Attachment:

jswo.JPG

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Heh.

"We don' wahn none o' them ent-from-round-'ere-ers an' their metal 'orseless carriages round 'ere, thankee ver' much"

Bobbyaro · **Joined:** 18th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 11902

Quote:

We are a voluntary, non political group who are concerned that our local housing needs are being ignored by Central Government and is being dictated by the South West Regional Assembly.
We feel that it is the local planners and the local councillors who we democratically elect to speak on our behalf are the ones who should determine the need for local homes, and build accordingly.

Eh? So Central Government is ignoring you, and your needs are being dictated by your local assembly who you elected and you feel they should determine the need for local homes? What are you moaning about then?

MaliA · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2009 20:52

Should I link this thread to the thread which amde me ask for help, when i described it as

Quote:

That's a ***** terrible website. Looks like a chimp on crack knocked that up in between throwing faeces at tourists.

No credibility at all with that.

?

Or not?

As I offered to help give them some tips. rather than give them money.

Well, I thought I'd subcontract and get you lot to do it, but anyway.

Grim... · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2009 20:54

Jesus Christ. In all honesty, they need to throw that site away and start again.

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Bobbyaro wrote:

Quote:

We are a voluntary, non political group who are concerned that our local housing needs are being ignored by Central Government and is being dictated by the South West Regional Assembly.
We feel that it is the local planners and the local councillors who we democratically elect to speak on our behalf are the ones who should determine the need for local homes, and build accordingly.

Eh? So Central Government is ignoring you, and your needs are being dictated by your local assembly who you elected and you feel they should determine the need for local homes? What are you moaning about then?

But but but they're going to build 11,100 homes over a twenty year period! How on earth could Cornwall cope with such a sudden influx of Others? It took them 100 years to get used to the idea of washing, so how on earth could they be expected to deal with change of this magnitude!!11!!

kalmar · **Posted:** Wed May 06, 2009 23:05

Oh the humanity.

Hugh · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 1:20

If you post the co-ordinates, I'll blast it from my orbiting space platform.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 9:48

Thanks, I'll pass the information along.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 9:56

From (somewhere else - Ed):

Quote:

Link the styles to a separate style sheet instead of doing it inline. Other then that the site could use a pretty large rework

Quote:

You could make a fairly simple artistic website with some photoshop brushes an simple understanding of CSS. Also attempt to use smaller font for stuff (14px) and avoid using multi color divs to hold your text, for example http://www.trelawney-alliance.moonfruit ... 4533190662 could be done using one div and alligning the pictures throughout some helvitica 14px text. You could also make the pictures smaller so they can be used as a side text with links to the larger picture.

Quote:

I think u may have made the ugliest website ive ever seen.

Quote:

wish i could help more but only thing i could provide is the green (or whatever it, fuck being colorblind) and background stripes hurt my eyes a lot

Quote:

Website looks better with noscript on.

Quote:

You need a complete redesign.

Quote:

There are times when a website is just so bad that it actually does the cause it promotes more harm than good. This is one of those times.

Quote:

I mean, I don't want to come off like an angry Your Country's Got Talent judge, but where is the visual consistency? Consistency of colour, font, text alignment, greater page layout, they're all completely lacking. It's like there's been no planning put into this site whatsoever, as if whoever put it together has just completely made everything up as they go along.

Bizarrely, the code underneath isn't as ugly as I feared, indeed, the first page - shockingly - appears to completely validate. Consolation points for that at least, although there's still a lot of unnecessary scripting going on for something as critical as site navigation.

If I was still teaching, I would show this site to my students as an example of what not to do in just about every regard. The only people who have any right to take pride in a site like this would be the designer's grandparents, and even then only if this is the designer's first site ever.

Tarm is right; nuke this site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure. Then, sit down and start again, this time with a solid plan first.

BikNorton · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 10175

Quote:

helvitica 14px text

Or maybe some 10pt text in a sans-serif. Pixel-specified fonts are the suck.

itsallwater · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 10:19

or just steal a template (AKA Open Source):
http://www.oswd.org/

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 10:20

BikNorton wrote:

Quote:

helvitica 14px text

Or maybe some 10pt text in a sans-serif. Pixel-specified fonts are the suck.

em is your friend.

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

Grim... wrote:

BikNorton wrote:

Quote:

helvitica 14px text

Or maybe some 10pt text in a sans-serif. Pixel-specified fonts are the suck.

em is your friend.

@BikNorton—Absolutely no-one with any sense uses pt in style sheets, unless targeting print.

@Grim...—Most of the designers I know are moving back to px. The reason is that all modern browsers happily use it and have a full-page zoom, with the exception of WebKit. However, Safari 4 will have this, and I'll bet the next Chrome update will also. To cater for IE6 users, you can over-ride with the 62.5%/em combo if you feel the need.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 11:00

Man, they're pissed off at me now. And Bobby. And Mr Chris.

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 11:02

CraigGrannell wrote:

@Grim...—Most of the designers I know are moving back to px.

As am I, TBH.
I am properly annoyed that I am, though - I got really good at building sites that work properly when you resize the text.
Stoopid modern browsers.

kalmar · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 11:02

Good. They're clearly idiots.

BikNorton · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 10175

It's years since I did web stuff. Either way, px is bad so I'm claiming victory.

Bobbyaro · **Joined:** 18th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 11902

MaliA wrote:

Man, they're pissed off at me now. And Bobby. And Mr Chris.

Not only is their website utter bobbins, their arguements are flawed and they clearly don't understand that a community cannot live in isolation else it stagnates. These NIMBY types annoy me, I can understand being annoyed if someone is building a nuclear reactor in your back yard, but not if someone is saying, "This community has no money and no young people and no jobs, lets make some of all by building houses, causing jobs, attracting young people to an area." It is not as if they are going to build 11,000 homes in Trelawny, they will be all over the South West, over 10 - 20 years. Most of these people moaning will be dead when this pans out!

kalmar · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 11:18

Inbred, backward, NIMBY idiots.

SkyKid · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 98

InbredbackwardNIMBYidiots.com

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

MaliA wrote:

Man, they're pissed off at me now. And Bobby. And Mr Chris.

Ha!

Excellent. Hello Cornwall! All ur holiday cottages are belong to us.

CraigGrannell · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 1639

BikNorton wrote:

It's years since I did web stuff. Either way, px is bad so I'm claiming victory.

Is that in the same way Labour's claiming victory over the Gurkha fiasco? Sorry, chap, but even way back in the 1990s, pt was a bad thing to use on the web. The only people who ever used it were print designers who didn't realise that pt doesn't work online as a measurement. And I don't think px was ever 'bad' per se—it's just that IE's engineers argued against the W3 spec for years (that px was a relative unit), until finally relenting for IE7. Therefore, designers avoided it because Microsoft were twats, not because the unit was bad in itself.

@Grim...—Same here regarding ems, but I certainly won't be sorry to see that method go. It was an ugly, annoying workaround that beat % in terms of consistency but still threw up occasional problems. px just works, and now there aren't any issues regarding it. (In fact, the way current browsers now work, it makes more sense to use fixed layouts and px for fonts.)

Grim... · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 13:31

Actually having read some of the forum and seen what their aims are, I'll be damned if I'm going to offer any advice. What a bunch of bigoted cocks.

First post:

Quote:

THE MAYOR OR CAMBORNE IS CALLING A PUBLIC MEETING FOR THIS COMING TUEsDAY, THE 10TH OF FEBRUARY, TO DISCUSS AND OPPOSE THE MASSIVE HOUSE BUILD PLANNED FOR THE AREA, OF WHICH 82% WILL BE FOR INCOMERS.

Oh no! "Incomers"! Jesus fucking Christ - what year is this?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Grim... wrote:

Actually having read some of the forum and seen what their aims are, I'll be damned if I'm going to offer any advice. What a bunch of bigoted cocks.

First post:

Quote:

THE MAYOR OR CAMBORNE IS CALLING A PUBLIC MEETING FOR THIS COMING TUEsDAY, THE 10TH OF FEBRUARY, TO DISCUSS AND OPPOSE THE MASSIVE HOUSE BUILD PLANNED FOR THE AREA, OF WHICH 82% WILL BE FOR INCOMERS.

Oh no! "Incomers"! Jesus fucking Christ - what year is this?

Plus, how on earth could they be houses for anything other than "incomers", unless the existing residents are all expecting second homes to be given to them by the council?

Mr Russell · **Joined:** 6th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 12340

Mr Chris wrote:

Plus, how on earth could they be houses for anything other than "incomers", unless the existing residents are all expecting second homes to be given to them by the council?

Students or friends currently in shared houses.
People who live with their parents.
People currently in rented accommodation.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 13:39

It's oK. Someone videotaped the meeting and stuck it on you tube.

Curiosity · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 13:39

Mr Chris wrote:

Grim... wrote:

Actually having read some of the forum and seen what their aims are, I'll be damned if I'm going to offer any advice. What a bunch of bigoted cocks.

First post:

Quote:

THE MAYOR OR CAMBORNE IS CALLING A PUBLIC MEETING FOR THIS COMING TUEsDAY, THE 10TH OF FEBRUARY, TO DISCUSS AND OPPOSE THE MASSIVE HOUSE BUILD PLANNED FOR THE AREA, OF WHICH 82% WILL BE FOR INCOMERS.

Oh no! "Incomers"! Jesus fucking Christ - what year is this?

Plus, how on earth could they be houses for anything other than "incomers", unless the existing residents are all expecting second homes to be given to them by the council?

I'd love to turn up to the meeting and just talk like a character out of 'Lost'.

"The Others are coming! They're going to kill us all!"

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 13:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as3AYcL7fIM

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

Grim... wrote:

Actually having read some of the forum and seen what their aims are, I'll be damned if I'm going to offer any advice. What a bunch of bigoted cocks.

First post:

Quote:

THE MAYOR OR CAMBORNE IS CALLING A PUBLIC MEETING FOR THIS COMING TUEsDAY, THE 10TH OF FEBRUARY, TO DISCUSS AND OPPOSE THE MASSIVE HOUSE BUILD PLANNED FOR THE AREA, OF WHICH 82% WILL BE FOR INCOMERS.

Oh no! "Incomers"! Jesus fucking Christ - what year is this?

I drove through Camborne a year or so ago. I would imagine anyone without webbed feet and the normal quota of fingers would be classed as an "incomer".

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 13:45

chinnyhill10 wrote:

Grim... wrote:

Actually having read some of the forum and seen what their aims are, I'll be damned if I'm going to offer any advice. What a bunch of bigoted cocks.

First post:

Quote:

THE MAYOR OR CAMBORNE IS CALLING A PUBLIC MEETING FOR THIS COMING TUEsDAY, THE 10TH OF FEBRUARY, TO DISCUSS AND OPPOSE THE MASSIVE HOUSE BUILD PLANNED FOR THE AREA, OF WHICH 82% WILL BE FOR INCOMERS.

Oh no! "Incomers"! Jesus fucking Christ - what year is this?

I drove through Camborne a year or so ago. I would imagine anyone without webbed feet and the normal quota of fingers would be classed as an "incomer".

it's a shithole, no mistake.

I'm watching the youtube of their meeting. it's terrible.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 13:57

Quote:

My support for the Alliance is 100% +, but I can't attend rallies or meetings on Friday nights as I'm working.

kalmar · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 13:57

Why were you helping them fix their webshite again?

MrChris · **Joined:** 1st Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 30498

Mr Russell wrote:

Mr Chris wrote:

Plus, how on earth could they be houses for anything other than "incomers", unless the existing residents are all expecting second homes to be given to them by the council?

Students or friends currently in shared houses.
People who live with their parents.
People currently in rented accommodation.

They already live in houses though. God, some people. MOON ON A STICK.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

MaliA wrote:

Quote:

My support for the Alliance is 100% +, but I can't attend rallies or meetings on Friday nights as I'm working.

Mr L Skywalker - Camborne

FTFY.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 14:01

Reading through their website brings up this:

"We assume that the Government is in a bit of a panic over houses because of a failed policy over the last 12 years of having virtually open borders and now find that thousands of new homes are required. "

kalmar · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 14:03

What they need is a special Cambornian ID card, to positively identify and discriminate against outsiders.

JBR · **Joined:** 2nd Jun, 2008 **Posts:** 3306

MaliA wrote:

Reading through their website brings up this:

"We assume..."

Well, that's me convinced, and I have a new argument-technique ready to both begin and finish any controversial subject. Excellent - what with this, watching the Apprentice's Philip say "what I would say" before most sentences and receiving a letter that started "I am writing to say..." I feel I can retire with humanity's future articulation assured.

chinnyhill10 · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 15695

kalmar wrote:

What they need is a special Cambornian ID card, to positively identify and discriminate against outsiders.

I think looking at this lot it's pretty easy to spot the difference:

Kern · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 14:09

Are they aware that by restricting the supply of housing they are raising the cost of their own homes, thus preventing good local boys from being able to afford their first property?

kalmar · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 14:09

Kern wrote:

Are they aware that by restricting the supply of housing they are raising the cost of their own homes

Yes. Yes they are.

MaliA · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 14:15

chinnyhill10 wrote:

kalmar wrote:

What they need is a special Cambornian ID card, to positively identify and discriminate against outsiders.

I think looking at this lot it's pretty easy to spot the difference:

You do realise that there's 7 installments. There would have been more, but the battery ran out, or the memory card filled up.

Bobbyaro · **Joined:** 18th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 11902

Quote:

THE MAYOR OR CAMBORNE IS CALLING A PUBLIC MEETING FOR THIS COMING TUEsDAY, THE 10TH OF FEBRUARY, TO DISCUSS AND OPPOSE THE MASSIVE HOUSE BUILD PLANNED FOR THE AREA, OF WHICH 82% WILL BE FOR INCOMERS.

TBF, it depends on how big the "Massive House" is, I can't imagine a house for 10,000 people really fitting in with the ambience of Cambourne.

kalmar · **Posted:** Thu May 07, 2009 14:37

Bobbyaro wrote:

Quote:

THE MAYOR OR CAMBORNE IS CALLING A PUBLIC MEETING FOR THIS COMING TUEsDAY, THE 10TH OF FEBRUARY, TO DISCUSS AND OPPOSE THE MASSIVE HOUSE BUILD PLANNED FOR THE AREA, OF WHICH 82% WILL BE FOR INCOMERS.

TBF, it depends on how big the "Massive House" is, I can't imagine a house for 10,000 people really fitting in with the ambience of Cambourne.

There's 1800 places in it for the people of Cambourne though, he says so himself. I'm sure they'll all get along like a house on fire.

BikNorton · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 10175

CraigGrannell wrote:

BikNorton wrote:

It's years since I did web stuff. Either way, px is bad so I'm claiming victory.

Is that in the same way Labour's claiming victory over the Gurkha fiasco? Sorry, chap, but even way back in the 1990s, pt was a bad thing to use on the web. The only people who ever used it were print designers who didn't realise that pt doesn't work online as a measurement. And I don't think px was ever 'bad' per se—it's just that IE's engineers argued against the W3 spec for years (that px was a relative unit), until finally relenting for IE7. Therefore, designers avoided it because Microsoft were twats, not because the unit was bad in itself.

It's a good number of years since I've done any real web development (and it was all hobbyist anyway), but back then px fonts were bad because browsers wouldn't zoom them (properly). Obviously I was just confused about the recommended unit.

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