Be Excellent To Each Other

Ok so I'm soon to be entering the big wide world (unless I get accepted onto a PhD) and Im applying for Graduate schemes.

I know that on the application they like you to big yourself up, but, do you think that Honesty, or just saying "look at me I am so great" is a better way of doing it, as they'll probably have hundereds of applications and want to sift out either ones that are just really clever and have all the right experience and stuff, or will interested in something different, you know?

I'll be graduating with a 2:1 (hopefully) masters in Chemical engineering if that makes any difference

Both, I'd have thought.

So say "Im really great" but I dont want to work for your company for more than a couple of years and Im only applying due to the lack of jobs in where I really want to work, and I dont want to sit around unemployed and wait til there are jobs where I really want to work, so I'll for for you for a bit then leave as soon as there are jobs again.?

That couldn't possibly fail.

When I'm interviewing, I generally only care about four things:
1) That they know what we do - if they can't give me a pretty damned good summary of what the company does I'm not interested
2) That I like them, and they come across as "sharp" (quick answers is a good indicator)
3) They have experience, mainly so I can find out that:
4) Their references are good.

1 is the most important, followed by 4 (we normally talk to their references for quite a while on the phone, so get some good ones).
I'm far more interested in work ethic than skill - you can't teach someone that doesn't show up for work.

Telling them you're only planning on staying for a few years probably wouldn't hurt - three is a better number, I'd say. Don't tell them it's because you don't want their job, after all, you do.

Ta, Ive definatly got one good reference, as he'd never give a bad reference, but it's the getting to the interview process that's hard, and answering questions on why you want to work for a company that you dont want to work for really is what's hard.

If I manage to get any interviews I'll bone up on what the company does and bum their buzzwords like "innovation" and stuff like that.

It's just a horrificly time consuming process applying for anything.

Get in with a good recruitment agency. Are you in London?

Nope
Im in sheffield (at uni) and south east Kent is home. But I dont really want to work in london, I dont really mind where I work tho, but Im basically gonna apply for companies that have graduate schemes for graduate chem engers, P&G, Atkins, BAE, Novartis, etc... and a few PhDs

I know of a couple of people that work for novartis, if that's of any help.

Do you know what they do there?

I've spent the last 2 years of my degree aiming towards granulation and formulation of powders to make granules to make tablets. That sort of area is where I want to go into.

I think one is a computer person, and the other is a post doc in something or other. I'll email them henceforthwith, although, I suspect, the post doc person will be the most useful.

I'd probably suspect that to!
Ta!

We had some applications lying around our department for novartis, but it wasnt starting til next year, and was for people just going into their final year.... and it was in liverpool...

Do what my wife did (2.1 Hons MEng Chemical Engineering). Get me to pay for her to do 3 years of a PhD, then never finish it and go work for a bank.

Hahaha

I deffinatly do not want to work in a bank.

If I do a PhD it will be abroad and I wont have to finance it myself.

You could so make a mint in the illegal drug trade.

All you need is a food processor and some way to make tablets, so yeah I could

Drug dealer or advisor on Brainiac.

Why would you have to finance it yourself? The EPSRC funds almost all physical science PhDs in the UK, and includes a student stipend of approx £11k per year as part of that. Add on half-a-dozen hours of teaching time at £15-20 per hour each week, and factor in the fact this is all tax free, and you're usually on the equivalent to a £25k salary during a PhD. I certainly was.

Yeah I know that you get funding in the UK aswell, I got an EPSRC grant to do some research over the summer. But I'd much rather do one abroad, I think it would be more of an adventure

I did spent most of the day applying for one job today!
Only 3 more that Ive half done to to! D:

I know nothing of PhD schemes abroad, except for the American system, where seems to take 4-6 years to complete one.

Ive looked at a few in stockholm and it seems the same (ish) EU funding and you have to do a little work each week aswell.

Do you have a boner for loneliness? Because my PhD was pretty lonely (as no-one around me really understood what I was working on) without mixing a language barrier and culture shock in on top!

Haha, no, But 99% of the PhD students in my department on the stuff I wanna do are foreign so I see it would be the same anywhere really. That I think it would be easy enough to meet new people and places do shit for PhD students to meet and stuff and get friends

I used to tell students doing their UCAS personal statement thing to think about the skills they have learned as compared to the skills of people who'd done different subjects. Law students, f'instance, would have got used to assessing unique situations quickly with case studies, which an english or biology student wouldn't have done. Dont' make it all "I'm great", but make it "I can and want to do this".

Make it clear you're interested and capable, not just professionally, but personally. If you can, volunteer an example of a time you've been great at work, particularly if it was a problem you've spotted that nobody else did, and do it in the statement bit.

Make something the centre of your argument, and focus on it. It should be your srtength - initiative, planning, diplomacy, whatever. Use the other bits as supporting secondary skills, rather than simply making a list of things without emphasising any one - the later just sounds like you're going through the motions.

Honesty is best, but that doesn't mean you have to say "I'm hopelessly late for everything and have a fairly poor attitude to authority". Instead, if you have a deficiency of some kind, omit or play down that part, and play up a skill you have as extra-amazing to make up for it. Don't use lines like "Though I don't have experience in x, I am y, and z", because to some that sounds like YOU make a big deal out of not having x. Instead, make it "I am y and z, and interested in x".

Also, don't slip the word "arseholes" in there and hope nobody notices. They usually do.

Ewwwwww

Just came across these on P&G app

Describe a problem situation where you had to seek out relevant information, define key issues, and decide on which steps to take to get the desired results. Please include details of the context, the actions you took, and the results that were achieved
and
Please give a brief example of when you acted as a leader of a group of people, set direction for them, gained their commitment and led them to achieve outstanding results. Please include details of the context, the actions you took and the results that were achieved. (Max 950 characters including spaces).
and
Describe a time when you had to adapt to a change in order to achieve a better outcome. Please include details of the context, the actions you took and the results that were achieved. (Max 950 characters including spaces)

ewwww!

Those are distresingly common, tbh. The worst I've seen is the one reading something like "describe a situation where you had to talk to someone you didn't know". Are we supposed to record our every bloody polite conversation now and carefully transcribe exactly how we described the weather to that bloke at the bus stop, or what?

Keep yourself in a good mood - remember to have fun and vent - jobhunting is one of the most miserably awful experiences of modern life.

But still.....ewwwww!!!

The only time I've "led" anyone is when my mate dislocated his knee while playing frisbee at our annual "sports" day (which basically involves all Chem Engers in the country meeting at a different uni and getting hammered) and me being left in charge while my mate who was in charge went to the hospital with him. I, suitably hammered at this point, about 2pm or so, managed to get about 30 people to the pub the rest of them were at...

I dont think that will go down too well with a professional company!

/edit: and it's those sort of horrible questions that you spend hours racking your brain to find answers for that really put me off applying for companys, whatever happened to just CV and covering letter.

Oh, I agree. 95% of job applications and interviews are vile shit and everyone knows it except for the two fuckwads who make the decisions about them.

if only they had asked hat of the scriptwriters of red dwarf.

What about that time when you had that final year team project to do, and you took control of the group to ensure the presentations were prepared on time, to the correct standard, and you also checked how things wre progressing throughout.

Must've slipped your mind.

My only advice (one I didn't follow myself) is to send out 8,000 applications, just so you can get the one job you might make some money from.

My final year project is individual

I could bullshit about my 3rd year project but that would be lying as no-one needed to take control as we all worked like equally.

I spose lying about some bollocks like that is probably best tho.

Im only going to apply for ones that I wouldn't mind doing because even if I manage to get an interview for a company I dont want to work for, I really can't see myself being anything but honest and saying that I dont want to work for them, I just want some money as no-where else wanted me!

Also they ask if I know anyone that works for the company.

I do, but it's my ex and we havent spoke in 18 months or so...
I dont know whether it's a good thing or a bad thing that I know someone who works there. Should I just lie and say I dont?

Bullshit rote questions demand bullshit rote answers. Yes, you lie. Related: I hate big firm job application processes. I've never done an application form in my life and I've only faced down stupid "what is your greatest weakness" style questions in one interview out of, I dunno, a dozen or so.

Im not a good lier tho

Im really terrible at bullshitting aswell. I can't write massive amounts on nonsense, all my lab reports and project work I've done is straight to the point and involves no waffles at all

'
In my final year of university I filled out well over a hundred online job applications, with a text file of rote answers to each of the questions I'd come across. There were only about ten answers in there. Company wanted a hand-written application? I didn't apply.

Hmmm. I'm a scientist too, I know where you're coming from. But particulalry interviewing at big pharma firms you will be coming up against HR interviewers as well as technical types. You're going to have to be less squeemish about self promotion, I'm afraid. They will expect you to have smooth answers to stock questions.

Also, you should never lie totally anyway. You expand and exagarrate instead.

I'll type some advice up next time I'm at a PC.

Yeah, true it's all about selling yourself, P&G isnt a big pharma comp, but it'll be the same for all big comps with teh same bullshit questions on the applications. Just gotta make sure that there is enough there to get through the initial screening bit before they take people on for interviews etc...
It's just horrendously time consuming and soul destroying to do it.

Interestingly, I live very close to Novartis in Liverpool. So watch it...

Haha! - well the thing at novartis in liverpool didnt start til 2010 I think I'll be well served just applying for normal jobs as well as graduate ones, but the chances of a "golden hello" are a lot less with a normal job

I'd rather live and work down south

Finished P&G application only for a psychometric test to pop up, along with some other management nonsense. Now we just wait and see how it goes

*Narrows eyes* You're one of 'them' aren't you?



Strangely enough, my bro lives and works in sheffield.

So... watch your back.

Yes.... Im a big southern fairy

I don't mind the north, sheffield is ace, but I'd rather work a little closer to home, although any job will do for now

Get CV sorted as well as applying for Grad scheme (GRS) jobs. Get the CV out to the likes of SRG, etc. Send off speculative CVs to companies. Getting on a GRS is good, if you can, but everybody else wants to get on them as well, which kinda sucks. There will be a whole host of smaller companies which don't do GRS as such, but will be on the look out for graduates, often via recruitment agencies.

Also, give your formulation skills, send a CV off to Reckitt Benckiser in Hull (yes I know, Hull) but they pay well, and a good company to work for if you can get a permanent role. Try and get on the R&D side as well if you get anywhere. I used to work there so if you need any info, just ask.

Hull? Hull? Hull?!!?!!

Do you suggest sending an email or doing the online app form?

As there is the option for each... or should I do both?

you don't care that if it's a woman, if it has a nice cleavage or not? A friend of mine does interviews and this is one of his top priorities

I am neither a woman or have nice cleavage...

Looks like I'm doomed then

(.)(.)

boobies,.

Didn't someone try to sue Grim... for only hiring the attractive people as dancers, or am I confusing him with a tv show?

You are correct sir, although they sued the night club I worked in, not me personally (although it was me who chose the dancers). And they failed.
As for needing to have a good cleavage, well, I work in IT, so I've only interviewed men

BUT IT WAS MY DREAM YOU BASTARD!

I've heard your voicemail message from Hot Scandinavian Different Colour Eyes Girl, and seen her pic. LIES.