Be Excellent To Each Other

Is this joke Racist?



Malc

What about:



Malc

Lacist

They're shit jokes.

Is it racist? I would say yes. Is it offensive? No.

yes, but are they racist?

Malc

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7965058.stm

Malc

He's apologised for upsetting people, but not for the joke itself - the correct course of action, IMHO.

It comes down to context, but I can't imagine anyone saying jokes that bad without it having racist intent.

If someone told me that joke I would suspect they were racist or idiotic. And there would be an awkward moment.

Oh, seen the link now.

I wouldn't call them racist. A Pakistani name is a Pakistani name, it doesn't actually offer any judgement on Pakistan or the Pakistani people. It depends on the context they're told in, I say.

But surely it's just the setup for the pun?



That works without specifying a country, because Doug is a commonish name.

However, Mahatma is a Pakistani name, and therefore you need to specify the country the person is from for the joke (such as it is) to work properly.

Just as there are lots of people called O'something in Ireland so you need the "Irish" bit for the second joke to work properly.

Malc

Tchah. Apologise for living on the same planet as a bunch of pansy-arsed wussies who enjoy getting upset at the slightest hint of an opportunity? Fuck off, more like.

Malc

Oh and lets not forget:



Malc

I ranted about this on my blog when I was told about it earlier

More likely to be Indian.

I don't see "racism" in a comical context any worse than "fatism" or even stupidity. It annoys me when people get offended by these jokes or comments because they think that they should be offended by them. Get a grip, theres more important things in life than being upset because someone took the piss out of the way you looked, or where youre from or how you talk.

I'm glad I live in the Isle of Man as we tend to have a more liberal attitude to this kind of thing. It was only today that our audit partner called a guy from Malta "a smelly Arab"...it was very funny. Everyone knew it was a joke and that no malice was intended but our new colleague who has just moved over from Wales couldn't believe that he said it. He said if that was said in the UK you would probably be sacked which I find absolutely ridiculous.

I totally agree with Malc's Irish example.

That's more or less the size of it, personally.

They're all the same though, right?

Whereas that is, frankly, privilaged bullshit. Do I have to bother spelling out how monumentally arrogant and idiotic every part of that statement is?

They certainly share some common history and heritage.

Malc

Mahatma is a title. It's bestowed on people. Like it was on Mohandas Gandhi.

I did not know that before today, apparently it means something akin to Saint, before today I thought Mohatma was Gandhi's first name, I imagine a lot of other people did too.

Malc

Please do, as I cannot understand how the joke in question is any different from the jokes about people from Liverpool being thieves and people from Ireland being stupid. Its all PC bullshit if you ask me.

I deliberately chose an Irish joke that was not malicious.

It's just a pun based on Paddy being an Irish name, and O'Door being like an Irish surname.

But yes, in my mind, to an individual, there is no difference between a racist joke, a fatist joke, a sexist joke, an ageist joke, a gingerist joke.

If one is offensive they all are, if one is fine, they all should be fine.

Malc

Being called Mahatma isn't an insult, while being called a stupid thief is.

Would a thief really be insulted if you called them stupid? Surely they have to be stupid if they get caught?

Anyone got David Jason in the death pool?

I don't find that joke offensive. However, I can see certain sections of society finding it slightly insulting that a title like 'the great soul' would be bestowed on a cloakroom attendant.

As someone who likes comedy, I am insulted at the idea that 'Coat' is a Pakistani surname. It just doesn't make any sense. It's lazy comedy, and that's where my issue is.

1) Who're you to tell anyone what should and shouldn't make them uncomfortable or upset?

2) Your implication seems to be that since it's OK to abuse fat people it should be OK to abuse people on the grounds of their race. O RLY? x2.

3) We all get upset about stuff that's relatively petty in the grand scheme of things on a daily basis. To pretend otherwise seems dishonest. The "there's more important things in the world" train of thought ends with "How dare you be sad that your mother's died, don't you realise there's still an AIDS epidemic going on in Africa?"

4) For "PC bullshit" read "giving a toss about what other people feel, particularly people who've likely had to deal with abuse based purely on their ethnicity / sexuality / whatever on a regular basis their whole lives and are probably pretty fucking sick and tired of it by now".

I realise that "offended" is a dirty word around here. So to make it clear - I don't think people have a right not to be offended. Nobody's got a right not to hear things that upset them. That doesn't absolve us of any and all responsibility to appreciate how what we might think of as harmless words and actions could be interpreted by folk who don't share our outlook or life experiences. I'm not suggesting that we need to monitor how we express ourselves every hour every day, just that a little consideration - and not knee-jerking to "You're just looking for something to be offended by!" or similar when we do fuck up - goes a long way.

And that's all the tilting at windmills I'm doing for today.

I've just learned myself about Tiltling at Windmills.

What he said.

As have I.

Strangely though it keeps coming in out in my head to the tune of Chasing Rainbows by Shed 7.

Strangely, I had that god awful Adele song "Chasing Pavements" in my head.

I think the "Knock knock" version of the Mahatma joke is funnier than the cloakroom version, and also completely inoffensive.

Also, why wouldn't he be called "Ahgitya", or something. Y'know, so it makes sense.

My Hat My Coat

If one is okay, the other is okay. Fat, stupid, women, disabled people, redheads, whatever. Discriminate against no-one, or discriminate against everyone.

Grim... - gunning for equality.

It is a *very* poor joke and I suspect it actually relies on your audience being a bit racist and laughing at any mention of "pakistanis" in any context, even if they don't get it. No wonder there was an awkward silence. Ouch.

Still though, anyone can make a slip or say something stupid, no need to hang the guy or get snotty official statements from "groups".

President Obama did one last week, joked that his poor bowling skills were "like the special olympics or something". Dooh!

Unless it's POSITIVE discrimination I suppose. (MR SARCASTIC FACE)

"Yes sir, 20 highly qualified candidates. How will we choose? ... What's that sir, quotas? ... Choose a disabled, chinese lesbian? Ok, I'll try."

um, isn't that what I said?

Malc

I made that one up!

Malc

Quite possibly, sire. Rodafowa is the first person I've disagreed with today

[edit]Sire?

1) Not all prejudices are created equal. It's seems a bit facile to equate racism and homophobia (which people are still honest-to-God killed over on an honest-to-God daily basis) with fat acceptance or ableism, which in turn are probably another level to someone having ginger hair.

2) That being said, you're absolutely right. All discrimination can cause hurt and distress and is bad, m'kay? I thought the comment you quoted made it fairly clear I don't think either's OK and I'm firmly in the "Discriminate Against Nobody" camp.

"There's more important things in life than being upset because someone took the piss out of the way you looked, or where youre from or how you talk." Is one of the things that's more important getting a cheap laugh from an easy target?

[edit for clarity]

What he said.

There's an odd one out there. If you're fat it's (almost certainly) your own goddamn fault.

I think this makes a gigantic difference.



The only person doing that though, is you. No-one complained and you're the one trying to Daily Mail it up in here.



Again, Fat is, effectively a choice. The others are not. I have no problem with discrimination against anyone for choices they make, for things that are not their fault it seems less fair.

That said, take that to the logical extreme and you wouldn't be able to penalise someone in a job interview for being a complete fucking moron.



I really doubt you are, because I've never met anyone who is. You've never called anyone a "stupid" anything in your life?

Or charge people more for car insurance because they can't fucking drive.

I think when it comes down to it all you can say is that if you go around offending people mainly just for the sake of it then you are a fucking prick.

Typical knee jerk reaction from an astronomer.