Be Excellent To Each Other

Hmmm. Sometime in the week, the water feed into my toilet cistern started leaking from the joint between the copper household plumbing and the plastic stuff inside the loo. I left it with a tray under it until I had time to look properly. Today I tried nipping it a bit tighter, but it started to drip more; I'm concerned the plastic threading is split (it's a copper nut tightening onto plastic thread, so I didn't want to over-tighten). I figured I'd probably be removing the plastic bit and either rethreading the connection with PTFE tape or buying a new piece. I went off and turned our stopcock off until it bottomed out... but there is still some water coming through the taps, albeit at reduced pressure. Arses.

I actually have two stop cocks in a line, a lower one on the rising main which is stuck fast and a newer looking one a few inches above it. Looks like someone has fitted a second stop cock rather than repair the first. I'm about to go see if there is an external stop cock in the back garden (the rising main is at the back of the house) but these are 50s-era council built terrace houses; worse case is that the external stop cock cuts off all four houses in this run, not just mine.

So, am I calling a plumber tomorrow? I can't leave the toilet dripping but I don't dare tighten the fitting further without a way to cut the water off if I shear the plastic.

cant you just put some gaffer tape around it? Surely that solves all problems

This might seem a bit mad, but try loosening the copper to plastic junction slightly, it may slot back into a better place and seal. Also, wouldn't some silicon sealant do the trick? Irrelevant, it is probably a good idea to get a working stop cock at some point!

Are you sure the toilet is on the cold mains rather than the cold storage tank?

If it's the mains, get the water switched off properly. The valve is probably just a bit siezed so work it open and closed a few times and get a wrench onto the handle to give it a bit of extra help.
Even if it still flows a bit, leave a downstairs tap on (if your toilet is upstairs) and this will prevent water coming out upstairs.

If it's the tank, tie up the ballcock (fnar) and run the tap until the tank is empty.

Then dismantle the toilet fitting and see what's what. PTFE tape as you said, or if it's where it seals on to the cictern apply some silicone and then put it together again.

Oh, also, slightly silly question but are you sure it's actually leaking? With the cold weather recently my toilet cistern has some condensation on it and that's starting to run down the pipe which does look like it's leaking.

Turn water off, undo copper bolt, cover with PTFE tape, reseat the copper bolt. If it continues to leak I'd think about replacing either the internals of the cistern or the entire thing - it's neither difficult nor expensive this, Rich and a complete novice should be able to do it in a couple of hours.

Dave, did you miss the bit where I explained my stop cock isn't working? I'm comfortable working on the cistern mechanism.

Splash the cash for a plumber if you're too much of a drip to do it yourself

Yup, we have no cold or hot water storage. The previous owner removed the airing cupboard (to turn it into an ensuite... yes, really) and retrofitted a combi boiler, and all cold plumbing in the house is directly mains fed now. I can see the feed pipe running from the stop cock in the kitchen and into a boxed-off corner alongside the sewer downpipe, running to the bathroom directly above.

I had a quick look for the external stop cock earlier but couldn't find it. I might give my neighbour a knock and ask him if he knows where it is tomorrow.

Well, I dunno. The tap was a little stiff at first but I freed it off enough to turn by hand through about half a dozen turns. It really does feel like it's bottomed out at the end of the travel. It might be worth a try though.

Yeah, I thought of that, but there's still a bit of pressure in the upstairs taps. I've also been looking at pipe freezing kits -- they claim to be able to keep a narrow gauge feed pipe frozen for 20 min, which is probably enough to change the toilet fitting... although the toilet isn't really the bigger problem now, the stop cock is.

As I loosened the copper nut off the plastic pipe a little -- only about 15 degrees or so -- I started to get water escaping the joint under pressure. I strongly suspect the plastic pipe is cracked and only being held together by the copper nut. Ideally, I need to replace that part. I don't think scilicone will work unless I can dry the joint out.

Well, I might be under-selling it as a "drip"; it's losing about a pint a day!

Argh, yes, I'd be worried about it letting go completely and not being able to switch the water off now!

The rubber could have disappeared out of the stop cock which would prevent it seating.

This very scenario flashed infront of my eyes and I put all my tools down and backed slowly away immediately afterwards!

That makes sense. I'm not sure what they look like internally -- is it a brass shaft, projecting into the pipe, with a rubber fitting to complete the seal?

See, the fact that we have byzantine plumbing, two stop cocks and a water tank makes me incredibly grateful we have inline stop valves on every single outlet in the house.

This is no help to you of course, but made my life a lot easier when replacing the bottom washer on the cistern last year when it was leaking.

I'll trade this toilet inconvenience for the fact my house has double glazing and, at a rough count, around 40 electrical sockets.

Ah, see, we have three different sorts of electrical outlets. At least, I'm assuming the switch sockets with what looks like an aerial connection is some sort of electrical socket. I should look up what the fuck those are, at some point.

But yeah, double glazing. Phoeey.

You fixed your toilet yet, then?

Sort of - there's a flat disc on the end of the shaft and the washer is attached to that. This seals against a channel to prevent water coming "up" out of it, and then to the outlet.

Throwing a wild, crazy guess out there, I would suggest they are an aerial connection.

Doc, if you've got a combi boiler, you should have a stoptap just before the incoming pipes reach the boiler. Don't forget they've got a small tank inside that'll need to drain - some only for hot, some both.

Eh? Why do I need to drain the boiler to work on the cold water feed? It can't feed water back into the cold part, if that's what you're thinking. It can't feed back into the mains water, as it's disconnected from it, except when the filling key is in place.

They're not. And why would you have an on/off switch on an aerial socket? I'll take a photo tonight. They're quite old looking.

Yup. It'll be an accumulator actually. But there's a checkvalve between it and the mains (as well as the key thing).

Have you called a plumber yet?

Man, you must be tiny.

No. Asking around for a recommended local plumber. Debating about getting some freeze spray from Screwfix and fixing the toilet, then getting a plumber in to look at the stopcock next month after pay day.

Things like this were the one benefit of living in rented accomodation. Well, if you have a nice landlord who'll actually get stuff sorted quickly.

I live in rented accommodation and still have to fix stuff like this

Well, OK, that time the hot water tank split and came through the ceiling they got someone in for that, but otherwise...

My grandparents have things that sound similar at their bungalow. I think they are just really really old electric sockets. The probably aren't even connected up anymore (at least, you should probably hope not). I guess it was just laziness that stoppped them being taken out when the modern wiring was put in.

Those aerial socket things are a hang up for when electricity was transmitted by airwaves. You should be okay now, they have stopped broadcasting due to cutbacks.

I've still got the really old 3/4" pipe outlets in a couple of rooms from when electricity was actually steam powered. My parents still have the old flywheel in their cellar from when electricity came from the power station via a huge pulley and rope system. All that wrought iron and brass is probably worth a few bob now.

<suspicious look>

Squirt Plumbers to the rescue.

That sounds worryingly gynaecological.

In fact, I'm pretty sure Perkies has that on DVD.

Perkies's DVD collection is centered a little farther... south.

Spanish Squirt Plumbers?

Squirt Plumbing Ltd
_{Just leave the back door open - we'll be in and out like a flash}