Prayer Heals!

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 26080

... no, not really. But wondered what people thought of this story.

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A Christian nurse from Weston-super-Mare has been suspended for offering to pray for a patient's recovery.

Community nurse Caroline Petrie, 45, says she asked an elderly woman patient during a home visit if she wanted her to say a prayer for her.

The patient complained to the health trust about Mrs Petrie who follows the Baptist faith.

She was suspended, without pay, on 17 December and will find out the outcome of her disciplinary meeting next week.

Mrs Petrie, who carries out home visits in North Somerset, said she had asked the patient if she would like a prayer said for her after she had put dressings on the woman's legs.

The patient, believed to be in her 70s, refused and Mrs Petrie insists that she left the matter alone.

The sick woman contacted the trust about the incident and Mrs Petrie was challenged by her superiors.

We are always keen to be respectful of our patients' views and sensitivity as well as those of our staff

Mrs Petrie said: "The woman mentioned it to the sister who did her dressing the following day. She said that she wasn't offended but was concerned that someone else might be.

"I was spoken to by my manager. She said 'I've got a letter in one hand and an incident form in the other. You won't be able to work until we've investigated this incident'."

Mrs Petrie, who qualified as a nurse in 1985, said she became a Christian following the death of her mother.

"My faith got stronger and I realised God was doing amazing things in my life.

"I saw my patients suffering and as I believe in the power of prayer, I began asking them if they wanted me to pray for them. They are absolutely delighted."

A spokesman for North Somerset Primary Care Trust said: "Caroline Petrie has been suspended pending an investigation into the matter.

"She is a bank nurse and has been told we will not be using her in this capacity until the outcome of our investigation is known.

"We always take any concerns raised by our patients most seriously and conscientiously investigate any matter of this nature brought to our attention.

"We are always keen to be respectful of our patients' views and sensitivity as well as those of our staff."

Mrs Petrie says that she has taken advice from the Christian Legal Centre, which aims to protect the religious freedom of people who follow the Christian faith.

GazChap · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 18:22

Utterly ridiculous. The complainant even said herself she wasn't offended, this is a gross over-reaction on the part of her managers.

And this is coming from me, a staunch atheist.

kalmar · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 18:26

Yeah I couldn't make my mind up what to think about that one. On the one hand, you'd prefer a person treating you to believe in the power of medicine and science rather than fairies, but on the other hand it seems a somewhat mean and petty to throw the book at her. But on the other hand, you can't have medical workers going around vulnerable people recruiting for whatever batshit cult - where would you draw the line? But on the other hand, your old lady contingent typically would be delighted with that sort of thing, and it might indeed cheer them up and a positive attitude is half the battle.

Hmm,.

No, sorry, can't help you at all here

Rodafowa · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 18:29

They haven't thrown the book at her. They've suspended her while they investigate. Seems like a mountain being made out of a molehill on both sides, to be honest.

kalmar · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 18:32

Rodafowa wrote:

They haven't thrown the book at her. They've suspended her while they investigate.

But what I mean is, that's no doubt the full serious book-based procedure for what in this case potentially wasn't even really a complaint.

I dunno, maybe there's pre-existing rules and guidelines about this kind of thing and she's clearly breached them, in which case fair cop.

Doctor Glyndwr · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 32624

kalmar wrote:

On the one hand... on the other hand...on the other hand... on the other hand

The third one is usually called "the gripping hand", but I have no idea where this fourth hand comes from. I'd suggest you see a doctor, of atheistic or religious views.

I'm also mixed on this, but overall I think the health trust is doing the right thing. If a medical professional offered to pray for me, I'd pretty bluntly say "I'd quite like some fucking science please instead", and I'd certainly be annoyed; equally, were I a devout follower of Cthulhu or Scientology, I'd be annoyed at these false gods being thrust in my face.

Now, I accept she meant well and it was a pretty inoffensive request in itself. Perhaps it's unfair to give her any more than a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again -- but then again, that might be all that happens to her. The suspension thing is almost certainly simple standard practice when anyone is being investigated for anything and not a reflection of how serious or otherwise the case is being taken.

kalmar · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 18:36

Doctor Glyndwr wrote:

Now, I accept she meant well and it was a pretty inoffensive request in itself. Perhaps it's unfair to give her any more than a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again -- but then again, that might be all that happens to her. The suspension thing is almost certainly simple standard practice when anyone is being investigated for anything and not a reflection of how serious or otherwise the case is being taken.

Indeed, and immediately lawyering and newspapering up is a bit of an odd response to that.

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 26080

I mostly agree with Gazchap, but with some reservation.

See, I don't think that religion should come into the medical profession. Then again a nurse has more than once said that they'd pray for me to get wel. i can imagine how that would make some people uncomfortable - not only non-believers, but also inter-faith relations between professional and patient. That said I think that most people would either disregard it, or think it was a quaint and well-meant gesture.

However, I do think that because of the rare instances that it might be uncomfortable to a patient, religion and the offer of prayer shouldn't be given. This should have been told to the nurse and the incident made a note of and the nurse reminded of her duties and thinking about the varying beliefs of her patients.

What catches my eye, though, is the following:

Quote:

Mrs Petrie says that she has taken advice from the Christian Legal Centre, which aims to protect the religious freedom of people who follow the Christian faith.

Nobody is trying to take away her religious freedom at all - she has just been told it is inappropriate in a work setting, so this makes it seem that she is defending her right to let her religious beliefs affect the way she administers care. Whether this is the case or not I have no idea, but I suppose it is a consideration.

DBSnappa · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 18:41

Throw the book at her, what the Bible?
Could be worse, 1800 years ago she would have been thrown to the LIONS

Seriously fucked up this if it's as straightforward as it sounds.

kalmar · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 18:46

DBSnappa wrote:

Seriously fucked up this if it's as straightforward as it sounds.

Probably isn't though, given the immediate shouting about religious persecution..

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 26080

She has Previous.

Quote:

Petrie said she had been reprimanded over her faith before, in October, when she gave a homemade prayer card to an elderly patient.

Actually, I think that this is a tad on the strange side:

Quote:

She said she had seen her supplications have real effects on patients, including a Catholic woman whose urine infection cleared up days after she said a prayer.

Just because I dare say that is more science and medicine at play than her prayer. If she sees someone's infection clearing up as proof of her prayers having healing powers, then I would start to think that there is cause for concern.

Bobbyaro · **Joined:** 18th Apr, 2008 **Posts:** 11897

I find it hard to believe that any one is petty enough to be upset by someone offering to say a prayer for them, what ever their faith. If someone wishes me well enough to pray for me, then by all means do it. Whether I believe in it or not is irrelevant.
I imagine that this nurse, who is a community carer, is not stupid enough to be randomly throwing this at people, and that she asks this of people in an attempt to aid them psychologically, as well as through divine intervention.
However, I doubt this is a straightforward as that, and it is entirely possible she has been overly forthright in her theological ministrations, and caused offence. As such, she must be stopped, imagine the harm she could do!

kalmar · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 19:12

Mimi wrote:

Quote:

She said she had seen her supplications have real effects on patients, including a Catholic woman whose urine infection cleared up days after she said a prayer.

Just because I dare say that is more science and medicine at play than her prayer. If she sees someone's infection clearing up as proof of her prayers having healing powers, then I would start to think that there is cause for concern.

Yeah, I'd probably suspend her pending an investigation. If she's a reasonable person and has done nothing wrong, she can sit tight for a few days, surely.

Malc · **Posted:** Tue Feb 03, 2009 19:22

http://z1.invisionfree.com/forums/world ... opic=10843

http://www.notbbc.co.uk/forums/pg=print ... t_id=29020

More info (that I don't have time to go into) at those links

Basically she's been warned before and still has done it.

Malc

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 26080

Oh no, I posted already existing WoS material discussion. Fail

Dr Lave · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5979

The WoS link is pretty important and sums up my feelings on it:

They've already said don't bring up your faith unless they do. Which she ignores.

Hopitals higher chaplins. Allowing religion to mix with evidence based medicine is a recipe for disaster. It needs to be kept secular. Saying that this isn't a newsworthy story.

Quote:

Tom Camfield got it right there.

Frankley, she's in a position of authority so she really, really shouldn't be using it to promote her religion. And as Tom shows she is really, really doing that.

There are like a billion churches to do that for those who want it. And most hospitals already have chaplins - who are specifically separate from the NHS for a reason.

Sorry thr0b but it has nothing to do with the off chance of someone being offended. It's about a secular organisation not being seen to promote a specific religion.

I have a few friends who work for the NHS - and they get crazy shit. For instance one guy rang my friend up and said could you explain to my wife (who was from africa) that their childs autism wasn't caused by a spell.

In that kind of enviroment - it is very, very important for the NHS to remain neutral.

Pundabaya · **Joined:** 30th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 5016

Dr Lave wrote:

chaplins

I don't think I'd ever be comforted by a small man in a bowler hat and toothbrush moustache turning up if I was seriously ill

Mimi · **Joined:** 27th Mar, 2008 **Posts:** 26080

Dr Lave wrote:

Hopitals higher chaplins.

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