Be Excellent To Each Other

Why, to some people, is being gay such a bad thing? I know a few people who are really clever in all other respects, but if they found out that you were gay, they would disown you, and probably beat you up too. I really don't get it.

Why is it such a big thing for some people?

Conversely, why are camp people so fucking annoying? I really can't stand camp people. Prime example Alan Carr. FUCK OFF.

Is that a dichotimy? (sp?)

Malc

Nah, it's a dickinme.

I think the reason is that people perceive gay people as being abnormal. When they voice their opinions to that effect, people go "THEY'RE NOT ABNORMAL, THEY'RE PEOPLE".

Of course, they are abnormal, there's no getting away from that fact. No amount of political correctness gone mad is going to change that.

However, you can be abnormal and still be a great person to be around. Men in particular, especially the "hard" blokes, the "tough skinheads" get a bit antsy around gay people, as if they're scared that the gay guy is going to try and "convert" him. Which, frankly, says to me that they're confused about their sexuality as they wouldn't be scared of being "converted" if they knew there was no way it would happen.

856 bananas

Yeah, it's people who are threatened.

As someone who has been chatted up by an gay, I have to say i found it uncomfortable, but more from the unwanted attention than anything else. I'm not a massively social person at the best of times.

A Gay would be unable to, say, repair a carburetor. That's a drawback right there.

It's "an gay".

Silent H is it?

They're all silent aitches by the time I've finished with them.

Maybe it's because campness seems like such an affectation, seeming really rather put on in the extreme cases -say Alan Carr (although I find him quite funny actually). Some people are naturally a bit camp and mincey -without necessarily being gay- and that's not so annoying.

I've had an gay flirt with me once. I found it quite funny actually, although a tad embarassing too (like Mr. Russ said, the unwanted attention).

Of course it depends how you define abnormal. If you define it as meaning a significant proportion (~10%) of any and every mammalian species then I would agree with you.

However if you mean abnormal as in not a normal part of nature then I would disagree. What with homosexuality being seen as a ESS (Evolutionary stable strategy) in almost all large life forms.

This book is a great example of how the abnormal is an essential part of any mammalians requirements to be a successful species.

I'm sure GazChap meant the former, as it was put so matter of factly.

Presumably the ratio of 1 in ~10 is the ESS for humans?

I always thought the ESS of being gay (in non humans) was "I'm never gonna fuck a girl, so I might as well be gay, so at least I get some action to stop me going mad" which doesn't really ring true with being gay, as lots of gay people are "fit" "hot" "attractive" or whatever.

Malc

Imagine if Stephen Hawkings was gay, but unable to tell anyone. His mates'd all take him out to Spearmint Rhino on his birthday and pay for lapdances for him, shouting things like "Go on Stevie H! Fill yer boots my son! E=mc²!" cos they're physicists, like. And all the time he's going. "no. do not do this to me. no this is assault. please help me. i do not like this", but of course they think it's interference from the local taxi rank. "Oh, that taxi driver's getting robbed again. Funny how it always happens when we're here." they'd say. It's a travesty. Poor gay Stephen Hawkings. We ought to rescue him or something.







ABDUCT! that's the word i was looking for.

One way or another, I think to be a gay you really have to love cock. And probably balls. Also, loving ass really opens up a lot of opportunities fucking-wise.

Not loving, or indeed being repulsed by these things is a reason people hate gayness, as is repressed gayness, fear of gayness, boredom of gayness and media overexposure to gayness. And often a lot of the time I'd imagine abuse by someone of the same sex as you will no doubt lead to well-honed hatered of the pink oboe piper's platoon.

Also the Bible says it's wrong. And no-one ever makes shit jokes about the 'straight plague'. Arse-jousting has a long history of bad press. If god hated gayness he'd never have invented boarding school, the seventies and E.

As for campness - in principle I really fucking hate camp, though not always in practice. Campness doesn't lend weight to anything you try to express, it reduces you to a caricature of a gender you simply aren't (dysphoria is a different story) and looks shit. Stop flapping your arms around, stop denying your voice broke and stop reading Heat just because you want a penis in your mouth.

Proper gayness is the gayness of Oliver Reed, Stephen Fry, of Sparta, of Saul Tigh and Bill Adama. Not this flouncing nancy lark. In fact don't even touch each other, just stomp around drinking hard liqour, eyeballing one another and slamming furniture around tensely.

I hope for his sake he's a bottom, you'd get more fluid runing down your back than your colon, just from the side of his gob if he was on top.

You know how girls get you to buy them drinks even if they're not going to sleep with you? Practice copying that, then get thee to a gayish bar. Free night out, probably some free drugs as well (then run like fuck).

/edit right that's three consecutive posts in the gay thread. I'm going to have to go away and think about this.

Children.

There is a big difference between gay people and people like Mr Garrison.

M'gay?

I like most gay people-I just dislike it when I don't like a gay person in particular and then his friends tell him that and he's a bit like, 'ooooh! You are SOOO like, homophobic!' No...mate, I am youaphobic. It doesn't matter whether they are straight/bi or into tree's, if I don't like someone it's because I don't like *them*

They are VERY cleeky aswell, drives me a little scatty. Most of my friends who are gay are veru UN-camp, you wouldn't know they were gay at all-until we were watching a film together (think it was Billy Elliot...) and he cried he said, 'Oooh gods-I've minced up' which is like fucked up I think-but he's a great guy! He reminds me a lot of Mr.Fry-whom I LOVE.

I just don't like the 'look at my glittery handbag and sequins and these gawjus shoesies,' as it worries me-I don't particularly like women who are like that, so it stands the same.
But then...I like Alan Carr-so it's a bit 50/50 *shrugs* again, it's the person rather than their sexual preferences.

A lot of men feel threatened by a gay man, they are a hit with women, mostly know what to say at the right time, go everywhere with you (shopping etc) so I dunno, maybe men feel they are awkward next to gay people, no idea

This. I've always found campiness very annoying (although admittedly I haven't really known anyone personally who's more than slightly camp for ages). Precisely as you say, it seems like an affectation.

I can imagine that if I were gay I would find Alan Carr infuriating. Oooh, look at me, I'm so campy because I'm gay! Ooh, ho ho, naughty, hee hee lewd remark with a twinkly smile! Fuck off, more like. It doesn't help that something about him just screams "I am often a complete tosser in real life" to me.

In a few decades, entertainers like him will be to gay men what blackface performers are to black people today.

Anyway, homosexuality is a big deal to loads of men because they haven't had the balls (fnarr) to confront their own homosexual tendencies, which virtually everyone in the world has to some degree. The irony is that by utterly refusing to admit it, it makes it seem like a bigger deal than it really is. Hence, their natural curiosity is sublimated into extreme discomfort, fear and often outright hatred.

Plus it's all tied in (sadly, and stupidly) with silly notions of masculinity being synonymous with heterosexuality. It's doubly ridiculous when you consider that thanks to internet porn, most men have probably spent more time looking at erect cocks than they have any part of a woman. In fact, that most likely contributes to it - you might tell yourself you're getting off on the woman, but you're still wanking while watching a naked man get off. Your brain is incredibly good at finding even really unlikely associations, so it's hardly a stretch to think that this doesn't help the situation much.

But anyway. Who wants to hear about men really liking lesbian porn because they know the women aren't really into it and are only doing it for the money/because a man said so?

Incidentally, this made me laugh lots. Now come here and give me a kiss.

Only if you cuddle me afterwards.

I have no problem with Gay people. None at all. Couple of my friends are gay.

However, as I pointed out with my post up there ^ there is a big difference between a gay person and someone like Alan Carr who acts on shock value.

I used to work with many homosexuals, one of whom was disgusting. Being gay wasn't enough for him he had to take it upon himself to yell out "I LOVE SUCKING COCK" and go into the problems he had from having intercourse (his arse, basically).

And thus it was agreed that maybe he wasn't gay at all and just purely craved attention. Either that or he was gay and just a complete arsehole but the seperation was definitely made.

Other gays at work were fucking awesome. Really nice blokes who dressed well and were kind and courteous.

Poof.

I cannot believe you just wrote that.

As a side note, Alan Carr is a decent chap. He is camp, but not as camp as on TV - he's way smarter and funnier than his TV/stage persona, which is purely exaggerated for the cameras.

It made me smile.

Gay isn't derived from Latin (although to be honest, those Romans were all fruity buggers).

Racist.

You're confusing it with "ghey".

Having thought about it, the worst thing about being gay is sucking other mens's cocks.

I always been of the opinion that the best person to give you a blowjob would be a guy. I mean - he knows what he's doing.

Oliver Reed was gay?

So that's how you amassed your fortune!

What are you doing on Saturday?

I have often wished I was gay as I find men a lot easier to understand than women but then I do enjoy the challenge so maybe not.

I worked with a very camp guy once and I found him to be very amusing. However I hate Alan Carr with a passion as he is an utter cunt.

Well what I've read is really complicated (for me at least) and probably a bit beyond me to regurgitate (from memory) but I'll have a go.

I think the first thing to realise about ESS is that if you can't work out why the situation works thats your problem and not the ESSs. But nevertheless being gay has been put forward to a way to manage population survivability. The basic idea being that if you have a species with a certain amount of help between relatives then after a while it is better for more adults to help bring up other children than produce their own. Thus if a gay bird helps bring up its sisters chicks then a 1/4 of it's genes are being passed along and that may be more efficient than that bird trying to raise additional kids. And thus 'gay genes' propagate and spread.

That also ties in with the fact that your chances of being gay increase dramatically for each older sibling you have.

It can also work as a population growth control. A species that pumps out gay children after say 2 or 3 young are born may be more successful at managing the available resources than one that keeps breading exponentially. But that is veering towards kin selection - which opens another kettle of fish.

If you argument to that is 'why didn't evolution just turn off their sexuality then - like with drone ants' then thats a good question. But evolution always takes the path of least resistance, and presumably switching part of the process in the womb from one sex development to the other was probably easier, than evolving an entirely new method of circumventing it.

Maybe they just like the taste.

Didn't The Brass Eye prove what was wrong with Gays? They attract sharks and enemy radar.

Dammit, I was coming in to say that.

They also 'muck about', insist on eating at the captain's table, and nudge people when they're shooting.

Oliver Reed was gay?

Possibly bisexual Meems, he had a bit of a rep for going to any length to secure a role.

Actually, I think you could get used to a lot with regard to man love but I don't think I would ever ever ever find snogging a man pleasurable. I've a couple of gay friends who are a bit full on with regard to the sex parties and I've made the shocking mistake of dropping in at innappropriate times - I now know that when they party it tends to run for days, so dropping by at 11am on a Saturday morning could lead to witnessing several naked men going for it like rutting dogs. It was one of the few occasions I was slightly lost for words and mumbled an excuse and left immediately.

or not knocking boots with women?

Grim... I admire your honesty and technique.

You've really got it licked.

You shouldn't - I suck.

I check out guys if they look attractive; pretty sure I'm not alone there. I did wonder as a teenager if I was perhaps bisexual, but quickly came to the realisation, after playing it out in my head, that going ahead with anything physical with a guy repulses me.

My girlfriend is bisexual though. I'm not complaining at that.

Pretty normal, to be honest. We're wired to look at anything that's aesthetically pleasing, be it male, female or architecture. The people who really make me laugh* are the ones who refuse to ever give an opinion on another man's attractiveness, or lack of, because they're manly straight men, like, and they don't know. Yeah. Sure. You lack a basic sense of aesthetics? Of course you do.

*with patheticness-pity, obv.

I can tell when a man would be viewed as attractive, but I still think it's a fundamentally broken concept. Women are beautiful, artistically formed creatures - men just aren't. The scrotum is clear evidence of that. Hence I think all women and gay men are crazy.

Rubbish. Women are just as ridiculous looking as men. Normal human breasts can and often do look just as crap as scrotii: http://www.007b.com/breast_gallery_A.php